1 minute understand DT50

[Finale]

Jian, I think he takes issue mainly with you mentioning some max scanning angle without mentioning there will be x amount of overspill, not you naming the scanners like this.

I don't have an issue with you naming these DT50 myself. I didn't have an issue with Xbox naming one of its consoles 360 to look bigger than "Playstation 3" and I don't have much issue with literally everyone making memory storages having less than 2,4,8,16,32,etc. GB of actual usable memory... or Pangolin naming their scanner "506", for that matter. Biggest number of them, good marketing, I take no issue. Yes, I know there's a reason behind that number, Microsoft said the same about "Xbox 360", spare us the explanation.

[rns0504]

I agree that all vendors should be held to a higher standard around here, and anyone called out on questionable claims. I fully expect anything I post to be held to a higher standard and level of scrutiny.

I just dont understand why I don't have the 'right' to comment on others claims... simply because of my employment. It is up to everyone to keep each other honest

I've noticed on other pages for another industry i am deeply involved in, many people tend to dislike any time representatives of the large company post, and they continually get "shit on" until they leave and no longer contribute to the community. Then everyone wonders where they went. Good case in point - My second job, I work for Monster Jam Monster Truck shows. This past weekend, one of our drivers pulled off the first ever "front flip" in competition and immediately the speculation came out with whether or not it was intentional or luck or a combination.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxOViZm3ih8

After a few days of this, the driver chimed in saying he knew what he wasw attempting and had been waiting for the opportuniry for a while. He was instantly shit on, called a liar, told he didnt know what he was doing, that it was all luck, etc. And people wonder why our drivers and other employees rarely come out of the shadows to interact with fans... Anyone noticed BB hasn't posted at ALL this year? I wonder why...

I have nowhere mentioned our own offerings until being called out on not offering a turnkey solution, to which i replied that a solution is available... yet then I am called out on plugging and marketing. Please show me where I am "advertising my own shit"

_____________________

THanks Chris for the kind words. I just want everyone to be kept honest, to keep a level playing field for everyone. Lets let the consumer decide if beam clipping is important or not, rather than the manufactuer deciding for us
____

Jian, I have no problem with your scanner. I haven't commented on the speed (because I dont have any, though I am more than willing to purchase some at full price...), but your speed claims are typically accurate, and actually appreciate your comment

There is no a standard answer this question.
What the speed at full angle?That depend on your shows and graph.
So we have a suggest:listen and touch.
If you make a show the scanner of noise not natural,set lower speed or angle.
At the same time touch the scanner mount,if just a little then just going,if very hot stop right now,don't let the galvo too hot.

DT50 alway lower heat than DT40,this is an important merit.

Yes, angle and content (waveform and such) and heat removal ability plays a huge part in speed. It is very hard to just throw a number out there.

Also have no problem with the naming convention

The only issue I have is with the mirror sizing. If you need the help, I would be happy to characterize your mirror sets for you and let you know what they really can and can not do, on my own time, for free. Your 5mm mirror set is a very good mirror set for a 40 degree angle. I would have no issues if it was advertised as "5mm 40 degrees, can scan up to 85 degrees with spilling". That would be a very honest claim which nobody would have any problems with.

If it would be helpful, I can send you a free copy of our book on Laser Scanning, which there is a large section on mirror sizing. Please let me know if this is interesting to you.
______

Finale, (whoever you are.... easy to hide behind a keyboard and screen name), Man I'll just accept that you're hell bent on hating and disagreeing anything I will ever post and move on. If you're literally going to question my credibility because I don't own a device that allows me to edit my post, I'll just come to the concluson that we will never be able to have a reasonable relationship, and I'm perfectly OK with that.

I've seen your "spare me the explanation" comment a few times and have learned it is synonomous with "I'm going to spew some BS and don't want to be called on it".

I dont really care too much whether or not you want an explanation, but since you have yet again called us out on something with literally no basis in fact, you can ignore the rest of this post and I will explain for everybody else listening

The VRAD 1510 actuator is named for its physical dimensions. 1.5" Wide. 1.0" Tall, hence VRAD 1510.

The VRAD 516 is named for its physical dimensions. .5" Diameter (wide), 1.6" hip to front face.

The VRAD 506 is named for its physical dimensions. .5" Diameter (wide), 0.6" hip to front face.

Want to take a wild guess where the Compact 506 name comes from? XD

[JohnYayas]

I don't see other companies jumping into every thread about Pangolin scanners and asking where their drivers are and why they are so slow to deliver them. But they could.

[rns0504]

John, if you need drivers, please give me a call at the office and I will be happy to discuss. Not going to advertise on Jian's thread. However I have three different models of C506 drivers in stock right now which can be delivered with scanners rather quickly. We're just not advertising this right now.

[rns0504]

Rick, See the two screenshots below, this is the DT50BB mirror set with a 10mm Beam, at 40 degrees optical




HOWEVER, In fairness to Jian, he DID say this mirror set is for 7mm-8mm. Screenshots of 7mm beam at 40 optical below. X mirror completely captures the beam, Y mirror has some slight loss at max angle. HOWEVER, I did not include a crash margin. Jian's system may perform better if he has the scanners closer together, and utilizes a stopping pin to prevent crashing. I did not see a stopping pin in his pictures, so I assumed the mirrors do not have a crash margin. If they are actually closer together, they will likely perform better.




Please note I did not take the chamfers out of the corners of the mirrors like the real mirrors have (See website pictures). I don't have dimensions for those, and it would be unfair to Jian for me to represent them potentially inaccurately, so spillage may be slightly worse than shown. However, you can kind of overlay those chamfers in your head and decide for yourself. For the 7mm system, I dont think it would be an issue.

EDIT (now that I am on a PC...): Please excuse my use of Saturn 9 scanners rather than taking the time to model the DT50. This was the closest working model I had available which does not include an X set back which i was able to adjust quickly for use in this thread

[Finale]

I just dont understand why I don't have the 'right' to comment on others claims... simply because of my employment

I am not going to repeat myself. Go read my previous post, it's not about merely commenting.

I have nowhere mentioned our own offerings until being called out on not offering a turnkey solution, to which i replied that a solution is available...

The solution is not turnkey though. I don't care why you don't, I don't care what options there are and I certainly don't care how great your company is for working with other corporations, bottom line is I can't just press a button, buy and get a scanner and amp from you while I can from DT and everyone else.

Please show me where I am "advertising my own shit"

Are you kidding me? Even in reply to John you say you don't want to advertise, "however...".

Finale, (whoever you are.... easy to hide behind a keyboard and screen name)

Okay, is this Bill? Bill, is that you posting under this username? Or are you related to Bill? Has he perhaps had a huge influence on you? Nowhere else in the entire internet has anybody tried to discredit me for using a nickname and calling it "hiding" besides Bill.
Honestly, I won't be surprised if this is actually Bill posting under this profile.

Man I'll just accept that you're hell bent on hating and disagreeing anything I will ever post

This conclusion coming from one disagreement we have ever had? Fine. Pretty weird though.

If you're literally going to question my credibility because I don't own a device that allows me to edit my post,

Who said anything about credibility? I'm saying your spamming by doing that which makes people less likely to read on which hurts the advertising of this product which the OP made the thread for. I said that before you explained you're on some weird device with limited browser.

I'll just come to the concluson that we will never be able to have a reasonable relationship, and I'm perfectly OK with that.

LOL. See, this is why I "hide" behind a username. Anyone who disagrees with Bill/Ryan and has one argument with them can't have a "reasonable relationship" with them. This hurts my business and you know that damn well. I'm not going to be blackmailed into keeping silence though. Having other companies get bullied and hurt hurts my business too.

I've seen your "spare me the explanation" comment a few times and have learned it is synonomous with "I'm going to spew some BS and don't want to be called on it".

Oh, I'm spewing bullshit, huh? You went pretty low here, I'm not going to behave the same way.

I dont really care too much whether or not you want an explanation, but since you have yet again called us out on something with literally no basis in fact, you can ignore the rest of this post and I will explain for everybody else listening

I literally said "Yes, I know there's a reason behind that number" so all you said was pointless.

[Fearless]

Thanks Ryan for providing the info. Jian's DT50BB scanners and board are arriving here tomorrow. I'll be putting it into one of my high power rigs over the weekend. I have a function generator and oscope and Cambridge's manual on tuning for reference. ( Jian, do you have test points for your board, specifically the position sensor?) We will see how they stack up vs Pangolin's 506's 10mm aperture scanners with Laser Fantasy boards. I also have a 6210H with the same size mirrors to compare. I must admit Jian has been great to work with, fast shipping, and if they work the same or better than the 506's, the price point will be hard to beat.

[rns0504]

Thanks Ryan for providing the info. Jian's DT50BB scanners and board are arriving here tomorrow. I'll be putting it into one of my high power rigs over the weekend. I have a function generator and oscope and Cambridge's manual on tuning for reference. ( Jian, do you have test points for your board, specifically the position sensor?) We will see how they stack up vs Pangolin's 506's 10mm aperture scanners with Laser Fantasy boards. I also have a 6210H with the same size mirrors to compare. I must admit Jian has been great to work with, fast shipping, and if they work the same or better than the 506's, the price point will be hard to beat.

Thanks and please let us know the results of your test, we all look forward to hearing the results. The inertia of the Y mirror you will receive is approximately 0.036 g*cm^2, assuming glass substrate. The inertia of the 10mm Y mirror on your C506 is 0.180 g*cm^2, so literally five time the inertia of the mirror you will receive tomorrow. Regardless, I look forward to seeing how they stack up! Will you have the capacity to do a side by side comparison of all three scansets?

Glad to hear Jian has been good to work with!

THE COMMENTS AND OPINIONS ABOVE ARE MINE AND NOT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER

[Fearless]

Hi Ryan,
So yes, I will able to do a side by side comparison of the 506's and Jian's DT50BB rather quickly. The comparison between DT50BB and the 6210H will have to wait as I'm still building that rig that will be put into my 8 foot laser robot (Gort)--although, I could borrow one of Andrew's rigs that has a working 6210H scanset next weekend (I just tuned that laser for him, so he owe me one)--or just go over to his shop (about 3 miles from my house) and compare Jian's scanner with all of his rigs--he has a lot of Lightspace rigs, probably not a great comparison as the mirrors sizes are different.

[masterpj]

Ryan was just being honest with the specs.. I dont like the confusion which fools many newcomers and alike in this industry. It's not company bullying.. it's getting rid of the BS.. nobody wants to do it and when someone does it he gets guilted into "bullying a company" even though they are some of the most qualified people to talk and comment about the technical details of this kind of equipment.

He isn't saying the product is bad or good value.. The DT50's are considerably larger which adds inertia among other things. The DT40pros are great but they are not perfect! Their resonance is their limiting factor.. the shaft is not stiff enough and flexes causing tiny vibrations after a certain scanspeed which someone says "You should not complain about" but remember this a product also catering to professionals and these problems get worse and worse with distance and affects people like me who send content to clients who might be confused about specs which results in me having to spend a lot of time to guide them to get rid of this confusion and resolve the problems they have!.. in older versions of the DT40 this was worse.

Jian is a great guy as well and for scanners coming from china he makes some of the best galvos!