1 minute understand DT50

[Finale]

We like the option of being able to pick and choose our clients....

You sound like the kind of guy who wants to fuck his own reflection.

I did get a BEAUTIFUL ILDA pattern at 100% at 30K, so they are as advertised.

Who would have thought, huh?
Thanks for sharing this info.

[rns0504]

LMFAO 😂 that's one of the best things I've ever heard in a while.

What's wrong with choosing who we want to do do business with?

[Bradfo69]

What's really sad, is several years ago I was super jazzed up and excited at the prospects of scanners/digital amps from Pangolin and really looked forward to buying several - as in probably 7-10 complete sets. But to be truthful, with the whole evolution as it has played out over the years, I've simply lost any interest. I've just grown to feel like "meh... whatever".
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I'm not saying there is *anything* wrong with them. They're great scanners and, if I buy another projector someday that has Saturns or 506's built in, it's not like I'll be disappointed. But, I think I hit a point, perhaps a year or so ago when I realized I have become really neutral about it all and, just don't care anymore. I just wanted a turnkey retail box product, complete with digital amps before I pulled the trigger. (Even if you had to specify certain mirrors when ordering.)
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If I happen to have a need to buy some scanners, I'll likely check sites like Stanwax or Lasershowparts or Lightspace and buy what they happen to have in stock at a reasonable price. Most are *really* all about the same for a vast majority of users I suspect. I personally have 7 different brands/models running in my stuff and probably couldn't tell you on any given show which was which. I wish they could have all been switched to Pangolin. Truly... I do. But that once bright blaze that burned in my gut for these, has really fizzled out to the faint cherry glow of a recently blown out candle wick, with mere wisps of lingering smoke still rising from it's core. And that's a shame. I feel kinda bad about it but, I guess it is what it is.
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I also DO realize that, our relationship is such that if I took the initiative to sit down with any of you and discuss it, and put the money up, that I feel I'd be treated very fairly and end up with turn key scanner sets with digital amps. So, I'm not knocking or bashing. I'm just saying there is no longer a passionate, crazed desire to get my hands on any, anymore.

[swamidog]

it's a very slippery slope.

LMFAO 😂 that's one of the best things I've ever heard in a while.

What's wrong with choosing who we want to do do business with?

[Finale]

LMFAO �� that's one of the best things I've ever heard in a while.

It's funny cuz it's true. Nothing "wrong" with that.

Bradfo, I know how you feel.
Pangolin (Bill) is a great salesman. He can really convince you that his shit smells better, used to work on me too. But there comes a point when you stick long enough and don't have anything better to think about for long enough that you realize "shit is shit, whatever". Yeah, it might look a bit better, it might work a tad bit better or perform a tad bit better but from both an artistic and business point of view the difference is minuscule to many of us. Yes Pangolin makes some great products, so do these guys... PT too, Goldenstar's own scanners haven't disappointed yet either, and that guy from Greece too. Same in the software section.
And once again they turn this into a discussion about Pangolin... did I say they are great salesmen?

[andy_con]

so how come you can buy controllers (fb3/4) via the pangolin web site using a buy it now button, but not scanners? your not fussy who uses your controller but you are scanners? that's some weird shit!

I'm so glad your the only company ive come across who operates like this.


ill take my business elsewhere its fine, I cant be dealing with companies like that

No, because it doesn't exist, and we don't want it to exist

If someone's biggest criteria in buying a set of scanners is a "buy it now" button, there are plenty of products available on eBay and Amazon and Alibaba.

We like the option of being able to pick and choose our clients and also ensure that what somebody wants to order is what they actually need (many here would be shocked how many people contact us and have no idea what the hell they are talking about). For these reasons, there will never be a buy it now button. Plus these days most of our clients for the Saturns (70% these days) are industrial, medical and research, and their company cultures also require consultation with us, before purchasing at current pricing

THE COMMENTS ABOVE ARE MY OWN BUT IN THIS CASE ACTUSLLY DO REPRESENT THE OPINION OF MY EMPLOYER

[masterpj]

Well Jian set me the DT50BB and I compared them with the 506 set from Pangolin with amps from Laser Fantasy. I can get an almost perfect 12K ILDA image at a full 100% size, and more importantly I can get all my fat red beam on the scanners. With Jian's set, I can get all the red beam on the X mirror, but it spills out on the Y as it is 3mm or so less wide than the 506's. Spillage! Rats! I did get a BEAUTIFUL ILDA pattern at 100% at 30K, so they are as advertised. But it would be difficult to directly compare them with the 506's without the same mirrors (size and weight) attached. Oh well, back to my used Cambridge 6210h's until that glorious day when I can get my hands on a Saturn9B. I will say with a beam in the 8 mm range, Jian's scanners are amazing for the price.
Attachment 51947
The Cambridge 6210H is at the top, Jian's galvo is on the bottom, and Pangolin's 506 is to the left.

You can crank up the gain and I know DT40's for instance could do that quite a bit.. but resonance became a quick issue.. if there is any form of resonance in the test pattern (even slightly) then it's actually a lot further off then you might think!
Make sure you also really calculate the angle it's projecting.. I've seen it a lot that chinese manufacturers turn the size pot down to get more proper scanning at 100% in software and then specifying the angle of 60 degrees which it is capable off but limited to NOT do... it gives the false impression when you don't have something to compare it next to.

You have to be more specific with an "almost perfect" image.

Regarding availability:

First of all if you really want a saturn check here: https://www.kvantlasers.sk/category/...isplay-systems
Select a clubmax and scroll down until you see optional.. there you can select the saturn galvos.



If you really want them then you'd go that route.
Demand is high for them and which such a high demand choices have to be made to keep supply steady and available for the major medical clients who buy larger quantity on a more frequent basis.
Just like for cambridge the laser display industry makes up only maybe 2% of the sales where as militairy and medical makes up the largest market... they make giant deals with those companies which is less overhead then trying to fullfill many small orders (7~10 is still a small order). Cambridge however has the benefit of having galvos with a simpler coil winding that can be outsourced to china or mechanised where as the saturn has a drastically different type of winding which cannot be mechanised so far... This is one of many factors which however contribute to it's uncomparable performance.

So yeah.. to summerize: If you really want one, bite the bullet and buy a clubmax with it.. I have already seen adam labay, hunter owen and garret crabtree get their hands on them this way.. and I have been suggesting more to go this route rather then complain and never end up getting a set because of it.

so how come you can buy controllers (fb3/4) via the pangolin web site using a buy it now button, but not scanners? your not fussy who uses your controller but you are scanners? that's some weird shit!

I'm so glad your the only company ive come across who operates like this.


ill take my business elsewhere its fine, I cant be dealing with companies like that

Because those boards can be cranked out quick and don't require people trained to assemble them to produce them (only during development) where as the galvos are not made as quickly.
I am puzzled why people are so upset.. finally a company invests in pushing laser scanning further which in a long time no company has taken on their shoulders financially...

On a sidenote I am interested in reviewing the DT50 and might send off an email to jian about purchasing a set for review myself.

[rns0504]

so how come you can buy controllers (fb3/4) via the pangolin web site using a buy it now button, but not scanners? your not fussy who uses your controller but you are scanners? that's some weird shit!

I'm so glad your the only company ive come across who operates like this.


ill take my business elsewhere its fine, I cant be dealing with companies like that

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the question. All major galvo manufacturers, you cannot just click "Buy it now". We like to align ourselves with these companies, rather than the chinese competitors.

The simple reason for this is beliw

The C506 is available in many different configurations, for many different uses.

Beam Size - 3mm, 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, 8mm, 10mm, or no mirrors
Coil Configuration - Standard, or Low Impedance (AW50)
Beam Entry - Left or Right Handed
Connector Configuration - Mini CT, Micromatch, or Molex MicroFit
Mirror Coating - Dielectric or Protected Silver
Driver - 12v (X-Laser), Small Mirror (Kvant), Large Mirror (Laser Fantasy), DSP (Mach DSP), or no driver.

I may be missing a few options as well, but that is 840 different flavors in which you can get your scanners (This is C506 only too- Not including Saturn scanners!) , compared to some of the "Buy it Now" scanners, which only come in one or two configurations.

Andy, I'm sure youre a really smart guy and know exactly what you would need for your application. However, unfortunately not all clients are as sharp. Case in point - see two emails below where I did not fully interview the client (one from today!), and they ended up getting something that did not work for their application, or got something which was different than they were anticipating. By speaking to each and every client individually, it reduces or completely eliminates these issues. Better for everybody in the long run! Plus a buy it now page with 840 options would be awful! And each of those options IS functional - no fluff like colors or anything like that - each tailored to a specific application. By speaking with somebody on the phone or a quick email exchange, I can narrow down almost instantly what the client will need for their application. Note that these 840 options dont include tuning types which we tailor for every application - do they need Proportional and Derivative, Proportional, Integral and Derivative, PseudoDerivative Feedback, PseudoDerivative Feedback with Feed Forward, etc etc, something many light show clients are not needing or even aware of.






As for the FB3 / FB4 comment - the FB3 only comes in 1 flavor, and the FB4 in 3 flavors, not 840, for one product!

Another reason for not posting a buy it now - a few manufacturers have purchased much of our assembly capacity for the time being - Currently 70% of Saturn systems are going into industrial applications, including self-driving cars, or medical and research applications. These clients pay a lot more money for special tunings and other things which cost time and money. Below is a real invoice for a real product I just shipped last week, at pricing the Light Show industry could never pay - note that this client did need special cables, mirrors and coatings, and tunings, etc. They got these less than three weeks after payment because they had cash in hand and no BS. Pangolin does not have any interest in being the low-cost leader in the market, bur rather a leader in quality and support.



Anyways, Jian, I am terribly sorry for again hijacking your thread - I was just answering a question posed to me. Moving forward, lets move any questions regarding the Pangolin scanners to the applicable C506 or Saturn thread. If a mod could move these posts over there, that would be OK as well. I also dont mind discussing directly - if anyone wants to continue the conversation, please feel free to call me at 1-800-Pangolin, etc. I'll be in the office 60 hours this week and would be more than happy to chat I'm sure no answers I give will ever please some people and I'm OK with that, we can't be everything to everyone

[Finale]

masterpj, I know you get free stuff from Pangolin but you don't have to act as their personal attorney in every damn thread where someone doesn't agree with them.

Here's my take on what is REALLY happening with all these hijackings: being the good salesman he is Bill found few companies who made a bulk order which will make him way more $$$ so he doesn't have the time to sell to smaller clients, which is 100% okay in every sense. However he wants to keep the eyes of smaller clients (us) at his products by criticising competition every time he gets the chance and trying to convince his products are superior and are worth the wait or extra hassle. Whether or not they are is another topic but this is some shady tactics. This is what gets people pissed. I see he's passed the online torch to his employee.

You have different configurations of 506? Just make few drop-down lists in the checkout page so people can choose the different combinations automatically. You won't be the first company to do this...

Another reason for not posting a buy it now - a few manufacturers have purchased much of our assembly capacity for the time being - Currently 70%

I think this is the main reason.

the only company ive come across who operates like this.

Exactly. Nowhere have I seen this while working with lasers, DMX lights, pyro, LEDs, video mapping, music production hardware and software. Just be honest and say you can't keep up, these excuses are and have been pretty weak.

[rns0504]

You have different configurations of 506? Just make few drop-down lists in the checkout page so people can choose the different combinations automatically. You won't be the first company to do this....

I would, but like stated above, some people don't know what the options mean, and we prefer to discuss these with every client before ordering. People regularly THINK they know what they are ordering, and it turns out they were mistaken, like in the two examples above. If human interaction with us is really that much of a problem, again, feel free to order from one of the Buy it Now outfits.

As for the rest of your post, I cant say that it is completely untrue. Bulk orders are much easier for us to produce and fulfill (200 systems all made the same way, vs 200 systems with say 80 different configurations). I still never will understand what is the problem with demanding accurate specs from competitors so it is a level playing field for all, and I will always comment or ask for clarification when I see something that I don't understand. We certainly welcome any comments or criticism of our products or practices while we continue to grow the division