Commercial NON Varienced laser shows

[buffo]

^That's why most people hire a tax service.. you get more money back anyway..

Well, there are companies that will fill out your variance paperwork for you too. They'll even write you an operator's manual, if you want... Of course, they charge a good bit more than H&R block does for a standard long form!

I don't mind taking some time to fill everything out, but I really don't feel that there is anything wrong with the idea of having a thread here (which I have already started) in which people who have experiences that they are willing to share can do so.

I did not intend to imply that there was something wrong with your question. I was merely explaining why the answer you were looking for wasn't already done, and why it was unlikely that anyone would be willing to do it (to the level of completeness you seemed to expect) in the future. That's not an attack; please do not take it as such.

I feel it would be far more helpful to give some pointers and help to other American laser enthusiasts regarding the variance process so that they can become legal.

I agree. And this has been going on for some time here on PL. True, the "pointers" are often scattered among multiple threads, but such is the way of forums. It would be nice if someone had time to search through all the threads and pull out the relevant information into a single document, but I just don't see that happening.

To be honest, there *was* some talk of starting a Wiki at one point, but there wasn't enough interest / support to really get it going. But no one is against helping people - least of all me.

If the amateur radio community is willing to do things like this to help aspiring hams, why can't the laser community do the same?

Speaking as a former ham, and on behalf of the numerous active hams here on the site, I'd have to say that there is every bit as much support available to the laser community.

A big part of that support is found in the many Laser Enthusiast's Meetings, but there is also support available here. Still, we can't do everything for everyone. We all have jobs, families, and lives beyond PL. So we do what we can and answer questions when we can.

I get the feeling that you are not happy with the answers you have received so far. What then, are you unsure about?

Whenever anyone has ever asked me how to become a licensed amateur radio operator, I have provided them with as many resources as I could to help simplify the process.

The problem is that ham radio is more popular than playing with laser projectors. There are no "Bash books" for lasers. In fact, there is exactly *one* book that I can think of (The Light Show Handbook) that is of at least some utility to laser hobbyists (it was written by L. Michael Roberts), but it's been out of print for over a decade. (And these days a lot of it is outdated anyway.) So there just aren't that many resources to provide.

Marc did a good job of pulling together all the relevant CDRH documents on the topic of variances. Beyond that, your choices are either to ask a fellow laserist for help, hire a consultant, or call the CDRH yourself and ask questions. I know it's probably not the answer you were looking for, but it's all we've got.

it would be a lot of work, and there's no reason why only one person should have to do it or that it be a single document.

Well, one person (or a small group) really should make sure that the information is accurate, don't you think? Forums are notorious for spreading incorrect information. So if you want to have something close to an "official" guide, someone needs to take responsibility for editing. (And no, I don't want the job! I'm not qualified, and I don't have the time in any event.)

Adam

[ElektroFreak]

I took no offense to anything you said. Apologies if I led you to believe otherwise.

Sometimes I play devil's advocate and ask questions or make statements that I already know the answer to/outcome of for the benefit of others.

I get the feeling that you are not happy with the answers you have received so far. What then, are you unsure about?

It's not that I was unhappy with the answers, I was unhappy with the level of frustration that many people feel about the current variance requirements and procedures. So far this thread has consisted of people voicing their feelings about the variance process and/or ignoring the process, which is fine, but it led me to believe that a central thread dedicated to the variance process alone might help ease some folks' frustrations. The variance thread has already helped me understand this better in just the short time it has existed.

[mixedgas]

[cdrh used to mail out a huge packet of stuff. Now the online pDfs are rather sparse. This may be part of the problem.

Steve

[wingsnaprop]

Dude !! .. you got MY installation !! LOL .. Native Daytonian here .. AND I Bribed A Bunch of Politicians, but got shut out of River-Scrape ... .. I know .. I know Bribed officals are NOT Dependable... Right Scarry Carf? ....... told me it would work !! Passshhhaaawwww

Who's running it this coming summer?

the system we installed in Dayton, Ohio includes a 75W RGB projector on a waterscreen and 150 W of YAGs for beams,

[laseralex]

Dude !! .. you got MY installation !!

LOL! Yeah, it can be hard to compete with the big guys. I hope you understand that they needed a large company to do the job. It took us about 8 man-years of work (from a team with a couple hundred years of combined laser display experience) to design, build, install, and program that system.

Fun facts:
- Tied (with our Grand Coulee projector) for most powerful RGB laser projector in the world
- Currently the most powerful permanent laser display in North America, with 225W total power
- Believed to be the largest water screen in North America, second largest in the world

[wingsnaprop]

LOL yea ,, Umm ..We were Laserium ,,ever heard of us? .. ,Me & my partner at the time, Ivan Dryer, Not to mention MY 'Born and Raised' Deep Roots in Dayton, soo I think there was a battle of the bribes.. that we lost ...

You guys sent the dayton Officials on an 2 week All expense paid Vacation to the pacific northwest ...
water under the bridge...

LOL! Yeah, it can be hard to compete with the big guys. I hope you understand that they needed a large company to do the job. It took us about 8 man-years of work (from a team with a couple hundred years of combined laser display experience) to design, build, install, and program that system.

Fun facts:
- Tied (with our Grand Coulee projector) for most powerful RGB laser projector in the world
- Currently the most powerful permanent laser display in North America, with 225W total power
- Believed to be the largest water screen in North America, second largest in the world

[laseralex]

LOL yea ,, Umm ..We were Laserium ,,ever heard of us? .. ,Me & my partner at the time, Ivan Dryer, Not to mention MY 'Born and Raised' Deep Roots in Dayton, soo I think there was a battle of the bribes.. that we lost ...

You guys sent the dayton Officials on an 2 week All expense paid Vacation to the pacific northwest ...
water under the bridge...

LOL, my mistake.

I thought you were saying you were living in Dayton at the time of the show, and I know that there wasn't a laser show company in Dayton capable of doing it. (Laserium /Laser Images is in LA, not any closer to Dayton than LFI.) The closest company to Dayton which could have done it was probably Image Engineering over in Boston, if proximity was a requisite.

I had nothing to do with the sales process on that one, but inviting a client to come see the only comparable projector in the world doesn't seem unfair. Floyd retired not long after that install and is living in Hawaii; I continue to work for a living. C'est la vie!

[dsli_jon]

Hey Corporall

There are some folks putting on large, pay to enter laser shows without any varience papers using large up to 5 watt and larger RGB lasers. is this safe? Should/can something be done about it? And what might that entail

First-off, kudos to you for 'speaking-up' - we need more people out there, like you, astute-enough to recognize the 'problem' and be willing to at least speak-up.... the first, important-step in moving-towards improving what is, admittedly, a highly-flawed system (CDRH-regs / variances / enforcement...)

Second, where did you observe this happening? Oregon, Hawaii, or Cali? If Cali, perhaps I can help you 'help' this person / Co...

I want to help - NOT to be some sort of 'self-righteous lasercop', but because fools like that - people who, either due to ignorance of the laws / regs, or, worse, downright don't CARE about the regs / laws, WILL, eventually, 'screw the pooch' for all of us - and I, for one, who still makes a living in this industry (which is hard-enough to-do, as it IS with the economy-factor, let-alone draconican regs / State-agencies, etc) am keen to both help educate and, where possible, 'weed-out' the spoilers and hacks...

My thinking is, if someone is either too ignorant, or too arrogant (or worse, BOTH... ) to have the attitude that it 'does-not matter' if you have a variance or not, then they are far more likely to be either too stupid (or too arrogant) to actually APPLY the safety-standards espoused in the regs, varianced or not - and sooner or later, you have a 'Russian incident' here in th US - and then we have a 'Las Vegas-style moratorium' down-on all our photon-butts...

Yes, the regs can-be confusing, at first, and yes, ALL (especially, enforcement) of it needs an overhaul, but ie: to Flecom: I don't believe that it 'pointless' to get a Variance -

...additionally, and possibly more detrimental, its fairly undocumented... show me one good book/website, some clear/concise writeup on laser show safety/requirements/laws in the US...

OK, here's one:

New FAA-Regs Page

...that, I observe, is a nearly-, if-not, totally-direct result of ILDA's efforts via Patrick Murph and Sir Greg Makhov, from thier meetings with FAA - an effort that we certainly all benefit from... (thanks, Gents! ) And currently, ILDA / Pat Murph is working with CDRH to improve the 'CeSub' online report-submission process (which, yes, is a pain in the arse, at-best - even paper is still easier, for now...)

Now, I know there are people out there that have 'issues with ILDA', blah, blah, blah, whatever - to each, his own... point I am making is, RE: the MUCH-improved FAA pages, there - IF we make an effort, and KEEP UP at it, eventually, we CAN make a difference... BUT, in order to not be 'hypocrites' / cover our butts, etc, like Allthat nicely pointed-out, we 'follow the process', meantime... And I certainly think, IMO, that if ONE person / Co *says* (whether in word or in DEED) 'it doesn't really matter if you're varianced, as long as you do it safely...' , that only encourages more 'rogues' to 'jump the line', who, some of which, WON'T do things safely...

...So - wanna go push 4 illegal-laserscopes into someones pool with me? ..kidding... or maybe not...

Anyhoo, care to share who / where this is going down? PM, if you want...

peace...
j

[wingsnaprop]

The biggest threat to the professional laserist are those 150mw Laser pointers.. Just as soon as a child gets a verifiable flash burn , and it lands on CNN


Holy Crap they need to be like a sick Bird .... ill-eagle

[Phredy1]

Holy Crap they need to be like a sick Bird .... ill-eagle

Assuming you mean in the USA, they already are.

http://www.laserpointersafety.com/ru...drh-letter.pdf