Show variences

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and somewhat new to lasers in general although have already learned a great deal and own 6 or 7. (Most don't require a varience. - Low power or the beam has gradient diffusers.)

I manage a banquet and conference center and am looking to incorporate a lighting package w/laser and non-laser lighting into my sales for proms/weddings etc. I'm going to need to get some higher powered units, as this is a BIG hall and I realize they need to be FDA approved and varienced and, that the show requires a varience as well.

With a somewhat permanent installation, do I need to apply for variences for each event? Say, if I have proms three Friday nights in a row and it's the same set up. Does each one need a varience or, in this case does the facility get the varience?

Thanks!
~Brad

Hi Brad-

I sent you a PM also, but i will comment here also.

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I'm new to the forum

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Welcome to PL!! :) glad to have ya!

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Most don't require a varience. - Low power or the beam has gradient diffusers.

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Low power, if under 5mW, yes- you are correct. "Diffusers" however, do not affect variance requirements if the power output is still >5mW.

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I'm going to need to get some higher powered units, as this is a BIG hall and I realize they need to be FDA approved and varienced and, that the show requires a varience as well.

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Are you looking into full color? multi-color? or single color? We can discuss.

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With a somewhat permanent installation, do I need to apply for variences for each event? Say, if I have proms three Friday nights in a row and it's the same set up. Does each one need a varience or, in this case does the facility get the varience?

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the initial laser light show report and variance app will cover the operator and venue. As long as nothing changes from these iniital reports, you are all set. You would not need to do any further reports or notifications again, as long as nothing is varied from event to event that goes against what was originally reported in your applications.

Feel free to ask more questions, this stuff could get confusing. :)

-Marc

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Originally Posted by gottaluvlasers

Low power, if under 5mW, yes- you are correct. "Diffusers" however, do not affect variance requirements if the power output is still >5mW.

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correct me if I am wrong but if you use a non-removable grating its the power of each beam no?

ex you have a 400mW laser with a diffraction that splits the beam into 100 smaller beams of equal power (for the sake of argument - 4mw) therefore no variance

Yes. That's the type of lasers I was referring to. In addition to some other 4.95 units, I have a couple of the Chauvet Scorpion Storm RG's that I believe are about 30mW but, spread the beams into hundreds of points. They're FDA approved, sold in DJ and music stores all over the US, and I don't believe a variance is necessary.

The others include a Chauvet Grafx Express moving head laser that's 4.95, a small Chauvet Scorpion that I believe is 4.95. And of course, for play at home, one "illegal" Meierlight LAS -4 that's a full color, DMX and ILDA cartoon laser around 220mW that I run with Moncha 2.1 and, a brand new Laserworld C-250G that I haven't gotten to work yet. I'm blaming the fact that the 110v to 220v step up transformer I bought isn't providing the full 50 watts necessary. (It's still set up for 220v.) Oh... and it's a Laserworld which doesn't seem to hold much credibility on this board.

For in the banquet hall though, I'm thinking about something from X-Laser that is full color, maybe 800mW to 1 watt, legal, varienced and whatever else I need to ensure I can use it for weddings, proms and other private parties. I've got 14 foot ceilings and am looking to permanently mount it so nothing drops below 10 feet high. There are no chandeliers, mirrors or other reflective items on the walls or ceiling.

Thanks for the responses! I'll try and follow up with a phone call.

~Brad

LOL-

yes, Laserworld and PhotonLexicon do not get along very well. If you're happy with it, than thats all that matters though.

your venue seems to be perfectly fit for a good laser system. 1W would be a good place to start for a Full color system. It would provide great graphics possibilities and the beams would look pretty decent in lower lighting conditions.

Are you allowed to use fog/haze in your establishment?

-Marc

Say Brad;

The 4th annual South Eastern Laser Enthusiast's Meeting will be held in Newton, North Carolina over the weekend of August 21st and 22nd. That's a little over 8 hours by car. If it fits in your schedule, you might want to come join us. It's a private event, but we'll have numerous projectors present, and Both Dan Goldsmith and Adam Raugh from X-laser will be there. Marc Arotsky from Connecticut Lasers will be there, and Bill Benner from Pangolin Laser Systems will also be present.

It would be a good way for you to get a feel for the current state of the art with regard to laser projectors, controllers, and software. While many of the projectors present will be home-built units, there will be a few commercial units set up as well (including one or two from X-laser and at least one from CT lasers).

Also, on Monday, August 23rd (the day after SELEM), Casey Stack from Laser Compliance inc will be putting on a full day long seminar on laser safety and compliance with US regulations for laser show operators and projector manufacturers. This seminar normally costs upwards of $800 per person, but Casey has agreed to waive the costs for everything except his barest expenses, bringing the cost per person down to just $70. So if you can stay an extra day, this all day presentation would be perfect for bringing you up to speed on all the legal procedures you'll need to go through to get your new laser installed in your facility.

Details about SELEM can be found in this thread, while details about Casey Stack's safety presentation can be found here.

Adam

Thanks Adam! I read about it last night and am giving it some serious consideration. I had a wedding cancel that weekend so I'm free in theory. I also had a friend move to Asheville a couple years ago and have been down to visit about 10 times so, I know the drive VERY well. I haven't had a proper vacation since about 2001 so, going to look at lasers and get some education would be an enjoyable getaway. And, probably expensive as I'd likely walk out of there with an order for some company! lol

Marc,

Yes, both haze and fog are fine. I have about 5 fog machines although I have since learned that haze is really the way to go (thanks to X-Lasers Youtube videos) and have been looking at some units for here. Almost bid on a La Maitre Neutron the other night.
I understand oil based has a better hang time that water based units although, most seem to be in the $1,500 range for a good one which is more than I think I can justify. I'm likely going to lust after a Chauvet Arena Hazer 2 ($700) for a bit and then make the plunge.

Yes, the hall lends itself very well to lasers and strongly resembles what X-Laser used as their 7 part Youtube case study with a prom back in May that's on their website. I fortunately don't have the chandelier issues they encountered. I'm impressed with what I've seen from X-Laser and, they're only about a 45 minute drive away (I think). Somewhere around Baltimore/DC.

I HOPE I end up happy with Laserworld.... at the present time though, I'm a little irked that they seem to think perhaps it's operator error and not possibly their laser that's faulty. The safety interlock was a joke and once I cleared that hurdle, I still have the issue of nothing but the internal power supply fan running. No indicator lights, no external fan and, of course, no bright green glow that we all want out of the front either! I'm only left with wattage being a question and although it says 20 watts of power on the label, the manual says 50 and the step up transformer I bought was a 50. I orderd a 100 watt which should be here early next week and, if that doesn't do it, the damn thing is headed back to Germany.

~Brad

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Originally Posted by Bradfo69

Thanks Adam! I read about it last night and am giving it some serious consideration. I had a wedding cancel that weekend so I'm free in theory. I also had a friend move to Asheville a couple years ago and have been down to visit about 10 times so, I know the drive VERY well. I haven't had a proper vacation since about 2001 so, going to look at lasers and get some education would be an enjoyable getaway. And, probably expensive as I'd likely walk out of there with an order for some company! lol

Marc,

Yes, both haze and fog are fine. I have about 5 fog machines although I have since learned that haze is really the way to go (thanks to X-Lasers Youtube videos) and have been looking at some units for here. Almost bid on a La Maitre Neutron the other night.
I understand oil based has a better hang time that water based units although, most seem to be in the $1,500 range for a good one which is more than I think I can justify. I'm likely going to lust after a Chauvet Arena Hazer 2 ($700) for a bit and then make the plunge.

Yes, the hall lends itself very well to lasers and strongly resembles what X-Laser used as their 7 part Youtube case study with a prom back in May that's on their website. I fortunately don't have the chandelier issues they encountered. I'm impressed with what I've seen from X-Laser and, they're only about a 45 minute drive away (I think). Somewhere around Baltimore/DC.

I HOPE I end up happy with Laserworld.... at the present time though, I'm a little irked that they seem to think perhaps it's operator error and not possibly their laser that's faulty. The safety interlock was a joke and once I cleared that hurdle, I still have the issue of nothing but the internal power supply fan running. No indicator lights, no external fan and, of course, no bright green glow that we all want out of the front either! I'm only left with wattage being a question and although it says 20 watts of power on the label, the manual says 50 and the step up transformer I bought was a 50. I orderd a 100 watt which should be here early next week and, if that doesn't do it, the damn thing is headed back to Germany.

~Brad

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Thanks for the kind words Brad and of course we will be happy to help if you decide to go that route. We have some demo stock projectors in great condition that we could get you at a decent price. I am also happy to help with any questions you might have in general. Just give the office a ring and ask for Dan.=)

Thanks Dan,

Wow... that's a tease. :-) I haven't been in contact with any of your suppliers so, I know nothing about X-Lasers pricing yet. I'm sure before this silly new hobby is done you'll end up with some of my cash though! Even if it's to produce a show in my venue for a client on some special occasion since I'm only a quick dash up I-95. It's a 7,000 sq foot banquet hall that looks nearly identical to the one featured in your recent prom case study.

On a positive note - the 100 watt step up transformer took care of the problem. I'm anxious to set it up and play a little this evening.

~Brad