Info on scan fail systems

Hi Guys

After being the one that started this thread last week and dispite not posting to meany replys I have been following it with great interest and has been very informative even though it meandered off the subject of scan fail systems i'm glad the topic spred to a wider scope on safety with lasers shows in public.

A bit off the subject again but came across a real pet hate of mine again last weekend at a night club. About 4 or 5 clubbers came in with laser pointers and not little red ones but high power green DPSS ones with output powers near the 100mW mark.:mad: The idiots were waving them about with no care as to who or what was being struck by the beam.:cool: Sometimes even playing laser tag with them across the dance floor. Should be classed as offencive wepons if you ask me. They are great things for there intended perpose as astronomy star pointers but not as the next big clubbing accessory after glow sticks.

The actions of people like these are probable the biggest danger to other clubers eye sight in night clubs.

Anyway enough bitching. Looking forward to seeing details of this open source scan fail system and agree with Karl about having some form of safety system is better then nothing at all. just hope it will work with my Scanpro 20's.

Carl

Hi Carl

I totally agree with your comments about laser pointers, many people who purchase these units have no idea of the risks. If they were 100mW they would be Class 3B laser product they would certainly need to have an assessment of the risks to be used in public.

Why would you ever need a laser pointer over say 3mW ??? word being 'pointer'

It goes back to my argument that if you don't know what the risks are or exactly how to assess those risks don't do it.

The more I here about laser safety issues, I really do think it is now time to classify these units as weapons, not laser pointers used in presentations.

look at this link from Greg Makhov ILDAhttp://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23532064-5005961,00.html

In Australia I believe that you need a license to own or use class 3b class 4 lasers.

I think that the UK DTI need to ban imports of lasers above class 2 now, and license the industry, and when you can prove your competence either through exam or recognized training course you can purchase your license renewable every 3 years. Yes' I did mention a charge for the licence as the DTI or government department would need to police the system and this would need funding.

If you remember the UK amateur radio license, something on a similar thinking.


You would not be able to drive your vehicle without a driving license, but you did have to prove your competence by sitting a test and exam.
You can still kill or injure someone on the roads, but at least you should have known better.

I do think that we need to have a safety area on the forum as there seems to have been more activity here than any other place on the interweb !! not even from ILDA about laser safety.

I for one would certainly contribute to a safety if you lke "CODE OF PRACTACE " for the safe use of lasers within the hobby or DIY group.

For proffesionals there are "CODES OF PRACTICE"


Regards


Kevin

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Originally Posted by Banthai

to start the discussion we need to look at

1, conditions of failure
2, input sense requirements
3, compatability with scanner amps on the market
4, response time
5, output control ( beam shutter, diode blanking or both )

these are just a few that i can think of .... in no particular order

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Great points Karl!! Go ahead and start the post and get it rolling. The funny thing is, looking at your list, I am sure you have given this more thought than some people who have products on the market for this...

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Originally Posted by Banthai

PS.... Can i have a ride in the PANGOVATOR .... :D

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Sorry Karl, only my wife gets to ride the PANGOVATOR :eek:

Bill

At least in the USA, there are no regulations regarding the personal use of a high power laser (for sake of argument, anything over Class IIIa.)

Put another way, it is perfectly legal for someone to build a 100mw or 10W laser in their home and use it for their own purposes (whatever that would be). As long as you 1) don't involve anyone other than yourself while it is being used and 2) don't sell it to someone else as a laser system then the FDA / CDRH or any state doesn't care about you.

A technicality in the law makes anyone building a laser system a "manufacturer". You

Take it to a club? Yup - that is an issue. That is already illegal so I would doubt any additional regulations would help. After all, you do not need a drivers license to own or build a car.

So - you have the right to be stupid and injure yourself. Involve someone else and you get to deal with the law.

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Originally Posted by Pangolin

Sorry Karl, only my wife gets to ride the PANGOVATOR :eek:

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Funniest. Comeback. Ever.

:D

Adam

One of my friends and sometimes business partner does a lot of legal rave laser shows. I like his policy. If anybody else at the rave fires up a laser greater then IIA , his laser goes down till the offending laser is removed. He's in Arizona, and the state regulatory bunch holds him responsible as LSO for ANY laser in the venue. I've been there when he does it, and btw, its included in the "hold harmless" in his contract. He still gets paid if he has to close down another laser. He has shut down DJs and Lighting guys who show up with the "green black widow flavor of the Month" and aim them into his audience. I've also seen him have security render harmless some rather hot pointers. I've also been through the Arizona site inspection process on his behalf. Rule: Do not get caught noncompliant in AZ.

I agree with one thing, we have enough laws, just NOT enough enlightened enforcement.

Steve Roberts

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Originally Posted by mixedgas

One of my friends and sometimes business partner does a lot of legal rave laser shows. I like his policy. If anybody else at the rave fires up a laser greater then IIA , his laser goes down till the offending laser is removed.

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We are starting to see these stupid pointer fools here.

In one instance, i confronted a offender with a pointer, and he said something along the lines of "Its only 40mw, I can shine it in a persons eye for 15 secs without doing any damage"!!!!!!

I saw the same person doing the laser pointer at a show of ours, and got security to kick him out :D

Hi All
I saw this thread and thought I would reply, we had a customer who arrived at our premises with a laser pointer that was giving over 250 MW output, this was checked with a calibrated power meter, he informed me that he has another one that is even brighter. We as a company have now started advising all our club owner clients to do the following (A) Post notices on the entrance to the club that the use of laser pointers within this venue are not allowed (B)that if they see people within their clubs with them, to restrict the people with them from using them within their premises. As a policy if we are now asked to perform a laser show and people have them within the venue that we are performing the laser show, we will not do that show. This is now a pre-requisite for people who book us to do shows.
One of my major concerns is not if, but when and how long before some person comes forward and blames a laser company or a club for eye damage that has nothing to do with the laser company or club but has been caused by some individual shining one of these high power laser pointers directly into some ones eyes.
I feel that the DTI and HPA(formerly NRPB) need to restrict the importation of any laser pointer that exceeds 5mw, after all it is a pointing device, it would only take some unsuspecting user even at a conference to damage a persons eye inadvertently.

C R Davie (CEO)
Laser Electronics Ltd.

bill said

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Go ahead and start the post and get it rolling.

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ok..... i have started the new post here

Open Source Scanfail Unit (phase 1)

http://photonlexicon.com/forums/show...8162#post48162

please add your ideas, requirements, circuits, to help make this a reality

all the best .... Karl

My first encounter was about 10 years ago helping LMR with a rave in Canada, A fellow showed up with some hot red diodes (probably CD player prototypes back then) on sunglasses, with one beam on each side focused to cross over him about 40 feet in front of him.. He was going around asking girls to "stare into the power" and of course they started screaming in pain after doing it. He also aimed them at us on stage frequently. I got so tired of it I walked off stage and grabbed him by the glasses frame and twisted. Canada being Canada, secuirty attempted to remove me, dispite a "access all areas" demigod pass. I had to explain to security he was probably doing more damage then a knife fight. Finally they removed his toy. His excuse was "free will", that he could do whatever he pleased and if somebody was dumb enough to be in his beam path or do what he asked, thats their problem.

My friend who ran Sea World of Ohio's show had another answer, PA Announce "ok every body point their pointers at the screen, preshow, Then out of nowhere the stadium lights dim and out comes a red SP171 beam, at full power with a fogger along its axis.. PA Anounce "OK, I win, everybody put their toys away and lets enjoy the show!"


So I applaud anyone who has a "not during our show policy."


Steve Roberts