are video projectors replacing laser projectors for graphics?

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Originally Posted by TechJunkie

For me I think video is my best option. I live in a condo, and I suspect a >1W laser projector will be too much. I still have my projector parts tho. I might build a small TTL .5W projector to experiment with. If I go TTL my cost for the rest of the parts I need should be under $100.

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The single-mode diode bundle that DTR sells is an excellent value and plenty bright. I used to have a 1.4W projector and for what I do, it was way too bright. That and big multi-mode beams were not cool to tame. I didn't have enought space for any kind of beam shaping. I dumped the higher power and went with better quality beams. For a living room laser show, it is plenty bright enough. Each of my single-mode projectors are about 320mW and the beams are pencil-thin. I know you're on a budget but if you're looking to get a nice lower powered system together, it's a good way to go. You also don't have to battle with cheap 532nm modulation issues.

Yes, Bill has stated that they monkey around with the output to get the best results although the context was beam shows where that was mentioned

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Originally Posted by solidude

I think I'd need to do more than that for graphics shows to emulate the laser feel, like a custom glare/bloom filter and fake flickering.

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LMAO. Now thats a troll. :beer:

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Originally Posted by absolom7691

The single-mode diode bundle that DTR sells is an excellent value and plenty bright.

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I agree. I've known Jordan for 4 years now.

I have most of the parts, including diodes. The only thing holding me back was the cost of decent galvos, and analog drivers. Because I've decided to go video I dont need the "better" parts now.

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Originally Posted by solidude

I'm guessing the video projector output for Beyond is meant to be used for beam shows. I think it's a pretty good and easy option to use a video projector for audience scanning instead.
But I'm guessing all the program does then is make the raster images antialiased and add thickness to the lines and points. I think I'd need to do more than that for graphics shows to emulate the laser feel, like a custom glare/bloom filter and fake flickering.

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How will you emulate laser speckle?

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Originally Posted by norty303

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That is all...

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FYI. Pangolin has been mentioned at least once in 403 threads in the past 12 months. Thats more than once a day. Maybe triple that because the search feature will only report thread titles, not single posts. And thats not including sig spam.

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Thanks for the info.. But unless you're just projecting a single point/pixel with both devices, I don't think this means much in practice. When you start using the galvos to display more than a point, each point doesn't seem so bright anymore. And I don't think you'd be using a single pixel for emulating a single laser point either.

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Solitude,

Just like with PSST you need to work this out and do the maths here. This is exactly what makes the laser beam so much more impressive. If more than one pixel is being projected by the video unit then the divergence is no longer 0.7mrad. At 1.4mrad the brightness is 14uW and @2.1mrad it is 31.5mW and so on. But, this doesn't make the video any more brilliant just brighter and all the way up to a full white screen @ 7W. The laser will always be able to pack 1 million times as much light into the same beam angle.

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The prices of the lasers and video projectors are also interesting. Taking the numbers from your example, a 3.4W Kvant laser is about $11000 (without a DAC of course), while most 3500 lumen video projectors I could find are under $2500. Unless we'd talk about cheap and not so quality Chinese lasers and ignore shipping and tax.

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There is no good reason I can see to pay $11,000 for ANY 3.4W laser projector. The video projector was built in China. Why not compare prices with a laser projector built there as well? And if the prices are not way divergent then consider what the application will be. You can't play BF4 on a laser projector and you would never perform a beam show with a video projector.

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I'm guessing the video projector output for Beyond is meant to be used for beam shows. I think it's a pretty good and easy option to use a video projector for audience scanning instead.

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That is how Bill presented it. This way you could fake-laser scan an audience with non-coherent light. Beyond simply takes the square with the video image of the laser projection from the Beyond control page and sends that to the video projector. The res is something like 600 x 600 pixels and so the graphics are fatter than from the laser, but therefore not so painfully dim.

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Originally Posted by solidude

The prices of the lasers and video projectors are also interesting. Taking the numbers from your example, a 3.4W Kvant laser is about $11000 (without a DAC of course), while most 3500 lumen video projectors I could find are under $2500. Unless we'd talk about cheap and not so quality chinese lasers and ignore shipping and tax.

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There's a special deal running now by Kvant, ClubMax >3W for 4150$. So way lower than 11'000$...

Just a little story FYI. I had a team of video guys a few year before, that became interested by lasers when they saw mine running on a party (it was only a lame 1W or 2w rgb at that time, nothing comparable with my stuff now). Then they came to my home to have a demo of lasers effects, and when I fired 3 lasers in my living room I can remember myself how all were crying wow wow amazing I want one right now ;) Then they bought one Kvant to me!
Before that, they done tons of simulated beam show and mapping projection with video projectors, on a pro level, so I believe it's not by chance they found the "real" laser effect so much better :p

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Originally Posted by solidude

;)
Interesting story.
So you used worse projectors in the party than what you kept in your home? because otherwise why would they go "wow" if they had seen lasers in a party?
I also don't know how long ago "few years ago" was and what their video projectors were capable of back then.
Then again, I've seen both myself in real life, so I don't think this story convinces me otherwise. The point of the topic was to find out what is it that I'm missing, because I don't see any difference. Looks like I'm good for my use case.

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Because lasers in a dark living room, even big (10 meters long) looks always better than in a club (in fact, an old factory) with I remember lack of smoke and with plenty of flash blinders and other lights ;) I don't know, I just remember clearly how much they were amazed in my living room. After looking at the Kvant invoice, it was oct. 2010, so not so far away.

But well if you seen both by yourself in real, what are you expecting better here, as the best judge are always and only your own eyes...

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Originally Posted by solidude

;)
but seriously, I think a bit of fake flickering/blinking will add that "my eyes hurt now" or "I'm epileptic now" feeling

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Wow, if you're seeing that much flicker, you have seen some really bad laser shows.

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Originally Posted by TechJunkie

FYI. Pangolin has been mentioned at least once in 403 threads in the past 12 months. Thats more than once a day. Maybe triple that because the search feature will only report thread titles, not single posts. And thats not including sig spam.

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Is that all? Not bad considering that a good portion of the members here use Pangolin. Sig spam? Okay, I'll fix it.