Laser control protocols. Standards, Open Source, and other? ILDA / ART-NET / DMX

This is a software development question I'm hoping others can chime in on. One manufacturer told me that all lasers work on different controllers/interfaces.

From a software development standpoint. If someone was looking to make a plugin/ or open source application for video to laser control. What are the ideal protocols and parameters for doing this?

I see manufacturers listing, Art-Net (WIFI/RJ45), ILDA (Parallel/RJ45), DMX (3-pin/RJ45). It seems that the 3pin DMX connection is on some cheaper lasers, and newer lasers seem to be shifting from the ILDA parallel cable to an RJ45 connection. Are more manufacturers open to art-net controls, and if so, what are the specs / parameters needed to control from a software development side?

Info:

1. Art-Net (WiFi/RJ45): Art-Net is a protocol used for transmitting DMX data over Ethernet networks. It is widely supported in the lighting industry and allows for control of a large number of fixtures over a network. Art-Net is suitable for controlling lasers in situations where Ethernet connectivity is available and preferred. It provides a scalable solution and is often used in professional settings.
   
   
2. ILDA (Parallel/RJ45): ILDA (International Laser Display Association) is a standard for controlling laser projectors via a parallel interface. It is a well-established protocol in the laser industry but is gradually being replaced by more modern interfaces like Ethernet (RJ45). ILDA is still widely supported by many laser projectors and control systems, but its use may decline over time as newer technologies become more prevalent.
   
   
3. DMX (3-pin/RJ45): DMX (Digital Multiplex) is a standard protocol used for controlling lighting fixtures, including lasers, via a serial data connection. It is commonly used in the entertainment industry and is supported by many laser projectors. DMX is suitable for controlling lasers in situations where a dedicated lighting control system is used, and compatibility with other DMX-controlled fixtures is required.

Is there a dream/desire for a more universal / open-source laser control protocol? (outside of the ones mentioned above). Or if we were working on a free video-to-laser plugin, should we focus mainly on ILDA or Art-Net and ignore the rest? What additionally considerations should we consider adding for controlling different laser brands or multiple lasers (standard crop, masking, and warp tools).

Thank you for your time.

You've got two flavors of dmx and ilda there. Ilda is about controlling the scanners/lasers directly, and dmx is about controlling the controller driving the scanners/lasers. Once you decide what you want to do you'll be ready to pick the interface.

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Originally Posted by ProjectileObjects

This is a software development question I'm hoping others can chime in on. One manufacturer told me that all lasers work on different controllers/interfaces.

From a software development standpoint. If someone was looking to make a plugin/ or open source application for video to laser control. What are the ideal protocols and parameters for doing this?

I see manufacturers listing, Art-Net (WIFI/RJ45), ILDA (Parallel/RJ45), DMX (3-pin/RJ45). It seems that the 3pin DMX connection is on some cheaper lasers, and newer lasers seem to be shifting from the ILDA parallel cable to an RJ45 connection. Are more manufacturers open to art-net controls, and if so, what are the specs / parameters needed to control from a software development side?

Info:

1. Art-Net (WiFi/RJ45): Art-Net is a protocol used for transmitting DMX data over Ethernet networks. It is widely supported in the lighting industry and allows for control of a large number of fixtures over a network. Art-Net is suitable for controlling lasers in situations where Ethernet connectivity is available and preferred. It provides a scalable solution and is often used in professional settings.
   
   
2. ILDA (Parallel/RJ45): ILDA (International Laser Display Association) is a standard for controlling laser projectors via a parallel interface. It is a well-established protocol in the laser industry but is gradually being replaced by more modern interfaces like Ethernet (RJ45). ILDA is still widely supported by many laser projectors and control systems, but its use may decline over time as newer technologies become more prevalent.
   
   
3. DMX (3-pin/RJ45): DMX (Digital Multiplex) is a standard protocol used for controlling lighting fixtures, including lasers, via a serial data connection. It is commonly used in the entertainment industry and is supported by many laser projectors. DMX is suitable for controlling lasers in situations where a dedicated lighting control system is used, and compatibility with other DMX-controlled fixtures is required.

Is there a dream/desire for a more universal / open-source laser control protocol? (outside of the ones mentioned above). Or if we were working on a free video-to-laser plugin, should we focus mainly on ILDA or Art-Net and ignore the rest? What additionally considerations should we consider adding for controlling different laser brands or multiple lasers (standard crop, masking, and warp tools).

Thank you for your time.

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Check into IDN. It is/was intended to be the next generation software protocol and hardware for laser show content. Not sure it will ever happen. For now, ILDA is still the open transfer format for content and connectivity.

ILDA and IDN, and in some cases system specific SDKs, can convey images. DMX conveys / cues timing of stored images and possibly effects related to a given system, if implemented. Don't know about ARTNET / OSC one more thing to learn.

ILDA is the analog "Last mile" to a projector, it needs a set of analog signals tied to beam deflection and color created by a DAC chip or other means.

All very different things, and sometimes integrated at some hardware point.

Google ILDA Glossary, and ILDA Standards.. IDN is more modern, is digital but eventually has to become analog some place in the system hardware, but is not always adapted by all projector manufacturers.

Nearly all systems will have ILDA inputs direct to the Galvo Scanners, or a SDK related to installed control hardware, in many cases both.

Steve

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Originally Posted by mixedgas

ILDA and IDN, and in some cases system specific SDKs, can convey images. DMX conveys / cues timing of stored images and possibly effects related to a given system, if implemented. Don't know about ARTNET / OSC one more thing to learn.

ILDA is the analog "Last mile" to a projector, it needs a set of analog signals tied to beam deflection and color created by a DAC chip or other means.

All very different things, and sometimes integrated at some hardware point.

Google ILDA Glossary, and ILDA Standards.. IDN is more modern, is digital but eventually has to become analog some place in the system hardware, but is not always adapted by all projector manufacturers.

Nearly all systems will have ILDA inputs direct to the Galvo Scanners, or a SDK related to installed control hardware, in many cases both.

Steve

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Thanks Steve. So what I'm gathering, is it makes more sense to program for a specific interface vs a projector protocol, being that the interface handles the communication to the projector. I have an older Ether Dream to get started with.

You can also save a precomputed image to an ILDA file, nearly everyone who is a serious user can read Dot.ILD with their existing show controller. However that is not real time.

Etherdream can be a good start. It's a minority product compared to Pangolin's FB4, but the more avant guard the user, the more likely they are to have an Etherdream or even a Helios.

Generally advanced users will often have both, or even all three.

I would take the time to learn how to protect galvos from overdrive, they have very limited bandwidth.

In the laser show vector graphics world, video to vector is known as making "raster" frames. it can be very limiting.
You have a mechanical retrace, it's not fast. You may need to consider bidirectional scanning and serious downsampling of an image to make it fit. Or even spiral scanning to eliminate all but one blanked retrace

1/Kpps = generally solves for the update rate of the diode drivers, cheap systems may not modulate either linearly or fast. Often software providers have to spend a lot of time on color controls for linearity, offset, etc. It can be very frustrating for a video developer to try to go to raster on galvos. A lot of waveshaping may need to happen, and despite the ILDA test pattern, a bit of tweeking may be needed to deal with different tuning of the galvo's amplifer PID settings from projector to projector. Only the high end galvos have DSP in their drivers etc. The ILDA standards are oriented to allow artistic interchange of content, not to make perfectly standardized hardware.

1.5 to 3.0 Khz bandwidth can be the norm with galvos. They are inertial beasts .

it is not unusual for R G and B drivers to have very, very, large
differences from laser to laser, as well. Users may need lots of adjustability from your code. Often we store color pallettes or color response curves for each projector.

Good rasters take time and patience to create.

Jacob, Etherdream's creator, can be very helpful.

It's like 15 or 20years old, but one of my favorites is called "Linea" and Steve Heminover's work is on Youtuube.

If you have questions, I'm around. Please try, new tools and plug-ins are always appreciated.


Steve

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Originally Posted by mixedgas

You can also save a precomputed image to an ILDA file, nearly everyone who is a serious user can read Dot.ILD with their existing show controller.

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Unless you're dealing with 'certain ethnic' projectors with SD card input... *nyancat

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Originally Posted by dchammonds

Unless you're dealing with 'certain ethnic' projectors with SD card input... *nyancat

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Dean,

I didn't want to tell him...I really didn't. 7 color on/off systems without analog color still sell to beginners with no budget. . They clamor for hope from off brand independent software developers, looking for miracles. We try to help, but what's under the hood is usually a 20-30 year old piece of code running on an 8051 derivative at eight bit resolution. Usually the galvos clip at 15 Kpps, too. OUCH! Usually less then 200$ a unit. Everyone wishes they'd go away.

On the other hand there are projectors out there with Scannermax Saturn's at 60 to 90 Kpps on small angle.
Rare, but amazingly capable. Those system owners will also beat a path to the door of a vendor of good rasters.

Recent developments using galvos in the science world use complex lissajous patterns to speed data gathering versus using linear rasters.. Beware of patents, however. Nothing new, just was rediscovered and reapplied, then patented for microscopy.

I was privileged to visit the lab that rediscovered it, used a resonant scanner for one axis to gain speed. Beautiful images for confocal microscopy.

Steve

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Originally Posted by JohnYayas

Check into IDN. It is/was intended to be the next generation software protocol and hardware for laser show content. Not sure it will ever happen. For now, ILDA is still the open transfer format for content and connectivity.

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+1 for this. There will be news about IDN soon.
It can take a long time to be fully adopted but I still think it is the best bet for an open industry standard for networked lasers in the future.

But for now, ILDA analog cables and DACs that support them are still the most accessible. Depending on your programming language you can find libraries that abstract away individual protocols and support output to several products.

Regarding IDN, the protocol specifications are over on https://www.ilda.com/idn.htm

They have so much detail, some consider them a little bit unwieldily to begin with. But if you look at the excellent Wireshark explanation that can be download on that same page too, it quickly starts to makes sense.

Its adoption has been quite gradual, but as Gitle indicated there are some exciting things with IDN soon to be announced.

It's definitely worth looking at.

James