Using Scrim for Safety purposes

Hey Gang,

I have been doing research on PL regarding the use of scrim for visual enhancement but couldn't track down using scrim for blocking beams.

Here's what I'm trying to accomplish,

There is a roughly 6x8 foot square opening from the dancefloor to the mezzanine where the bartenders are. I was originally going to use beam block on the aperture of the laser to cover this area as well as block it out with my software settings but then I though about the use of Scrim to allow the bartender to see through to the dancefloor but allow safe beam projecting in that area with scrim.

The projector is 1.3watt and will be projecting roughly 20 feet away. Do you think Tulle/scrim from the fabric store will allow to see through but be safe enough for the bartender in site.

If there is way to much mathematics involved then I'm not even going to attempt this idea as safety is absolute key to my work but this venue is a bit tricky as there are a ton of mirror ball and wall mirrors so I'm going to be doing enough calculating. But if's a easy and safe idea then I'm going to have at it and try it out.



The far left of it will be blocked off but just to the right is a vertical post beam where the only access to it being torn down is the staff at the bar so safety of it being pulled down is a non issue. I am looking to put it from the beam right to the wall. It is also shown at the end of the video. There is a logo on a balloon where I want to cover.


Also the mylar decoration are all down so it is black and blue on the walls and posts.

Attachment 16227

Thanks for your ideas and suggestions,
Matt

Hi Matt -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mattatya

I was originally going to use beam block on the aperture of the laser to cover this area as well as block it out with my software settings but then I though about the use of Scrim to allow the bartender to see through to the dancefloor but allow safe beam projecting in that area with scrim.

The projector is 1.3watt and will be projecting roughly 20 feet away. Do you think Tulle/scrim from the fabric store will allow to see through but be safe enough for the bartender in site.

---

IMO, I'd go with the beam-blocks and attenuation-mapping... best-case 'attenuation' you could hope for, from scrim would be from multiple-layers of black, true 'sharkstooth-mesh' theater scrim (NOT the PL-featured 'Skeeta Skrim' and/or any-old 'sheer' fabric from a store - cause, yes, you also have to think about fire-retardantcy...) and, even then, it would only really be 'safe' if you measured / tested the 'thruput' behind the scrim - no 'guessing'... :cool:

...Remember - the whole *purpose* of scrim is to PASS the laser light, for atmospheric / aerial effect....

Just some food for thought... :cool:
peace..
j

Thanks dsli_jon for your input, I'm sticking with the beam block for this one :cool:

it would certainly not be FDA approved, but if you want to make something fire-proof, you may dip the scrim in a boric acid solution (but it has to be non-synthetic scrim, and bending it at sharp angles will remove some of the cristalized boric acid... maybe add some fluo jello?)

The projector is a 2watt RGV that would be over 20 feet from the area I was looking to scrim. I am going to most likely beam block the projector to keep that area safety. That fire retardant would be a great idea if I decide to do some close up visuals though but that is something I will do down the road when I have a full understanding of the use of scrim for shows.

that's the point... no fire retardant will enable you to project through a scrim safely at audience level

good luck with your venue though, as it seems it will be like shooting a laserscope through a glass maze :)

(I'd be curious to see a bluray beam through a fog-filled glass maze :))

This venue has a lot of areas I am going to have to work around including mirrors and disco balls everywhere. That OP pic is horrible. Because of some of the heavy disco ball and mirror wall I am going to have Rick with Slick Lasers come by and give me some pointers on the safest ways to operate the projector at this venue. If I was in a big emty hall I would have no problems but this disco has a ton of detail to keep with all the safety guidelines. I am hoping to incorperate some scrim at some point in the future and will have Rick give his opinion regarding safety. Its really hard to describe over the net.

btw what does the glass maze mean? Are you talking about obstacles? There are 4 vertical beam on the dancefloor that is going to obstruct some of the beams but they are painted black with no mirrors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mattatya

The projector is a 2watt RGV that would be over 20 feet from the area I was looking to scrim. I am going to most likely beam block the projector to keep that area safety. That fire retardant would be a great idea if I decide to do some close up visuals though but that is something I will do down the road when I have a full understanding of the use of scrim for shows.

---

The fire retardant is not a 'great idea'. It's MANDATORY.

As in, if a fire were to start in the venue, and it propagates/accelerates through your scrim because it's not treated properly, you can be held accountable for any damage caused.

The stuff is not to ensure your laser doesn't ignite the scrim. It's there to make sure a starting fire stays where it is, and doesn't go running through the entire venue to become a BIG fire where people die.

then boric acid or borax is the way to go if you want to retard fire on non treated fabrics (really works, try it, impossible to light a piece of fabric when prealably dipped in then dried)

another nice thing about boric acid is when poured in a small bowl and mixed with alcohol, it makes a green flame (not useful, but nice)

maybe I'm a little off-topic, but these glass mazes are what you see in amusement parks, mazes made out of glass and mirrors, and I felt the analogy was nice :)

Hi Stoney3k,

Sounds like I came across like it was a good idea to fire proof scrim but that was not what I was saying was a "good idea'

I was saying the quote below was a good idea,

Quote:

---

dip the scrim in a boric acid solution (but it has to be non-synthetic scrim, and bending it at sharp angles will remove some of the cristalized boric acid... maybe add some fluo jello?)

---

I plan on buying screening products that are already fireretardent.

Shrad mentioned that not using fire retardant will enable you to project through a scrim safely at audience level.

But then it is a fire danger.

It sounds like Cinefoil beam block is the best route to go until I get this screen safety 100% dialed down at this venue.


Shrad, The blueray is not going to do a hell of a lot but It's a start until I work my way up to a true blue on the projector.

:D

shrad,

The venue is full of mirrors. I will have get a good pic of it. There is one wall that is a huge mirror that I am beam blocking and in the back of the dancefloor there is the biggest disco ball in Seattle Wa. They pulled it from another club that closed and they couldn't even fit it in the door. They had to pull the bar out of the double door to get it in lol. There are also 4 pillar mirrors built into the centerpiece. The lighting is amazing though a this venue. They have put a lot of time and money into it.

well then I wish you a lot of luck getting all this sorted

PS: I never wanted to say a scrim would be safe to crowd-scan ^^ that must be the language barrier lol

(and there was no intention to discuss bluray efficiency, I was just thinking a bluray in a glass/mirror area bouncing everywhere on fog would be beautiful... I even didn't know you had bluray :rolleyes:)

Hey Mattatya, where's the gig and when? I want to come down and see the biggest disco ball in Seattle :desire: and check out your lasers.

Mike

No worries Shrad,

It was late and I wasn't clearly typing well.
I'm excited to be putting blueray in the projector. I would prefer true blue but its just out of my budget and I wanted to get the biggest bang for my buck on red and green and throw a blue in there later on. The blueray is going to look great though vs having just a a RGY.

(Blowfly)
I am looking to demo the laser at the Cuff Complex in Seattle on the 1st and 3rd Saturdays. I am a DJ there and spin pretty much big room tribal, progressive and breaks at that venue (I personally enjoy electro and breaks). We are hoping to start renting our laser services but want to showcase the laser their as a way to set my DJ name apart form the other DJ's that spin there. Lots of DJ's use uplighting and video projection in the dj booth but I wanted to take it a step further and get something unforgettable in there. They will only see that projector there when I spin unless the club wants to hire my laser service on their holiday events. I'm hopping to drum up businesses with some of the underground promoters and fundraisers that patron there and offer services outside of just DJing. My partner and I both have our variance so I can still DJ when the laser is being rented out.

You are welcome to stop by but it is 95% a gay bar so if you are comfortable in your own skin it would be great to meet you. The video is a clip of the dancefloor with that big ass disco ball in the back of the room lighting up the hole venue by two Martin fixed gobo projectors.

The Disco ball came out of the old Timberline at 2015 Boren Ave. When they closed down years back a patron bid on it on ebay but had no room for it so he asked if the Cuff wanted to use it as a install. That ball has been around for years and is in perfect condition. I think the patron just didn't want it to leave Seattle. It was a centerpiece that lit up the whole Timberline lodge for years.

Hears video of the ball http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a-pyhUCMaQ Its in the back corner of the video

Sounds awesome. Lasers seem like a really good way to differenciate your production. They seem particularly rare in Seattle.

I'll come down and say hi sometime when you get your projector set up. I've been to the Cuff a couple times for the late night dancing. From the video you linked it looks like they have invested the lighting and stuff since i was there. I certain don't remember a giant disco ball! That was many years ago in my pre-mortgage pre-kids days. Speaking of which it's past my bedtime :p.

Good luck with everything!
Mike

I'm sad I never experienced the montage.
The Cuff has changed a lot recently and the crowd has become very young though its still a blast to DJ there and I can get away with a lot of different genres I like to play.

I'm there the 1st and 3rd Saturday but the 1st Saturday is the best. Still open till 3 too.