Entry Level Beam Show Software

I'd like to take an informal poll of everyone's opinions on the entry level laser show software that is currently on the market.

First, by entry level, I mean a cost less than $750 US. Also, for our purposes here, I'm not particularly interested in graphics capability or the ability to control multiple units.

What I am interested in is software that allows me to create beam shows perfectly timed to music and idealy integrating DMX control, as my show will also include traditional stage lighting.

At this point, I'm considering Pangolin QuickShow and MediaLas's Mamba Elements, but all options are on the table.

I look forward to your opinions.

At this point, Spaghetti would fit the bill, be simple to use and only costs $50.
LDS (Laser Design Studio) Basic costs more but is quite a bit more capable. There's a demo available.

Pangolin FB3, which comes with Quickshow and LA Studio package will get you in below your price point. It is *very* capable hardware/software. It is well above entry level.

I've not used Spaghetti or LDS personally (nor am i knocking them), just have no experience with them.

Screw entry level; double your budget... and get a QM2000. *retardo

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Originally Posted by allthatwhichis

Screw entry level; double your budget... and get a QM2000. *retardo

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I'll second that...

If it's just out of reach, get an FB3. You won't be disappointed.

What do I get with 2000 that I don't get with QuickShow? I've read the product descriptions, but would like to know what difference it will make day in/out as I'm developing and performing my shows.

I'm not finding the FB3 for sale or on the Pangolin website. Is that a discontinued product?

Also, why no love for the MediaLas Software?

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Originally Posted by LightMaster01

I'm not finding the FB3 for sale or on the Pangolin website. Is that a discontinued product?

Also, why no love for the MediaLas Software?

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I agonised for a good while about what hardware to get. I plumped for Flashback 3 (FB3) in the end - I got the SE version which is just a bare card (a very nice member of PL built an enclosure for me). I did this because of its support for DMX control, which is very important to me because I control a whole bunch of lights as well as lasers. The Flashback 3 XE which Pangolin make comes ready in a box but can't be controlled by DMX.

Now that isn't the end of the story. Quickshow looks great, but you can't do much with it DMX-wise. That's because the FB3 DMX protocol accesses data stored on the SD card which comes with the device. To upload laser show data to the SD, you need LiveQuick (which comes on the Quickshow CD), which is kind of a naffer version of Quickshow. Depressingly, Quickshow will not allow export of its data in a format that LiveQuick can read (not even ILD!), and Quickshow does not have any support for the SD card on the FB3 at all. Zilch. Zero. Nil. SFA. So whilst in itself Quickshow is great if all you have is a laser or two to drive, I have to say that for my needs - which I don't think are particularly odd - I am mildly whelmed by the package. I have also found Pangolin support to be a bit abrasive and dismissive, but it is usually prompt.

As for Medialas, I played with the Mamba 2 demo for hours and found it pretty fiddly to use. The big plus with Mamba 2 is the DMX support - I could drive my lighting entirely from the software (I didn't want to be running multiple pieces of software if I could avoid it). However, that is only possible from the timeline on Mamba. For live performance, Mamba is frankly rubbish - the dialog is tool small and there is no DMX support. With Quickshow you just click on a pattern, and bingo! you have pretty lights. OTOH if you want DMX out of Quickshow (which has been promised in a forthcoming release), you can't use the FB3, you need an additional interface. Medialas tech supp has been patchy - it took over 3 weeks to answer a question I had about their DMX support, by which time I had moved on.

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Originally Posted by smokeAndMirrors

Now that isn't the end of the story. Quickshow looks great, but you can't do much with it DMX-wise. <snip> So whilst in itself Quickshow is great if all you have is a laser or two to drive, I have to say that for my needs - which I don't think are particularly odd - I am mildly whelmed by the package. I have also found Pangolin support to be a bit abrasive and dismissive, but it is usually prompt.
<snip>
I could drive my lighting entirely from the software (I didn't want to be running multiple pieces of software if I could avoid it). However, that is only possible from the timeline on Mamba. For live performance, Mamba is frankly rubbish - the dialog is tool small and there is no DMX support. <snip> OTOH if you want DMX out of Quickshow (which has been promised in a forthcoming release), you can't use the FB3, you need an additional interface.

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Ok, this conversation has been had already, but I think you need to clarify the key points of this.

First off, no laser software manufacturer (that I'm aware of) produces a product that is designed to simultaneously run lasers and a full lighting rig. DMX support is provided for the purpose of controlling things like foggers, special effects, etc which will have a limited number of channels, and not require a grand user interface development to accomodate.

What you are trying to do with the product might be 'possible' but it certainly wasn't part of the main design brief, and therefore you are finding it a less than satisfactory experience. I can only re-iterate, if you want a lighting desk, buy a lighting desk. Your insistence to have a single piece of software doing everything is what is causing you problems. This is not a problem with the software/hardware, it is a problem with your expectations.

It strikes me as slightly odd that you complain about QS not being good with DMX, seeing as you don't really want to use it anyway. I thought you wanted to be able to control your lasers via DMX, so that you could run them from your lighting desk. In that case QS is redundant.

I've got to say, choosing to buy an FB3, and then electing to use it on DMX purely because you want everything on 1 machine/refuse to spend £100 on a second PC is like buying a Ferrari and then towing it around with a Ford Fiesta.

well that's not entirely true

phoenix 3 does dmx in and out it also has a full library of dmx lighting and a 3d visualizer for both you laser and dmx lighting show

and can control 10 universes of dmx 10x 512 channels and 10 ilda lasers (pro plus version )

its not cheap but it is very capable (the pro version is one universe comes with one dac pro plus is 10 universes also comes with one dac but you can add 9 more)

and live can do 4 universes also only comes with one dac and you can add 3 more(and no 3d visualizer)

youtube of 3d visualizer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQcsS...eature=related

phoenix web site

http://www.phoenix-showcontroller.com/

phoenix store with prices

http://shop.phoenix-showcontroller.de/

I know that some people on this forum have had bad experiences with Laserworld hardware, but their Showeditor laser show software is actually quite good, - free demo download, timeline based, ILDA file import, also does DMX control, and loads of free music-synced shows for free download - see http://en.laserworld.com/en/showedit...e-support.html

You'll probably get the best deal on it by bidding on Ebay.

Current Ebay auction - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Also, I've just checked with Laserworld - very fast reply from them, btw - and it seems that you can update Showeditor 2007, 2008, and 2009 to the newest 2010 version at no extra charge.

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Originally Posted by norty303

Ok, this conversation has been had already, but I think you need to clarify the key points of this.

First off, no laser software manufacturer (that I'm aware of) produces a product that is designed to simultaneously run lasers and a full lighting rig. DMX support is provided for the purpose of controlling things like foggers, special effects, etc which will have a limited number of channels, and not require a grand user interface development to accomodate.

What you are trying to do with the product might be 'possible' but it certainly wasn't part of the main design brief, and therefore you are finding it a less than satisfactory experience. I can only re-iterate, if you want a lighting desk, buy a lighting desk. Your insistence to have a single piece of software doing everything is what is causing you problems. This is not a problem with the software/hardware, it is a problem with your expectations.

It strikes me as slightly odd that you complain about QS not being good with DMX, seeing as you don't really want to use it anyway. I thought you wanted to be able to control your lasers via DMX, so that you could run them from your lighting desk. In that case QS is redundant.

I've got to say, choosing to buy an FB3, and then electing to use it on DMX purely because you want everything on 1 machine/refuse to spend £100 on a second PC is like buying a Ferrari and then towing it around with a Ford Fiesta.

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What I want - now - is simple. Allow QS to export its patterns as ILD - or proprietary format, I care not - so that LiveQuick can write them to the FB3's SD card. And then I am happy.

Alternatively, let QS write to the FB3's SD card. Po-tay-to po-tah-to.

Hey, wasn't meaning to come over all preachy, it's been one of those fridays at work I'm afraid... (supposed to be happy the weeks over...)
I suppose it's seeing a bit of a square peg, round hole scenario in your case, and the fact that you could get so much more out of the lasers going the full ilda control route.
As someone who also does lasers and lighting (and also used to run lasers from DMX off the LX desk) its not really any hassle to have the 2 separate control systems, and brings so much more flexibility (imo)

I think that part of the reason why QS and LQ are not compatible at the moment is because QS is based on the Beyond framework, and so renders the frames in a completely different way. Bill has made comment about portability of frame/cue formats before on PL.
It'll be interesting to see what the next proper release of QS brings, as it might have some of this addressed.
Certainly I can understand why exporting to ILD is not supported from a copyright perspective.

Oh, and the key words in my last post were 'that I'm aware of'. I'm now aware of Phoenix, thanks ;)

Completely OT, is anyone else not seeing a post reply button? The only option I get is reply with quote.

A guy in Canada is using Spaghetti to control multiple laser projectors, a video projector, multiple DMX lighting devices (cans, moving heads) and fog machines. All from a single Spaghetti show.

how's he splitting the signals to multiple laser projectors? I know you can pretty easily just split off once from the source, but to do more than two projectors requires some circuitry. I've actually been looking for a buffer system that would allow me to split off to 3-4 projectors, but the only one I know of is apparently not available anymore.

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Originally Posted by ElektroFreak

how's he splitting the signals to multiple laser projectors?

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He might be using buffered outputs, but I'll be that he's showing different things on each projector using multiple DACs. If you've invested in buying a second projector, make it more entertaining by displaying different stuff!

I do not intend to control lights via laser software or vice versa. My intention is to use a lighting desk (probably a wholehog-based system) to control lights and laser software to control lasers.

Since we have so many DMX/Laser folks here I'll go ahead and ask this question. When doing a heavily pre-programed, sychronized show is it better to have light board trigger laser control, laser control to trigger light board, or for both to be triggered by some sort of time code?

I've never done this kind of work (only worked simple live concerts), so any assistance you can give on coordinating these systems would be appreciated.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by LightMaster01

Since we have so many DMX/Laser folks here I'll go ahead and ask this question. When doing a heavily pre-programed, sychronized show is it better to have light board trigger laser control, laser control to trigger light board, or for both to be triggered by some sort of time code?

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I would say, the best way would be to have the Lighting console running the laser software.. The DMX implementation in Pangolin's LivePRO pretty much allows you to control the laser much like a extra fixture. Ie, you cwill have individual control over color, movement, and laser patterns (gobo's) individually, much like a intelligent light.. Would make its a lot easier for one person to do 2 jobs. The only catch here is you will need to go for broke and get a LD2000/QM2000 combo and LivePRO as well. You might as well go straight for something that does everything you need, and much more again. :D

To control multiple lasers you have to have a projector that has buffered outputs. We already have this in our projectors. Mccarrot designed a board for this but SRS has an elite version of this board.
If you send SRS an email he can explain you about the board. And wich is your favorite. Like i said in a PM we can build you a quality projector but at a certain cost. I will implement the board from SRS in a projector for you if you want. We are flexible and our projector are better quality then Laserworld. I ,m guarantee you that. Mccarrot can supply the lasers and other parts so shoot him a pm if you want.

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Originally Posted by dave

...go for broke and get a LD2000/QM2000 combo and LivePRO as well. You might as well go straight for something that does everything you need, and much more again. :D

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My suggestion exactly... and he got much more experience. :cool: