660nm LOC diodes used on some dancers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=penFqn_jw_4
created this effect for a client, hope you like it.
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660nm LOC diodes used on some dancers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=penFqn_jw_4
created this effect for a client, hope you like it.
O_o is this really safe?
otherwise, it looks really nice!
Yeah, if the dancers dont fall of the podium
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrad
hahah lololol i made it 12 seconds and could see that that is definitely an eye hazard.
WTF country are you blinding people in...hahaha
come on andy...but is there a brain in the houseaaaaa.
Don't bully andy, he's my buddy !
- He's an ilda member.
- He's got years of experience.
- His lasers have trade-secret-safety-technology inside.
- He has a spotless reputation he can afford to squander.
- The safety of lasers can't be judged on youtube videos, ever !
Therefore ... it is safe... end of debate [popcorn]
You are all damaging the laser business, by questioning his safety in the first place.
Safety safety safety....is that safetylexicon forum ??? :mad:
This effect is great ! that's all ! What about batteries ? it must take some spaces ?
kl79, would you really sit in front of these dancers?
I'd certainly not do that
if you look at the beams you can see they are not 5mW, and they fly in all direction to the eyes of dozens of people
so yes, safetylexicon is a good thing, and so shood be safetyfreak... I personally think there is not enough safety at laserfreak !!! (the retinal spots I have testify, and that could be said of many laserfreak members...)
He only post his video to show it to us...if there is always replys about "safety", I think we will not be able to see other pict or vids...
and if he make a big spot with his loc, is that really so dangerous ?
This effect is nice and that's all !
His lasers have trade-secret-safety-technology inside.
hahaha - funnie stuff right there.
it is a cool effect in a retina burn sort of way. That is why I asked what country is he blinding people in, some countries need some culling.
shrad asked if "it was safe", andy answered "yeah, if the dancers dont fall off the podium" Then you go on speculating about beam size and YADA FREAKIN YADA heard it a zillion times.
Just tell the truth. It is safe up to the point until a beam hits someone in the eye for >1 second. It is easy to tell the truth.
this was also a very cool effect until something went wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZx4i1TwZME
I am not comparing andys effects to this event... im just saying..."shit happens"
Hey-
I love all you guys to death. I, nor anyone here i dont think would ever question most of you pros expertise, but i just feel like this whole "safety" thing especially as of late, is just getting to the point of scare tactics. i AM NOT saying that you guys are wrong or just trying to scare us i am just saying that *every* picture and/or video posted on this forum lately has had some sort of "Wow, that looks like it blinded someone" comment associated with it. I am all for safety. As i think everyone here is. it just seems to me like we cant enjoy pictures and/or video anymore of anyones work without *somebody* jumping in and questioning the legalities or safety of the effects.
Every single time anyone posts a video or picture of a something laser related, within 2 or 3 posts the thread goes from orignal intention of "look at this nice work" to....what eyes were melted in the making of this video/photo. Yes, of course sometimes videos/pics look questionable. And yes, honestly, even this video looked a little questionable. but thats just it- it *appeared* questionable. it *appeared* like some pretty decent power. I for one can't tell for sure. Nor do any of us know ANY sort of safety factors that were taken into account. For all we know they could be 10mW fat beam reds with all of the audience behind a Laser shield. Who knows??!!
look, we are all "Laserists" here at some level or another. Other than "prodjallen," i (that i am aware of) have not seen one member here delibirately disregard safety. We are all safety conscious and i dont think would ever put anyone in harms way. Sometimes things may look questionable, sometimes things may appear dangerous, ok...ill agree with that. but if there were *really* as many unsafe laser shows and effects that have been questioned here on the forum in the past few months, there would be thousands of melted eye individuals roaming this planet. And as far as i am aware, there still have been ZERO reports of any laser related injuires (cumulative, instantaneous, or any combination there-of) anywhere in the world.
I really enjoy seeing everyones work. home party laser shows to Superbowl Laser shows to everything in between. I try to learn as much as i can from EVERYONE. I just would really enjoy to see a posted video or picture and actually see a discussion on the ARTISTIC element of the show rather than the *possible* safety infractions of the show.
Im not defending anyone nor "attacking" anyone. Just simply stating that i am an objectionable individual. I love seeing everyones work, becasue it can help me become better. I would hate to have my work questioned every single time i tried to share it with people who are supposed to be colleagues of mine who share the same passion as me.
-Marc
Pat,
Now you posted the link from the club distaster I am just about tired of your idiotic behaviour, to post a video from a disco where people were burnt alive is just sick. You should remove that link you put as really it makes your scanity questionable.
I also request that if Pat refuses to remove the link then the webmaster should do it as PL is not a forum to post such links.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserman532
marc, hugs and kisses by the way.
just be truthful is all I ask.
fact- there have been eye injuries at "laser shows" hence "laser safety"
If you wanted to do this effect in the US and had an inspector show up...Would it be approved?
He could have stated...it is safe as long as the dancers continue to move as if they are having epileptic seizures. Just tell the truth.
With your analogy of all the laser shows being performed and very few blinded audience members, tracking an aircraft with a pointer should be "no problem".
safety is safety. Some newbie may see his video and think it is ok and safe to do it.
hugs my friend:D
for everyone who says that it is no problem should make a post saying..."it is no problem because........................"
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyf97
fact- those were professionals, performing their profession...un professionally...shit happens.
If you choose...start a poll "should laserman532 be banned for telling the truth".
you posted "your show" i didnt. This is a public forum.
What have US laws got to do with this? I think we all know he's not in the US.Quote:
If you wanted to do this effect in the US and had an inspector show up...Would it be approved?
Not saying it's safe or otherwise, but why are the US rules always used as a benchmark for what is a global forum?
We all work up to what the law allows us to do (or generally try to in most cases). If the US laws were different I bet a whole heap of you would be crowd scanning, however because (until recently) it was a total no-no, anything that seems to involve a beam in the crowd seems to elicit some sort of response.
That said...
Wow, are you crazy fool or what..... (etc, etc, ho-hum...)
To me it's as simple as this:
IF there ever are any more eye injuries at laser shows (the Russian incident ring a bell?) it will adversely affect the ENTIRE industry, JUST LIKE eye injuries from laser pointers will adversely affect it..
People here bitch SO MUCH about laser pointers and their potential hazards, so it makes absolutely no sense to let these potential safety violations go unchallenged. Let's try not to have too much of a double-standard, mmkay? Safety is safety. No one should be exempt from scrutiny IMO. If Pat or someone else doesn't bring it up, I'd be happy to.
Well its only a double standard if you're one of the people who has bitched about the pointers.
I simply don't see the point in them (ba-dum tsch!)
The views of some do not represent the views of the whole, which is why this thread is divided on opinion.
dear norty, you missed the point my question was to marc. I know for a fact that the majority of third world countries are backwards and have little regard for public safety. just think of airline maintenance requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by norty303
Do you think it was safe? Would you put your kids in the front row?
One 250mw beam in the crowd does elicit some sort of response and 60 of them elicits 60x.
Does this look like a crazy fool to you? Honest and hugable:D
Pat, You call youself hugable, honest type of guy but also post video links where people are burning alive, quite a contrast isnt it. Also a little odd for a guy to say he is huggable on a laser forum, sending kisses to other guys on the forum. Kind of freaky. are you looking for a date?
Third world countries are backwards, am sure people bow to you being so forward, technically more advanced and superior to everyone on the planet are you also a racist.
Would you put your kids in the front row? what a stupid comment. Who would allow the children if thats what you mean to go to a over 21s night club where they are doing all types of druggs, booze and sex in the washroom.
Maybe Pat 'mighty one godly like master of all', you should look more closely at yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserman532
Don't get mad, get honest. Questioning someone's sexual orientation has nothing to with laser safety..
If you come here and post footage of potentially unsafe shows and then expect us all to say nothing about the obvious safety hazards depicted, you're expecting something that ain't gonna happen.
All it takes to get us to shut up is for you to briefly, and without including any IP, describe how it is safe. Perhaps the divergence on the lasers is increased, or there is attenuation mapping.. these things are not IP. While it's true that you are under no obligation to provide this info, it's a public forum. We are allowed to question you as we see fit.
Personally, I think you enjoy the shit you stir up here by your constant avoidance of these simple questions and your feelings that your "safety methods" are trade secrets. As long as I'm here, I'll be calling you out. Hopefully others here are also willing to help promote safe shows by boycotting and calling out those who do them without regard for safety.
As of presently, you seem to be doing unsafe shows. The burden of proving otherwise in on you. If you choose not to provide said proof, then you can't get upset when we say your shows are unsafe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyf97
hmmmmmm, not sure how to respond to this, but ill try... Principles are like lighthouses...they dont move and they become a beacon for all to see. I was trained by pioneers of the industry and have a very high level of standards. I will put those standards as a light to follow or to crash onto the rocks...it is your decision.
Even if my child was over 21 I would suggest that he avoid MANY dangers, but to mention a few...doing drugs, booze and having sex in the washroom and being blasted in the eyes with dangerous levels of laser light would be among them.
Fact- your laser display was outright dangerous and irresponsible which calls your professionalism and judgment into question. I already admitted it was cool in a retinal damage sort of way. Lighten up, you act as if mom caught you with your hand in the cookie jar.
You might have me confused with this guy.
No point missed I assure you.Quote:
dear norty, you missed the point my question was to marc
In asking Marc if he would do the show in US, you are directly comparing what was shown in the vid, against what you might/might not get away with in the US, albeit in the context of a question to Marc.
My point is general one, based on observation of these things over time here, highlighted by recent posts in this thread.
You gotta love these threads really though ;) Hugely entertaining, based on both videos and dialogue! (not the death one of course, that would be wrong...)
I think it might be an 'Andy' thing as well, he's like a honey trap! Post any of your 'risky' shots near the time Andy puts a thread up, you'll go unnoticed....
Hugs :love:
It's certainly true that the US has draconian and outdated laser safety laws compared to many other countries, but the core principles and methodology of laser safety are the same no matter what country you're in. It isn't proper to require any show in the world to meet US requirements IMO, but safety is safety. It's as simple as that to me.
Well if he's doing it for the kicks, its sure working - every time, people bite...Quote:
Personally, I think you enjoy the shit you stir up here
My point was not about laws made by institutions...it was about safety and ones integrity.Quote:
Originally Posted by norty303
The nightclub incident was a tragedy which was meant to emphasize that even professionals fuck up. Albeit posting it was possibly in poor taste, it solidifies the fact that even in controlled situations severe accidents may result at the lack of judgment on a single persons actions. The video MUST be a constant reminder that there is NO excuse when it comes to the safety of the general public or "YOUR" audience even if the effect is "cool".
Andys shows are totally safe...until an accident happens.
I think Pat is just jealous he is not alowed to do those nice show in the US>:)
Because of this he just post sick movies :mad:
ncie effect andy, just keep those dancers moving ;)
ya caught me...dang...*retardoQuote:
Originally Posted by mccarrot
Pat.
Apart from spending a lot of time on forums bitching to people, I have no idea what credencials you have to critisize anyone.
A little about me:
I am not a kid living in a US street and playing with Laserscopes in my garage, I am 43 years old and have two decades of public events experience some with audiences of 100,000+. I work on very large scale events and do a hell of a lot of effects for TV. I have won several awards, been personally on TV in several european countries to talk about laser shows. I have a pyrotechnics company and laser shows company and employ 40 people in 5 different countries. Also I have been a corporate ILDA member for six years.
I guess that means I am un-professional.
one other point,
I put the videos for general interest, to inspire. If pat and his friend want to stir it up, thats there choice, its not me doing any stiring. I am not 12 years old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyf97
Between the unsafe shows and questioning peoples sexuality, it kinda looks like you are..
Interesting you should mention Laserscopes.. To my knowledge Pat was one of the first.. if not THE first... to convert and use them for laser shows.. but I'm sure he's aware of his qualifications. He doesn't need my help. As far as myself.. I have no qualifications. Compared to you and Pat I have practically no experience.. but I do believe that safety is of PARAMOUNT importance to this industry. That's why I agree with Pat 110%.
Speaking for myself I find very little inspiring about posting potentially unsafe shows. What are you trying to do? Inspire people to follow suit?
HAHAHA,
Laserscopes for laser shows !!!!!!, that is a lot more safe than a LOC diode.
Bravo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElektroFreak
Nope, but it doesn't mean you're safe either. However it might imply you're safe based on having done so many jobs in highly professional environments.Quote:
I guess that means I am un-professional
Your professionalism is not equal to your responsible performance in this case. If you stand by your work and you feel it is up to your standards then that is fine...for you....Quote:
Originally Posted by andyf97
but ANY true professional would determine that your "laser display" was irresponsible. Most people think it, but few are bold enough to state it. Go back to work now, be nice to your audience...they rely on you for their safety.
EDIT...I forgot to add my resume... Been there, done that, got the t-shirt & selling it in a garage sale.
EDIT again...ILDA...pfffffttt
EDIT AGAIN...(cause i just thought of something funny) STANDARDS??? -Hell even I have dated fat chicks!
In France, we can do unsafe laser shows in club....but it's not allowed having sex in those club :( it's too bad...
just kidding of course !
ANY true professional would determine that your "laser display" was irresponsible.
Well many who know the technical facts do not agree with your factless theory/guess work, speculation, lack of knowledge or real firm evidence of what is unsafe. You base all your masterful knowledge on video content when the reality is you do not know.
Was there any accident in my urm, 2,000 + events in the past 6 years, NO. were those events safe or unsafe? I guess any Professional or a person with a brain would have to agree that they were safe. Was it safe or was it not.
Did we use Q-switched lasers at laser shows, no way, that is too risky and anyone that did is very stupid, ahh Pat you did.
Who is the unsafe one, I think it's you Pat but you were just very lucky you didnt blind somebody. Ahh, maybe its your fault that the rules are so tight in the US being the poineer of using Q-switched second hand ex medical lasers for shows. I have some but never use them due to safety issues, never will but will scrap them when I get time so they cant be used.
Q-switch 40watt vs open can diodes.
Need I say more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserman532
OHHHHH thats right you use "super sekret technoligy" that make your "effects" safe...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by andyf97
I base my masterful knowledge that a LOC 660 laser can and will produce 250mw. I know that a 250mw laser in an eye can cause eye damage. I have concluded that your video shows the dancers shooting lasers directly into the front row of the audience. Given the above indisputable facts..."your" show was irresponsible IMHO, which is the current standard as you are challenging my knowledge on the subject. Until you PROVE how you achieve eyesafe effects, your integrity will be called into question...at least by me.
Your past shows...One can only determine the safety of each show on a case by case basis. Even a dead clock is right twice a day. Play the lottery long enough and you will win. Just because there were no reported injuries dosnt mean they were "safe".
Even an eleventy, billion watt mega hyper switched laser used properly can be made (used) to be safe for the general public and operators. But a 20 milliwatt pointer used irresponsibly can pose a eye hazard, i dont know how clearer to say it.
Face it you got busted...now go on with your life...may your stream of "good luck" continue!
hahaha,
Hey know it all, who says they are set at 250mW, did your expertize measure that from a video. That's amazing if you can do that, maybe you'll be the first able to do that on the planet too.
Also, you have no clue what we use, we do have a new technology being developed and it will be patented, then you can see and then you will be laughed at by everyone as the know it all that does'nt know it all.
You can put your comments on all my videos it's free for all.
Pat, I am really not interested in anything you type or your know it all attitude, putting the link about the burning club is the only reason for my replies and you will get more from me as long as that link is there. Why because it is sick and should not be on this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserman532
lol..
If I had to guess I'd say that both you and Pat are phenomenally experienced. Pat's avatar, for example, is from National Geographic from when he was featured by them in a story about lasers from back in the mid-80s. I also believe I heard that he worked as an engineer for Spectra-physics for some years.. and has done very large scale shows here in the states. It's almost like you are each others' counterparts on each side of the globe.. kinda funny in a way that two extremely experienced individuals are telling each other that they each have no clue.. the only thing that makes me lean towards Pat's viewpoint than yours Andy is that what I'm hearing from him is straightforward comments about a show that does not appear to be safe. To me it's just common sense, and it's commendable to stand behind safety no matter what.
We are talking about facts, the facts are not known and won't be given due to what we are using and how / under development. Comments of something being unsafe based on a video are just incorrect and I agree it is ok to speculate them to 'look unsafe" but to declare it as unsafe based on video footage is simply stupid. Anyway I am not bothered, I put the videos for general viewing, if somebody says it is unsafe its an opinion just like if they say the effects are crap.
in the end Safety is being descussed based on what is on a video, not facts.
Thank you for your input on this topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElektroFreak
andy ma boy...now you are going to back pedal and say they were not 200mw:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by andyf97
1- are you saying they were not 250mw? if so...how much power were they?
2- Does X= eyes afe for direct exposure?
3-Why would you us LOC 660- when you could have used 5mw 640 (busted)
4-You have top sekreit super duper cool patented surprise technology?
5-I have a unicorn that shoots glitter out of his butt...BIG FUCKING DEAL!!!!
6-Laugh at me??? FOR WHAT??? really, do I seem like the person that WILL CARE???
If i see ignorance in your videos in the future, i will assure you that I will point it out.
FACTS-
You posted video showing LOC 660 (multiple) beaming crowd
Shad asked you if it was safe
You Lied, and dodged direct questions on how you achieved eye safe operation
Pat (and others) bust your ass
Maybe you will think about that video when you do pyro because you DO NOT consider your audiences safety when you do lasers (speaking of this event only) (so far...).
Frankly...I really dont give a shit how many blind Romanians white stick their way around the earth. But I have ZERO tolerance for people who lie. I was kind in the beginning and you have trolled me to this point. Think of me as a super hero...where I find injustice i will fight it.
case closed
HAHAHA, Back pedal, no, I never stated the power only you did.
Did you see any post of mine specifying the power?
Said they are 660nm diodes used on some dancers.
Where are your facts hero?
Anyway, you are very upset because you are wrong and know it, i think you hate it and start to accuse me of being a liar because you know you are wrong and too ashamed to admit that there is a technology that you dont know about.
Your arguments are empty without facts and you have none like usual, your the only one on the planet who knows about lasers? the facts are your not. You cannot answer how we do it so you call me a liar and unsafe and magically from a video guess the power of lasers every time we post a video.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserman532
WOW-
:( Sorry. I didnt mean for my comments to drag this thread to this point.
For the record- I am not qualified nor do i consider myself an expert to look at a youtube vidoe and judge its safety or not. Whether its Andy's video, Pats videos, my videos or ANYONES video. I *PERSONALLY* think (and it is just my opinion) that to judge the safety of a laser display simply by a video clip and/or picture may injustly cause erroneous speculation. Without knowing any other variables of the displays in question, i would have a hard time calling a companies safety into question.
This video, as i said *does* look like it has the *possibility* of being considered dangerous. HOWEVER- we dont know other variables of this display. honestly, do we?? this could have been reheased 10,000 times and every other person in the venue very well could have been placed on "marks" to avoid the beams. The beams, whether 200mW, 250mW or 50mW may be 10mm wide? i dont know. nor do i think any of us know for sure.
I dont know Andy, never met him, probably never will. I am not "defending" him i am simply defending the actions of posting a video. that was my MAIN point earlier. Every time a video or picture gets posted on this forum lately, it seems to immediately get labled as unsafe, eye melting, carelss and calls the integrity of the operator into question. the second any of us sees a laser beam in a video or picture that is below 3 meters above an audience we scream UNSAFE CROWD SCANNING!! EYES MELTING!!
I just tihnk, unless we see concrete proof or undeniable carelessness can't we just enjoy a video or picture?
Nobody is saying that we dont respect safety. i am 100% safety conscious as i am sure you ALL are, but we just seem to jump to some very serious conclusions very quickly on this forum. we are all laserists. this profession means alot to all of us. But i think we need to pick our battles. Prodjallen was a battle we ALL needed to fight!!! this video (IMHO) doesnt seem to be that worthy of a battle we need to fight.
Pat- i look up to you, everyone here looks up to you. seriously. I value your professionalism and your expertise. and if you say something is dangerous, honestly, it probably is. I just would like to see *maybe* a less "attacking" manner of questioning it? i dont know. :o
I am PETRIFIED to show any videos or pictures here anymore. hell, i set my shows up to EXACT safety regulations and dont even attempt to "bend" and rules or regs. but just my luck, someone will see a stray beam hit off of a light mantle in a celing somewhere and go below 10'
i dont want to sound like the "cant we all just get along" type of guy, but we are all supposed to be colleagues and laserists here. i would REALLY like to just keep the EDUCATIONAL aspect of this forum top priority. not the "Who can we bust for unsafe shows" roll a top priority (which it seems to be lately).
-Marc
Marc, Your comments did not do it,
You are right tho about the stupidness of negative comments on videos but you should add some on youtube and share them. I love to see what others are doing too
I am not bothered who says what about my videos, I am only pissed at the use of a video link of a burning club where people died on this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gottaluvlasers
andy fill in the blanks.
The laser show video in question is eye safe because (here is the blank you will fill in)
(Super sekret technology that makes andy the only one on the planet that allows CW lasers to beam into the crowd, that will make laserman532 the laughing stock of the industry is not acceptable or I will refer back to the unicorn glitter theory) (those lasers were CW, power still to be determined) I have videotaped CW and Pulsed lasers from 1 hertz to fempto seconds i know what CW looks like.
If the above statement can not be filled in then use the EXCUSE FORM below :rolleyes:
1-
2-
3-
4-
to infinity...
:rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gottaluvlasers
I certainly see your point Marc, but a solid focus on safety doesn't go against the educational value of this forum, in fact discussions like these (perhaps conducted with a bit more tact all around) add to it. Safety, IMO, should be one of the most important topics here if not THE most important, and I believe that by "calling out" media that contains potentially unsafe practices we are actually helping the community as a whole. It's not hard for someone to explain why a show is safe without sharing their IP in the vast majority of cases. You can never pay too much attention to safety, and I think it hurts the forum and potentially the industry as a whole if we ignore possible safety violations rather than ask for more information concerning safety.
here is the cruxt of the problem...some wacky teen over at LPF will see this video and build something that does not include "the top sekret that only andy knows on the planet technology", (we will call the "unicorn / glitter ass theory" from here out until disclosed making me the laughing stock of the industry) and blind his little sister or some of his friends, make the press and the proverbial excrement will interface with the air handling system and mess it all up for ALL OF YOU.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElektroFreak
Post one, in this thread, without disclaimer = irresponsible
HAHAHA,
Like you care.
If you cared so much you would have made public tons of info on how to convert laserscopes correctly/safely but you did'nt and that guy in his garage is likely doing it wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserman532
And that is different from someone seeing a well calculated but visually impressive show by Hugo, and then scanning his little sister at 3ft in the front room how exactly?
If everyone has to post a disclaimer along with every video/pic then this forum is really on its way to the dogs...
I'm not sure about 'get along'
'Get a grip' more like...
haha this is childs play at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by andyf97
Sooooo, by avoiding my direct question...A G A I N...we can assume that you have perfected the "unicorn glitter ass technology"
Lots of guys show how to modify LOC 660 lasers...your video shows how to use them improperly...its full circle...PERFECT.
Since you started to comment was childs play like usual when you cant get your way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserman532
it might not have been so controversial if andy would have said...Quote:
Originally Posted by norty303
"Here is a show where we used our new and patented "unicorn glitter ass technology" to perform audience scanning with high powered diode lasers which prevents any possibility of causing eye injury." Enjoy the video.:rolleyes:
Not a disclaimer necessarily...but more of information about how he performs this eye safe effect :D