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Remember SpiroGraph? SpiroDAC is a low budget real-time abstract generator that supports both the EasyLase and modified soundcards thanks to drlava's driver. Please read the DAC_Help.txt file for info on switching the app between EasyLase and soundcard output modes.
Dean
SWEET! I'll have to try this out! *retardoQuote:
Originally Posted by dchammonds
Ok Dean, Thats really cool.
Is there any way to save it and use it in a show?
Chris
Not yet, but it shouldn't be hard to add ILDA output.Quote:
Is there any way to save it and use it in a show?
This rev includes an ILDA file output option. The files are saved using sequential numbering in the local directory of the app.
http://laserboy.org/lwave/
Thanks Dean,
I'll give it a try.
Chris
is there any footage of this in action?
Unfotunately, I don't have a working projector yet, but I briefly tried it on my friends rig. You know how us software guys are- we just write stuff without bothering to test it.*retardoQuote:
Originally Posted by swamidog
guilty!
;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dchammonds
Here are some pics of a spiro I made last night.
The pictures don't really do it justice. The colors are really vibrant. This program is a lot of fun. You can get lost staring at the images you just created.
Lazerjock
Attachment 20014Attachment 20013Attachment 20017Attachment 20015Attachment 20016
If you release sources I would like to port it to MacOS.
I'm in the middle of some code changes now, but I intend to post code soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by heroic
I use Visual Basic 6:(, so it might not be much help for MAC. Do you use a soundcard or EasyLase?
Dean
Oh, in that case not, then. I assumed you were using something halfway portable... can't even use vb6 on modern microsoft toolchains. :-/Quote:
Originally Posted by dchammonds
Yeah, I've got to find just the right 'for dummies' book on C something...:rolleyes: Maybe thisQuote:
Originally Posted by heroic
is a good excuse to make a trip to the bookstore.
I highly recommend Deitel & Deitel's "C++ How To Program" (ISBN-13: 978-0136117261) as the defacto introduction text for anyone seriously interested in learning C/C++. It thoroughly covers the language fundamentals, usage, the STL, and is overall exceedingly well written. In my experience there is no shortage of absolutely terrible introductory textbooks out there. There's a reason this particular text is used by most major universities for the C/C++ course literature, and it will remain a great reference even after you've gotten some years of code under your belt. I'd recommend Amazon; get a used copy from an edition or two back - far cheaper than the current edition but without any real difference in the core material covered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchammonds
If it is just C you are interested in (and, if you're coming from a BASIC background, C is less of a bump than C++, which is an overcomplicated pile of shit) then I'd recommend A Book On C by Ira Pohl and the other guy whose name I forget.
C is a beautiful, simple, elegant language, and it lies at the heart of C++, so time spent learning C is not wasted when you go on to learn C++, which is a sprawling monstrosity of a language.
C/C++ itself is not too difficult as long as you have a programming background. Learning all of the widgets and methods needed to create a good GUI with it is a different story. C/C++ does not provide what you need to create a GUI. No concept of GUI exists in those languages. You will have to rely on a toolkit of some kind. They are usually more difficult to learn/use than the language itself.
My point, you can learn C/C++ but still won't have all you need to create a C/C++ version of SpiroDAC. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Well, it doesn't have to be a *huge* iceberg. There are a lot of nice multiplatform gui toolkits. One of the most popular is Qt, which can compile and run on Linux, MacOS, Windows, embedded Linux (with its internal framebuffer driver), Windows CE, SymbianOS and MeeGo (Intel/Nokia Linux phone platform), with experimental versions for iPhone, Palm Pre and a couple other OSes.
Which is a lot of bang for relatively little effort :-)
Yep, they don't make it easy- that's why I chose VB6 long ago in the first place. Simple GUI together with very fast number crunching and memory access (provided that you stick to simple data structures and a few cardinal rules) and WinAPI support made VB6 a good choice back then.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnYayas
OK, I just downloaded the express edition of Visual Studio 2010 (OMG). I'm a bit wary of .net, only because Wild Bill & Co. could redefine the whole mess in a way that is not backwardly compatible at the drop of a hat in the next rev. I think I'll clone my hard drive before installation, in case my machine gets assimilated by the Borg; I can click my heels and be back in Kansas like it was all just a bad dream.
Heroic, you mentioned QT; how does it compare to FLTK?
Dean
I've never used FLTK, but it looks much more limited in scope than Qt. Qt is a full application framework in much the same way as the Visual Studio crap is. FLTK is mostly just a UI toolkit with a few OS access bits.Quote:
Originally Posted by dchammonds
Dean, I suggest to not even think about the GUI at this stage. Create a nice little engine that exposes properties for setting oscillator values and has a way to retrieve points based on time. You can create a higher level class that retrieves data in real time and buffers it. Maybe have some sort of callback that can be used to pump the data into a video window, ILDA file, DAC, etc. You can write all of the important part of your application without even thinking about a GUI. Then, a person can grab your code and put their own GUI on top of it without too much trouble.
Are you saying that I should go back to a DOS prompt for the short term (how I hope not; if James is reading this he will burn up the phone line to tell me I TOLD YOU SO!)?>:)Quote:
I suggest to not even think about the GUI at this stage.
No, I didn't mean that at all. I meant that the core of your application is a GUI-less coordinate generator. You can start by just creating that in C++ as a black box. Then you can easily add a GUI to it after you are more familiar with C++. Or you could give the black box to heroic and tell her to make her own Mac GUI with whatever she wants. You can also generically expose the output so anyone can pipe it to a DirectX window, an ILDA file, a TCP/IP port to some client at your friends house where he watches your laser images on his projector while you twiddle the knobs. The possibilities are endless. But, if you embed everything together in some monolithic GUI app you are limited by what can be done with it. You can create SpiroDAC with a few sliders, or you can create Super Awesome Spiro Engine that becomes your legacy as it becomes the foundation of many different variations of abstract generators. OK, maybe I am getting carried away there but you get the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by dchammonds
...what he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnYayas
If you write it in nice clean C, I can put it on a microcontroller with DMX, USB and MIDI interfaces and hey presto that's a product you can sell :-)
-J.
When it comes to making decent abstracts, it comes down to 3 things:
0.1% Inspiration
49.9% Trial and error
50% Dumb luck, to include typos that wind up looking cool by pure accident. The only trick is to harness those accidents in a useful way.
The goal for me is to master a common language to express the above.
Dean
I think I'll both agree and disagree on this at the same time (sure, that is possible, right?) You are definitely on to something here, but I think that perhaps like anything else, from person to person, or even with more experience, training, and the right tools, these numbers work out to be different percentages.Quote:
Originally Posted by dchammonds
I've found myself to be quite inspired to patch abstracts over the years. I have found it to be a great art and challenge. In fact, at this point it is far more inspiration that drives my abstract patching than anything else. I find myself wanting to recreate classic images that I've seen in old shows, or create new things that I wouldn't have thought could be patched. The songs that I work on that I really want to do end up being the ones that I blow through very quickly, rather than drudge through them wanting it to just be over.
The tools certainly play a big part in setting the boundaries for what is possible. I really lucked out in getting wind of DigiSynth when I did, as it was exactly what I was looking for to make the abstracts I needed. I was honestly shocked that anyone would put that much effort in to a tool for an industry that had all but abandoned the real art of abstract imagery. It is great to see that others have that interest too!
My intention here certainly isn't to turn this into a DS infomercial. I can't speak to the function or usability of the OP's software, but I would like to say a few things about abstracts.
There is a process to create specific classes of abstracts, a method that is easily repeatable to get you to a general class or to a specific image. The use of oscillators, amplifiers, rotators, multipliers, sequencers and other image synthesizer components is a skill that can be learned and understood just like following any other signal path. This is why I think patching of abstracts is something that can be understood by a large number of people in the industry, especially at the hobbiest level, where one tends to have to wire up many of the tools of the trade themselves, so the basic patch comprehension skills are inherent.
There are patch theories that are road maps to creating great images and allowing for great performances. Some of these are quite simple, like the idea of using common frequencies on base oscillators so that one can find the harmonic for a colormod easily when the entire show is performed. Understanding the relations of harmonics and how one performs an image to evoke an emotional response in the audience is something that has gotten a bit lost out there. There is psychology and science involved, and playing to the way we react to our perceptions is a large part of creating a show for not just the eyes, but ultimately the mind.
I guess trial and error is the thing you do when you don't have that roadmap to follow. Although between that and the dumb luck, I will say that with abstract patching it is very possible and not uncommon to try things out of curiosity or to accidentally connect something and come up with an amazing image. With point-based imagery it really takes an effort to make an image that looks cool and really works. This is something that I have struggled with over the years. I'm not an animator or illustrator. I am much better with geometry and abstract imagery, and I can weave in elements from animators.
I was fortunate enough to have my skills forged in the fires of production at AVI, where abstracts were a huge part of the process, but certainly not the only flavor of image at our disposal. It was a little scary at first looking at the massive patchbay with little cryptic names for all the RCA jacks, but I am very glad that I had that opportunity. It is still one of the coolest skill sets to be productive with.
Abstracts, or even lasershows as a whole are all about the performance, the artful techniques, and development. Not just putting an image up there to fill 23.6 seconds, but to lead the audience through an experience, be their tour guide for the show and help them to first understand what a lasershow is. Then ease them into the understanding of how it works before you eventually blow their minds by breaking through the barriers that they thought they understood.
Laser abstracts really are a beautiful art form. As an industry we have barely scratched the surface of what is possible.
-chuck
any more development on this going on???
it would be really neat if you could make this work with a control surface like the novation remote zero SL...
and if you could save "presets" that you could recall quickly and start tweaking from there...
Thanks for your interest in my app!Quote:
Originally Posted by flecom
I'm sitting on a newer version that allows for switching between EZL and sound DAC modes from within the app, but I want to add a couple more XYZ op modes before releasing.
I code in VB6 and am attempting to learn C# and VB.net lately, so that has taken up some of my time, but it could open doors to better apps down the road.
Dean
SpiroDAC now has support for the RIYA (thanks to much help from drlava!), as well
as EZLase and modified soundcards. You now can switch from any of these within the app.
Also added are some additional XYZ Op Modes (and probably a few bugs)...*retardo
http://laserboy.org/lwave/
Dean
Thanks Dean I'm going to give it a try tonight.
I've resurrected a function generator app that I wrote long ago to include support for the Helios dac, since the interface is so similar to the EzLase/EzAud/RIYA dacs.
Thanks to Grix for quick assistance and testing from keeperx!
This version includes an SD mode for ILDA file output with simplified color for compatibility with SD card projectors, and is full 3D in both modes. X and Y axis
rotational frequency control is also added.
If TV stations can get away with airing reruns of basketball and golf without getting fined and shut down by the FCC, then I guess it's OK for me to rerun some old software.
Seriously, golf reruns- how brain dead is that? *retardo
I'm still developing my software, although I haven't posted any updates here in quite a while. I hope to post some updates soon. Adding features is easy, but documenting and packaging it is another matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHermit
Speaking of James, he's been playing around with some high power pre-fab RGB modules together with modest, but decent performing scanners and a lot of related things as well. He asked me to design a high performance analog diode driver and it works great. I was just over there a few days ago to see it in action. It's great to have access to decent equipment and I hope to have something nice to take home with me down the road.
Still doing the modified soundcard thing, but I have fantasies of dealing with a dumb audio ADAC in a plain jane C (not ++) DLL someday... Bucket list stuff.
Dean
Audio drivers have overhead and baggage associated with them. Once you get things going, they come up with an OS update and then things might not work right and then you might not be able to get the support you need in a timely matter, if at all. That's the only reason I'm contemplating a dumbed down approach. Oh, and did I mention that your channel order can get screwed up by a given wave player or pipeline, not to mention unintended sample rate up conversions/down conversions/re conversions... UUUGHHH!
That explains a lot. Glad you're sticking with it!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHermit
I wish the forum would quit dropping out... I think the server is being bombarded with bots.:mad:
Don't have much in the way of working laser gear, but that may change with all the modules that James is working with lately. Currently, I have a decent oscope and a modified soundcard. I've designed a couple of laser circuits that others have built. I enjoy coding color abstracts and a little audio DSP.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHermit
I'll PM a link to my color abstract gallery for starters.
Dean
How about that...Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHermit