My new >3W RGB projector

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11-26-2010, 00:09
Steve Milani

5 Attachment(s)

My new >3W RGB projector
Hi all guys!

Finally I got the last module missing, so my last creature has born...*DZ

Chars of new projector are:
- Red: 900mW/642nm from Kvant (Martin *Pelosh*)
- Blue: 1W/445nm (1.1W peak) from Kvant (Martin *Pelosh*.... once more!)
- Green: 1.3W/532nm (1.31W peak) from Laserwave (Marc *Gottaluvlasers*)
- Optics and mounts: Laserwave (Rob *Stanwax*)
- Galvos: DT-40 (Marc *Gottaluvlasers*)
I still have to measure the peak output power of Kvant red unit (wishing that my little power meter can be able to do....'cause its end range is 1050mW only), but I am absolutely sure its power is 900mW guaranted (I think at least around 930-950mW):o
Total output power should be around 2.5-2.6W (I calculate, in the worst case, 20% losses). White balance is good, maybe little greenish... anyway the white appears to be "snow-white" and It is very very bright.
Case is alu 3mm (40x30x25cm) and alu baseplate is 6mm thickness. Weight should be around 12-13kg.

Here I post some pics of new baby.
I tried to take pictures when at work, but quality was a huge crap... (my camera is a real shit....:mad:). Sorry guys... I hope to find soon the right camera for to shoot good pictures...
Anyway...
Here I want to say my biggest "Thank You!" to *Pelosh*, *Gottaluvlasers* and *Stanwax* for their precious advices and services. They supported me wonderful way. Great guys they are!
Thanks guys!

Enjoy you and greetings from Italy (It's raining cats and dogs here!)
Steve*retardo
11-26-2010, 01:03
dnar

Looks tidy.

Your optics plate looks like 5mm, are you sure that is thick enough to avoid movement and flex? How does the colour balance look? Needs more red from where I am sitting.

Good job.

:rainbow:
11-26-2010, 01:23
buffo

That's a nice looking projector, Steve. Quite compact! How about some shots of it scanning?

Adam
11-26-2010, 01:30
White-Light

Hi Steve,

Very nice job there.

Regarding the colour balance, you're in the green side of the spectrum slightly because you don't have enough red in my opinion.

This is from Chroma so awaits the flaming but....

You can't dial the green back without shifting into the blue spectrum.

Dialing the blue back just shifts you towards the yellow end of the spectrum.

The only way to pull away from the green side, is to increase the amount of red (or decrease both green and blue together in the right amounts to keep them in balance respective to each other). However, in my paper experiments, the amount of drop required on blue and green was so large as to substancially reduce the overall power.

So I'm guessing the best way is either to live with the slightly green end of the spectrum or plan for more red!

I too add to Adams call for scanning pics, please!
11-26-2010, 02:32
Steve Milani

I apologize... baseplate is 5mm thickness. sorry... I will test its firmness as soon as possible.

I agree with all of you about white balance.
It shuld be too green unbalanced.
But I sincerely have to tell that, even if Chroma also says on the contrary, white appears very good, almost white-snow.

Tonite I will try to take some pics by my old camera (It has a lot of pixels burned as I used it for lasers.....) I hope to obtain enough good to see pictures to be posted here.:o

Greets
11-26-2010, 04:05
RGbee

Good god Steve,
How many projectors is that you have now :D
11-26-2010, 04:17
norty303

I think you could probabnly lose the heatsink on the top of the kvant (I think it is) unless the any of the diode holders are actually mounted directly to the lid. The amount of thermal transmission up the sides of the lid is going to be minimal compared to that which is dispersed through the base (imo)
11-26-2010, 04:42
Steve Milani

@ RGbee....
Ha Ha...
This is my projector number 5.... *retardo(n°3 RGB; n°1 RGY; n°1 green).... and I still have a HeNe 632.8nm gas laser tube (82mW) fully working.

Gosh! I could play a complete lasershow Pink Floyd style!!!
(or I could sell one/two of them...);)

@Norty303...
I put heatsink on the top of Kvant 1W blue just only for... safety matter.
I tested module it without it for half an hour in CW way: module temperatute (on the top of enclosure) was about 40°C (approximate hand measure...). I asked to Martin for advices and he answered me: "with heatsink would be better"...:). That's what heatsink is for.

Greets!
11-26-2010, 05:15
White-Light

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Milani

Hi all guys!

Finally I got the last module missing, so my last creature has born...*DZ

White balance is good, maybe little greenish... anyway the white appears to be "snow-white" and It is very very bright.
*retardo

I was commenting on your observation above.

Chroma still shows it as white just on the green side as you observed.

This is the actual plot. It looks pretty balanced with the balance still in white albeit on the green side, pretty accurate I'd say:

You can see the white area as a triangle in the window.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/13/steveak.jpg
11-26-2010, 05:43
dnar

We need a "this thread is useless without beam shots" smilie!
11-26-2010, 06:09
danielbriggs

Quote:

Originally Posted by White-Light

Regarding the colour balance, you're in the green side of the spectrum slightly because you don't have enough red in my opinion.

:th_woot:

Quote:

Originally Posted by White-Light

This is from Chroma so awaits the flaming but....

Apologies for the delay, heavy snow on the eastern seaboard slowed the transmission...

Quote:

Originally Posted by White-Light

This is the actual plot. *snip* pretty accurate I'd say

Well; you know what they say... *retardo

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1017/chromao.jpg
11-26-2010, 06:20
p1t8ull

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Milani

But I sincerely have to tell that, even if Chroma also says on the contrary, white appears very good, almost white-snow.

Which is why most people regard RGB power levels that look good from experience and observations of real life laser displays, and don't keep quoting Chroma figures.

Anyway, nice projector Steve :)
11-26-2010, 06:49
Jem

Quote:

Originally Posted by White-Light

Regarding the colour balance, you're in the green side of the spectrum slightly because you don't have enough red in my opinion.

<in best Yoda voice>... "The power of Chroma is strong, turn to the red side you will"

HeHe, that's set me off again, the chucklemuscles haven't been exercised so much for ages.

Very nice projector Steve, well done.

Jem
11-26-2010, 07:22
Steve Milani

12 Attachment(s)

Boys.... be quiet....

I have pics....
Low quality but enough.

1) I measured all single powers (except green 'cause it's out of range for my LaserbeeI, so I take the labeled value of 1.3 measured by Marc *Gottaluvlasers*.... (b.t.w. Hi man, how are you?).
- Red: labeled 900mW; peak 917mW; stable at 915mW.
- Blue: labeled 1W; peak 1,026mW; stable at 1,023mW.
- Green: out of range of powermeter (poor boy...) labeled 1W; peak 1,310mW, stable at 1.3W measured and certified by Marc *Gottaluvlasers*.
Total continuous power=3,238mW losses excluded (I think 20% losses), so should be around 2.6W effective.:)
2) baseboard 5mm is a little shit:mad:. It is too much "sensible" at movements and alignment go to hell easily ...:mad::mad::mad:. I must to cut another board 10mm thickness. I will do it soon...
3) After 30 minutes warm up, all modules at full power, I done a visual check of white balance. Honestly it is lightly greenish/cyanish unbalenced. I have to be sincere. Anyway it is great for beamshow.
4) About "Chroma" now.... Reading at point 3) software have the right. Absolutely. I should turn down green and little blue. I apologise.

And now...PICS!
Notice: some pics have been shot in the dark, others when a small light was on into my studio. Smoke (cough!.. cough!..) comes from my "Ancient Toscano" cigar (great cigar!)

Any comment welcome.

Enjoy!
All the best
Steve
11-26-2010, 09:34
White-Light

Nice pics Steve
11-26-2010, 09:51
norty303

Please just be careful of your eyes with those specular reflections.
I'm becoming more and more conscious of these things as my lasers get more powerful, and your environment looks small and bright! ;)
11-27-2010, 01:38
Steve Milani

Quote:

Originally Posted by norty303

Please just be careful of your eyes with those specular reflections.
I'm becoming more and more conscious of these things as my lasers get more powerful, and your environment looks small and bright! ;)

Yeah... I well know what a >3W laser ray can do when shoot into an eye..... I know what it means for: to loose your eye forever.:(

Just for record.... While I was testing color balance I have set, for few second (5 - 6 )only, all modules at full power. Output ray bumped over the wood frame of the window into my studio (window was opened, as I can shoot high to the sky).... Result: smoke, stink and a 3mm diameter spot of charred wood on the surface of frame.....

Anyway.... Thanks Norty. You well done to refresh all of us about laser safety. :)
Safety always first.

Greets!
*DZ
11-27-2010, 01:45
dave

Looks good!

I would be very concerned running these lasers for long periods with no or Little heat sinking like you have.. Your lasers are just going to loose alignment without proper heatsinking...

Also, from what I can see, those scanners are Scanpro40's, rather than DT40's :)
11-27-2010, 06:24
Steve Milani

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave

...Also, from what I can see, those scanners are Scanpro40's, rather than DT40's :)

OMG!
Dave... You have 100% RIGHT!!!!

Holy cow! I was always conviced they were DT-40.... Instead they are Scanpro40...
I just checked pics and manual into your web shop... They are... They are!

What a sort of big jackass I am!...
What a huge cock up I've written!

I apologize. Sorry guys....:shame:

Dave... Do you think that heatsink have to be mandatory for all modules, or I could run them for medium-short time (15-20 minutes.... just the time to play some lasershow) without risk?...
Example: 15-20 minutes on work, 10-15 minutes stopped to cool them?:confused:

New Years Eve is next to come and I should have to use my projectors for a dancing party all night long.

Thanks alot for your any advice.... and... Congrats! You have "hawk's eye"!!!!
*DZ
11-28-2010, 10:53
Xytrell

Quote:

Originally Posted by White-Light

You can't dial the green back without shifting into the blue spectrum.

That should be fine. A higher CCT white is still white. 2700K looks white by itself, but so does 6500k.
11-28-2010, 11:24
White-Light

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xytrell

That should be fine. A higher CCT white is still white. 2700K looks white by itself, but so does 6500k.

I know.

I think Chroma is more accurate that people give it credit for. The problem is most people (myself included until recently) focus on the very white star shaped area in the centre thats also very small in size and interpret that as the point of white balance.

In actual fact, when you take a stand back and compare actual real world results with chroma and look at the graph carefully, what you can see is that in actual fact, there is a large white triangle at the centre of the graph (highlighted very roughly in black below), that actually represents the white area. If I put the one up without my black triangle highlight, you can see the feint white triangle area for yourself:

http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/3650/steve2.jpg http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8378/steveu.jpg

Only when you realise that do you realise that you can achieve white anywhere within that large triangle which is why many previous plots were misintrepreted as proving chroma to be wrong.

Whats more I actually think you can use this to your advantage to try to obtain the type of white balance you want.

eg Steve's plot, was commented by him to be a little greenish and can be seen to be on the edge of green but its still within the white triangle area (slightly out on my rough black triangle drawing above but you can clearly see its in the white area when you look at the unannotated version).

To my mind this gives chroma a use in obtaining a white ablance. eg, want a warm reddy white, then plot for the red side of the triangle. Want a cool white, plot for the green side like Steve did or for the blue area for a more bluey white.

I'm pretty sure that with such a wide area within the white triangle pretty much every colour temperature of white is covered.

Its just a pity so many people wrote chroma off so quickly before anyone actually realised that the white balance extended far beyond the star area in the centre, and I'm as guilty as anyone at that. Its just that with further analysis against real world feedback from members on here, I've now realised that the quite large faint white triangle appears to actually be the white balance area not the small starred centre area and that the large area is large because it encompasses many different areas of colour temperature within white.

Now awaits the inevitable flaming. :rolleyes:
11-30-2010, 14:22
instinct

I never noticed that white triangle and couldn't see it.. and then I tilted my laptop screen down.. WOW, it was so obvious.
11-30-2010, 15:20
danielbriggs

Quote:

Originally Posted by White-Light

In actual fact, when you take a stand back and compare actual real world results with chroma and look at the graph carefully, what you can see is that in actual fact, there is a large white triangle at the centre of the graph.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7753/chromaglasses.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by White-Light

I think Chroma is more accurate that people give it credit for.

Accurate? Like real-world-mirror-lens-dichro-losses-hell-even-temperature-as-well-as-un-quantifiable-losses accurate?
Nope.

Precise?
Yep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by White-Light

To my mind this gives chroma a use in obtaining a white ablance. eg, want a warm reddy white, then plot for the red side of the triangle. Want a cool white, plot for the green side like Steve did or for the blue area for a more bluey white.

+

Quote:

Originally Posted by White-Light

I'm pretty sure that with such a wide area within the white triangle pretty much every colour temperature of white is covered.

You mean like this?

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/708/chroma.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by White-Light

Its just a pity so many people wrote chroma off so quickly before anyone actually realised that the white balance extended far beyond the star area in the centre

No. Hold on a second...
You appear to have somewhat muddled this "Chroma Banter"
It's not the program, governing equations or proved theory I've been shaking a stick at here... That's all well and good. :)
It's the USE of such a precision tool with no underpinning real world guidance to substantiate and interpret such claims.

The Chromatic Conjecture if you will...

There are plenty of other examples, not just Chroma where tools can very easily generate ill, come-borderline nonsensical data if used without sensible direction.
Take Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) as an example. Truly a fantastic and powerful tool. Genuinely.

However how do you ensure the data it spits out is accurate?
Validation!

And how is that achieved?
By using a wind tunnel to confirm the model is correct!

Now relate that example back to RGB lasers... :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by White-Light

Now awaits the inevitable flaming. :rolleyes:

Bah! You're no fun... O_o