Announcement: New laser show software available: Procedural dynamic frames, Much More

Happy Memorial Day Weekend, everyone! One of the things that has been keeping me busy lately, besides graduation, is a new exciting pro-level laser show software I have been working on, called LaserShow Xpress (LSX) which is officially publicly available, starting today. This is a full-featured show software suite with a frame editor, multi-projector timeline, MIDI (novation) style control capability, a full color and animation control suite, a live interface, and more.

The software is built around a simple principle: build features (such as true color ILDA export, powerful interface, full abstract generation, and universal DAC compatibility) that the user community wants, and they will come!

http://innolasers.com/laser/LSX/sphere.jpg

The background:
As a hobbyist, years ago I was offered a deal on a version of Laser Design Studio (LDS) in trade for a custom laser module. Seeing its price and capability, it was a no-brainer and I was happy to experience my first 'pro' level show software at a fraction of the retail cost. Over the years since then, despite its power, the many oddities and limitations it had began to grate on me, and the author had seemed to loose interest. Eventually, the opportunity to create these improvements myself presented itself, and after a lot of development and hard work improving what was already pretty powerful software, here stands LSX today.

http://innolasers.com/laser/LSX/web.jpg

New features:
There have been over 125 new features and fixes added to LDS Pro, and the list keeps growing. One of the exciting new features (to me) is the ability to control, manipulate, and define frames in real-time using arbitrary mathematical expressions and scripts. The complete real-time generation and control offered here with regards to frames, color, and movement - and with input sources such as music, MIDI control surfaces like the Novation Remote Zero SL, and the mouse - I have not seen in any other laser show software, except Digisynth. Don't worry, if you aren't comfortable with math, there are many presets and more are being created all the time.
Usability improvements were a primary concern, and with the help of C Favreau and others (thank you!), LSX is getting easier to use all the time. Improvements such as drag-and-drop DAC selection, a better organized setup menu, non-modal context-sensitive editing dialogs, full event group cut, copy, paste across timelines and shows, help pop-ups local help buttons, and the ability to 'Undo' are some of the things that make the use of this software more of a pleasure than a pain.

http://innolasers.com/laser/LSX/abs1.jpg

Depth:
The features of this software are broad and deep. While the pro version comes with over 100 shows, for those that are interested in creation, give yourself some time to learn all of the features and capabilities of the software. Your investment will be rewarded with the ability to make amazing shows. Not every aspect, such as dynamically evaluated expressions, need to be mastered right away, or even at all. The animator and frame drawing tool bring you simple animation capability just a few clicks away. The feature list is so long, I won't bother to list it here, let's just say that users of other pro software here on the forum were very impressed, and found several things LSX could do that theirs could not.

http://innolasers.com/laser/LSX/pong.jpg

Versions:
My goal with versioning - Lite through Pro - was to set feature levels such that any user would have the same art creation capability (no color limts, abstract limits, track limits, etc) but the higher levels would get you more 'pro' required features such as more projectors and advanced features such as target worlds and show protection/encryption. With this goal, even inspired hobbyists will have the chance to create the same caliber artwork as the pros. The full Leveling list is available on the purchase page.

http://innolasers.com/laser/LSX/z-ripple.jpg

Animations:
If you have ever looked at a static frame and wished you could move it and twist it while spinning it and stretching it, and recolor it all live to an amount determined by a slider(s) in your hardware MIDI controller, LSX is the software for you. If you've ever wished for the ability to synchronize your animations to a visualization of the music which shows volume AND pitch, LSX is the software for you, too. If you've created a cool animation effect and wanted to save it to a preset for later use on other frames, LSX has you covered. If you've ever wanted to apply a single animation set to sets of frames all at once, including a live abstract, you can do it with LSX. If you've ever wished to use an unlimited set of animation effects, even of the same type, of different effective timeline lengths, all applied and added together simultaneously, join the LSX users group and you'll be satisfied!

http://innolasers.com/laser/LSX/pulse.jpg

Pricing:
LSX is offered at a loss-leader introductory pricing rate for the first 30 days. During this break-in time, development will continue and I'll put out updates on a regular basis as user feedback comes in. Each license can be tied to a dongle, RIYA controller (recommended), QM controller (in testing), or computer. As with ILD SOS and LaserCam, updates will be issued as they are created and tested, and you'll receive an email informing you of the new update availability and what's in it. Please don't wait to join the fun, the sooner I get your feedback, the better LSX can get.

http://innolasers.com/laser/LSX/cupid.jpg

Support:
There are help buttons in various places in LSX to assist you and clarify operation in complex areas. Please read these! There is also a user manual and tutorial videos under development. I could use help with these, please contact me if you are interested. I have also created a support forum for LSX intended to be the best place for your questions to be answered, and also the best place where you can share your presets, animations, and shows:
http://lasershowforums.com
Also included in that forum are sub-forums where DAC compatibility (listed by name) and use can be discussed, as well as your projects. Everyone is welcome to join, not just LSX users.

Sorry this ended up getting so long. Feel free to ask any questions and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

Links:
The Sale Page
The New Support Forum

I've had the LSX "PRO" upgrade for a few weeks now for informal testing. It is, for lack of a better word, WICKED. If your striving for a different artistic "look" this software will generate it. Color range is just phenom.

The ability to apply inline math in real time to a frame or function or show allows for a unprecedented flexibility. If your tired of your timeline based shows looking the same time after time, this software can take you to new places using the Novation/Midi inputs.

Right at a time I was considering ditching lasers, as I could only see a very expensive upgrade path to my two decade old "industry standard" control package, this came along and rekindled my interest. Now I see it as a compliment to what I already use.

I requested a few minor changes to various functions, and Dr Lava was very considerate and fast in adding those changes.


Even if you don't use the math, there are enough stock functions to apply to keep you busy for a long, long time.

Setup was painless. I'm running it on a old IBM P40 laptop and have no problems obtaining good output.


Steve

Any chance of getting some YouTube footage up showing the interface and output in action?

Very intersting.. Will the software work with a Medialas USB Hyperport DAC?

Nice work Dr. drlava:cool:

Like Steve, I, too, have been beta-testing this software that Andrew has been working on, and I heartily agree with Steve's assessment. This software is *very* cool.

The timeline interface will be immediately familiar to just about everyone. And if you want, you can start building a show right away using the built-in effects. Unlike most other timeline interfaces, LSX has no real limit on the number of frame tracks, or the number of effects you can add to a single track. This makes it easy to build up complicated effects by grouping lots of simple ones together.

But to really unlock the power of this software, you need to delve into the expression editor that is part of the effects properties window. There, you can create *extremely* complex effects by entering mathematical equations that will perform intricate transforms on your frame file as it is rendered. You can even write short segments of pseudo-code into the expression editor, and the software will execute this code (almost like a subroutine) each time the effect is triggered.

What can you do with all this? Well, in theory you could program an entire laser show, complete with beams, fans, tunnels, abstracts, and other atmospheric effects, using nothing more than a single ILDA frame consisting of just 1 point. In practice, I haven't gotten that far yet, but I can see how it could be done.

What I have seen is a short series of expressions that can turn a simple white circle into an undulating, rainbow-colored, wavy rose curve that modulates through several iterations in time. And remember, this is just an EFFECT applied to a frame. We haven't even talked about the built-in abstract generator...

I've only just scratched the surface of this software, and I plan to spend more time experimenting with it in the future, but I can tell you now that it is *very * powerful. Even if you already own a high-end software suite, LSX is still a valuable tool to add to your collection. The procedural-driven effects allow you to modify simple ILDA frames into complex and unique frames that you can then output as ILDA frames to be used in other software.

Now, there is one small down-side to this software. Because it is so powerful, many of the advanced features will take you a while to learn how to use. There is a definite learning curve associated with LSX, and I'm still on the steep side of that curve myself. Andrew has added a number of help files to guide new users through the software.

If you're used to Mamba Black or Quickshow, understand that this will be a big step up, both in power and complexity. It's going to take you some time to get the hang of things. I suggest that you start small, and work with the built-in effects for a while until you master the basics of the user interface.

Here is a screenshot of the main interface:

http://www.photonlexicon.com/gallery...Xinterface.gif

Click on the picture to get a larger image.

The astute observer will observe that the interface looks a lot like the old Laser Design Studio software. It also closely resembles Phoenix. The reason for this similarity is that all three packages share parts of the same code base. But Andrew has added a large number of features that you won't find in LDS or Phoenix.

Andrew's software is also considerably more stable than either LDS or Phoenix - at least based on my tests. (I've downloaded the demo version of Phoenix twice, and both times it crashed often enough that I decided it wasn't worth my time. I've also seen LDS crash more than once at past SELEM's.) By contrast, LSX only locked up on me once - during the early days of beta testing - and Andrew fixed that with a quick update.

Adam

Is there going to be a demo version available? (I.e. No save; no laser output etc...)

Genuine question: How does it compare to LD2000 + Showtime?
[popcorn]

Looks VERY cool!! :D

How soon do you expect to have a full (BASIC level) release ready for the QM2000?

@drlava

I was just stumbling around on your ordering page wanting to place an order, as a few questions arose during the selection process.

Selecting the software license is clear, except for, how does future upgrading look. For example if I get the basic now can I upgrade to the pro later or do I have to pay the full pro-license price?

The DAC selection is a little confusing, due to the word “bundle” in the selections drop down. What do these bundle selections lite, basic and pro consist of? Does that mean if I get a basic software license and I want one of these RIYA DACs that I would have to get the basic DAC version/bundle?:confused:

cheers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by danielbriggs

Is there going to be a demo version available? (I.e. No save; no laser output etc...)

Genuine question: How does it compare to LD2000 + Showtime?
[popcorn]

---

Daniel,

I'd say for a serious user, they compliment each other. Fords and BMWs both do the function "Automobile" and do many of the same things the same way, for there is no other way to do the core function of "Automobile" which is to drive down the road to move people from A to B. So the core functions you would expect are there. LDS was a fairly mature product. However there are differences in ride, feel, power steering, braking response etc. Both programs are sophisticated, both can do many of the same things.

Its difficult to compare.



On the other hand, I can, in LSX, create many effects I need from a point or line, and not need to use the math expression evaluator to do it, there are very flexible built in tools to just that. They then become reusable events. Where it gets interesting, is once you copy your "creation", you can edit it and modify it independently at other locations in the time line.

So its apples and oranges, both can do the job, if your hungry.

LDS is a mature product in many ways. It has/had some interface quirks which made it less then intuitive. LSX has the user interface quirks removed and many other improvements. It flies in spots where LDS stuttered.

There is content with the system. It comes with a good collection of beam shows. A few graphics shows. It has a set of tutorial shows to learn from. It has a demo graphics show which is mindblowing.

Music sync is right on the money. Preview display is very good.

When I bought LDS, and when I first played with it at SELEM, the impression was this: colors were fantastic, user interface was crap and slow, and it crashed fairly often, as Buffo said. Accessing everything was a confusing mess of left clicks. At SELEM many Pango users viewed it as having potential, but not quite there yet. Andrew listened and watched that session. Andrew has recoded the core, switched it to a better compiler. it now runs very smooth and fast. He switched it over from a weird mouse usage to the Windows standard. He's greatly improving the help files.

LSX is a whole new animal. Its not crashing, the user interface looks very similar in screen shots, but is very, very, different in use. With a 3 Button mouse, its a breeze to use. Much more information is available at once, there is less hopping between screens in LSX compared to LDS.


Steady feature improvements arrive as experienced Laserists get their hands on the package. I've spent a few half days up in Cleveland. Dr Lava is doing a great job listening, then applying suggestions. The day before yesterday I called him with a issue, and he spent a hour on the phone with me, as we went through the new features, and then I asked for improvements in Masterbeam, which is the simple real time console. Five hours later I got a download and a phone call. Masterbeam was improved. Suggestions were acted upon when they were reasonable. I'm not the only Laserist making contributions, I keep seeing refinements leap in.

As Adam said, the learning curve is a little steep. If your already used to "Showtime", you will feel right at home, however the seemingly unlimited "tracks" and "events" and "effects" in LSX will take a while to get used to. LSX is a little different in that, unless you tell it otherwise (Easy) everything on a time line track applies to all time line tracks above it. You can have more then three effects acting on a event. You also do not need "reset track" commands, you can't "stick" a event.

But guess what, if you have never used either LSX or Showtime, both have about the same learning curve.

There is a significant difference in philosophy. In LSX you create a show and build your world around it. You don't need to go to Masterbeam to do some of the things which "Live!" does, you can just turn on a Midi keyboard or a virtual on screen midi keyboard and assign keys to events on the existing time line. So you can have a show play to music, as a classical laser show, and then turn right around and use it in a club as a manual effects console or under external MIDI or DMX.

So, is LSX better then LD, or is LD better then LSX? Its highly subjective.

Both LSX and LD are now so complex that there is no way a manual can cover everything. That has long been the case with LD, I think manuals stopped with LD400 running on Amiga way back in the day. So just like LD, as LSX gains a user base, it will be better and better. LD/Showtime pro users tell me it takes about 2 years to fully utilize all the features of the software, and this will be no different.


LSX and LD are marketed in two very different ways. Differences between a low end LSX package and a "Pro" LSX will be hard to spot by a beginner, where there is a marked contrast in differences between Intro, Basic and Pro in Pangolin products.

Will there be a battle for hearts and minds, yes. LSX will force innovation in competing products. Competitors will counter, and we as consumers will get better tools. That is how capitalism is supposed to work.

Steve

DrLava:

The introductory price appears to be a tremendous value particularly for the hobbyist.

I built my own laser scanner with a sound card DAC (after spending about 4 to 6 months reading through the Photonlexicon's forums and threads). I am currently using Spaghetti software, however, I have longed to be able to create graphics. The next level up appears to be QuickShow, however, I have not been able bring myself to justify the $595 price.

As for licensing, in your introductory description there appears to be an option to tie it to a dongle, controller or the computer. When purchasing from the website, how can I select the dongle licensing option?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by danielbriggs

How does it compare to LD2000 + Showtime?

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In my opinion, Showtime is easier to use. Also, there is a lot of content already out there for Showtime. LSX will only have a few demo modules with it; beyond that, you'll be on your own.

LSX can do some really mind-blowing stuff though. (3D warping, 3D wrapping, intricate transforms, abstracts like you've *never* seen before, and incredible effects that can be programmed to do literally anything you can dream of.) And in that respect I think it's probably more versatile than even Showtime is. It's also considerably more affordable, making it very attractive to the hobbyist who is looking for the most power for his dollar.

The procedural effects in particular have to be seen to be believed. However, you really need a solid background in either mathematics (algebra and trig) and/or simple computer programming in order to really unlock the power of these expression-based effects. So yeah, there is a definite learning curve with LSX, and it's much steeper than the one for Showtime.

One big difference between LSX and Showtime is that LSX offers is the ability to stack multiple iterations of even the most simple effects (without diving into the complex expression editor at all) to create hybrid effects that are very intricate. For example (keeping it simple here), you could have a rotate about Z effect, and then add a second rotate about Z effect below it and a little later on the timeline. This would produce a "speed shift" when the second effect started.

To do this in showtime, you have to replace the first rotate effect with a second one that has a higher speed, because you can't have two effects that do the same thing active in the same track at the same time. But in LSX, you can have as many effects as you want (up to the limit of your computer's memory), so there's essentially no limit to how deep you can stack effects.

Some people might prefer Showtime's standard of only having one rotate effect for the track, and I can see how that might actually be preferable for a professional show designer who is following a script or a storyboard. But I have often wanted the freedom to stack effects in order to create new visuals, without having to calculate ahead of time exactly what combination of settings would be required to pull it off using just a single effect.

Where this "effect-stacking" really shows it's power is when you start combining move effects with rotate effects and color effects, all while the frame is being drawn. It's fairly simple to turn a circle into a cross, or an octagon, or some wavy abstract shape that has no name. Add some point-count-based color effects and you've got a flying, wispy line that curves through the air, trailing a blaze of color that slowly fades away as it moves. You've got to see it to believe it...

There are some quirks to the LSX interface that you'll need to get used to. One is that the navigation buttons are spread out among three sides (top, left, and bottom) of the main window, and some of the most common controls (play, stop, pause, zoom, etc) are located at the bottom. Also, the frame list window is not normally open while you are working on the timeline, which is different from the way most people use Showtime. Still, these are minor differences that most users will quickly adapt to.

The effects editor is very daunting the first time you look at it, and it might actually scare some people off. By contrast, Showtime's effect editor is a lot easier to grasp when you first load it, and overall I think that Showtime is more user-friendly that LSX. But what LSX lacks in ease of use it more than makes up for in raw power. Even with the built-in effects, you'll be amazed at what you can do with the software right out of the box.

Hopefully there will be some video available soon to showcase some of the power you can unlock with this software. ;)

And in closing, I agree with Steve: LSX is valuable even if you already own another laser show software package (including Pangolin's LD-2000 system), because of the versatility of the effects editor as a frame-creation tool. I think a Basic license for LSX would nicely compliment *any* laser show software suite.

Adam

[QUOTE=buffo;193076]In my opinion, Showtime is easier to use. Also, there is a lot of content already out there for Showtime. LSX will only have a few demo modules with it; beyond that, you'll be on your own.

More then a few, Content will come with time as the user base grows

LSX can do some really mind-blowing stuff though. (3D warping, 3D wrapping, intricate transforms, abstracts like you've *never* seen before, and incredible effects that can be programmed to do literally anything you can dream of.) And in that respect I think it's probably more versatile than even Showtime is. It's also considerably more affordable, making it very attractive to the hobbyist who is looking for the most power for his dollar.

The procedural effects in particular have to be seen to be believed. However, you really need a solid background in either mathematics (algebra and trig) and/or simple computer programming in order to really unlock the power of these expression-based effects. So yeah, there is a definite learning curve with LSX, and it's much steeper than the one for Showtime.


I think we will see a sticky on unit circles and basic trig appear on PL. Before you think Adam and I are running two different versions of the same software, please remember, its mind blowing and very versatile. He's found functions I have not seen yet, and I've found ones he has not explored either. I'm 45 minutes from the "Main Office" and got a bit of a personal demo. If the idea of using trig scares you, don't let it. I can save a effect and send it to you. In fact, there means for me to name and distribute the effect and make it so it either can't be modified,set to slightly hackable, or open source. Effects content will be out there. Effects IP is set up so you can distribute my effect with your mods and we both get credit for it in the credits box. There is built in trig you can select and it will "paste" it into the effect.


Some people might prefer Showtime's standard of only having one rotate effect for the track, and I can see how that might actually be preferable for a professional show designer who is following a script or a storyboard. But I have often wanted the freedom to stack effects in order to create new visuals, without having to calculate ahead of time exactly what combination of settings would be required to pull it off using just a single effect.

Yes, when I first cracked this open, I thought, Oh, Wayyyy too complex, Showtime's easier! I'm changing my mind on that one. Its not that different, you just need to remember to look for effects below what your working on, that may affect you.


Where this really shows it's power is when you start combining move effects with rotate effects and color effects, all while the frame is being drawn. It's fairly simple to turn a circle into a cross, or an octagon, or some wavy abstract shape that has no name. Add some point-count-based color effects and you've got a flying, wispy line that curves through the air, trailing a blaze of color that slowly fades away as it moves. Yeah, it's cool like that!

Agreed!

There are some quirks to the LSX interface that you'll need to get used to. One is that the navigation buttons are spread out among three sides (top, left, and bottom) of the main window, and some of the most common controls (play, stop, pause, zoom, etc) are located at the bottom. Also, the frame list window is not normally open while you are working on the timeline, which is different from the way most people use Showtime. Still, these are minor differences that most users will quickly adapt to.

There is a add ILDA function so you will not have to have PICEDIT open to make all additions. I asked for that, and am glad it was added. Again, a difference in Philosophy, you assemble your frames away from the show. You do not have to 100% assemble all frames up front.

The effects editor is very daunting the first time you look at it, and it might actually scare some people off. By contrast, Showtime's effect editor is a lot easier to grasp when you first load it, and overall I think that Showtime is more user-friendly that LSX. But what LSX lacks in ease of use it more than makes up for in raw power. Even with the built-in effects, you'll be amazed at what you can do with the software right out of the box.

It does require patience. But it took me three days to find Showtime's animation button in the old days. Our award winning beam show was programmed entirely with still frames manipulated by effects, because the tiny animation button was on the left at the edge of the editor screen. Not over at the right with the effects. You really had to look for it.
Two of us working on that show in 10 hour shifts did not see it for 3 days. :rolleyes: Then again, the artistic difference in how that looked might have been why we placed second in a peer voted competition full of drunken laserists and their guests!

Steve

First off, thank you for your questions and responses, everyone. After working on something for so long, the worst thing possible is to just have it ignored, so your posts and PMs made my day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by swamidog

Any chance of getting some YouTube footage up showing the interface and output in action?

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Yes, video tutorials, especially a getting started video tutorial are on the shortlist of things to get done soon. With those, you'll be able to get a faster feel for how to do things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Solarfire

Very intersting.. Will the software work with a Medialas USB Hyperport DAC?

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LSX supports the mamba interface in frame mode, according to the spec posted on their site. If that DAC follows that interface specification, then yes!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by danielbriggs

Is there going to be a demo version available? (I.e. No save; no laser output etc...)

Genuine question: How does it compare to LD2000 + Showtime?
[popcorn]

---

Yes, demos are available on a per-user request, send me a PM for a demoversion. For your second question, I'm glad others have tacked it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Solarfire

@drlava

I was just stumbling around on your ordering page wanting to place an order, as a few questions arose during the selection process.

Selecting the software license is clear, except for, how does future upgrading look. For example if I get the basic now can I upgrade to the pro later or do I have to pay the full pro-license price?

The DAC selection is a little confusing, due to the word “bundle” in the selections drop down. What do these bundle selections lite, basic and pro consist of? Does that mean if I get a basic software license and I want one of these RIYA DACs that I would have to get the basic DAC version/bundle?:confused:

cheers!

---

Thank you for your questions. I'll add 'upgrade' options to the list to clarify things. Basically, Leveling up with be the price difference plus $20. You can select any DAC type you want with any level, I'll make changes to clarify that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turbohead

DrLava:

The introductory price appears to be a tremendous value particularly for the hobbyist.

I built my own laser scanner with a sound card DAC (after spending about 4 to 6 months reading through the Photonlexicon's forums and threads). I am currently using Spaghetti software, however, I have longed to be able to create graphics. The next level up appears to be QuickShow, however, I have not been able bring myself to justify the $595 price.

As for licensing, in your introductory description there appears to be an option to tie it to a dongle, controller or the computer. When purchasing from the website, how can I select the dongle licensing option?

---

Good question, I'll add that to the site also. Basically, you tell me in an email or PM the serial number of the device you want to tie it to, and that's about it. I'll set the activation to follow your request. One of the really nice things about this setup is that when you want to use more controllers, you simply have to purchase them, you don't have to re-purchase the software.

To Adam and Steve, your posts are so long I won't quote them here, but thank you both, as well as every other user, for your enthusiasm and suggestions, and honest posts.

I started playing with the demo version last night... all I can say is wow. I've only spend a few minutes with the software, my head was exploding with possibilities. The rendered preview is beautiful. I had laser control software dreams last night. :)

Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blowfly

I've only spend a few minutes with the software and my head was exploding with possibilities.

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Yeah, that was pretty much the same reaction I had when I first saw it. :)

Adam

First off; Steve, Adam,
Many thanks for the thorough responses; the effort is appreciated.

I'm glad the conclusion I draw from your remarks is "good but different". :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mixedgas

There is a significant difference in philosophy. In LSX you create a show and build your world around it. You don't need to go to Masterbeam to do some of the things which "Live!" does, you can just turn on a Midi keyboard or a virtual on screen midi keyboard and assign keys to events on the existing time line. So you can have a show play to music, as a classical laser show, and then turn right around and use it in a club as a manual effects console or under external MIDI or DMX.

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That would be interesting to try out on a show...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buffo

there is a lot of content already out there for Showtime. LSX will only have a few demo modules with it; beyond that, you'll be on your own.

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That is not an issue; I like to try to make the content where I can. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buffo

It's also considerably more affordable, making it very attractive to the hobbyist who is looking for the most power for his dollar.

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Not from my point of view; as LD is bundled with the QM ;)
But I am considering it from "another screwdriver for the toolbox" view :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buffo

The procedural effects in particular have to be seen to be believed. However, you really need a solid background in either mathematics (algebra and trig) and/or simple computer programming in order to really unlock the power of these expression-based effects.

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Again, that would be really interesting to play around with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buffo

You've got to see it to believe it...

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Heehee, hopefully I can get a demo version... *Andrew* PM incoming! *retardo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mixedgas

So its apples and oranges, both can do the job, if your hungry.

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&&

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buffo

And in closing, I agree with Steve: LSX is valuable even if you already own another laser show software package (including Pangolin's LD-2000 system), because of the versatility of the effects editor as a frame-creation tool. I think a Basic license for LSX would nicely compliment *any* laser show software suite.

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Excellent :)


Best Regards,
Dan

Hey Sir Andrew - :cool:

OK, #1, *bitchin*, I'm stoked... :)

Request 1: Wish to discuss (..yes, *original*...) content... frames and shows... :cool:

R 2: Not sure why you would not have considered me / us for Beta-testing... yes, extremely busy, all the time, but, ie: just finished a gig where for 15 days, had all day, every day, free, until 'show-time' each nite... Sure hope it's not that I am 'deemed unreliable', or something, now... :rolleyes: Would love to dig into this 'cookiejar', and can promise you, I'll give it a 'proper stretch'... >:) And, already have a RIYA PCI Pro card...

R 3: ...*Please* don't 'sell-out'... :) Competition is good. http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...ons/icon14.png

I guess we can chat more, PM-style, if yer interested in chatting... :cool:
L8r...
j

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stuka

Looks VERY cool!! :D

How soon do you expect to have a full (BASIC level) release ready for the QM2000?

---

[bump]

Would be interested in finding out how soon a fully tested version will be ready for the QM2000...
and if it will work with the QM2000.net! :)

Right about now is when Pangolin want to deliver the FB3 SDK......

Excellent work, Andrew! Now I have a good reason to finish building my own projector (I could use some help)...:rolleyes:

Dean

Round 2: :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buffo

In my opinion, Showtime is easier to use. Also, there is a lot of content already out there for Showtime. LSX will only have a few demo modules with it; beyond that, you'll be on your own.

---

A little correction.. the pro version has over 200 script effects that can be dropped in to any show, and also over 100 shows included, from which you can learn from and copy and paste stuff, if desired! There is a learning hump, but when you consider how long your brain has been trained to use other software, it's not as bad as it first seems.

Quote:

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There are some quirks to the LSX interface that you'll need to get used to. One is that the navigation buttons are spread out among three sides (top, left, and bottom) of the main window, and some of the most common controls (play, stop, pause, zoom, etc) are located at the bottom.

---

The good news here is that those buttons are on tool bars, so if you want all of them on top, you can drag all of them on top and they'll stay there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dsli_jon

Hey Sir Andrew - :cool:

OK, #1, *bitchin*, I'm stoked... :)

Request 1: Wish to discuss (..yes, *original*...) content... frames and shows... :cool:

R 2: Not sure why you would not have considered me / us for Beta-testing... yes, extremely busy, all the time, but, ie: just finished a gig where for 15 days, had all day, every day, free, until 'show-time' each nite... Sure hope it's not that I am 'deemed unreliable', or something, now... :rolleyes: Would love to dig into this 'cookiejar', and can promise you, I'll give it a 'proper stretch'... >:) And, already have a RIYA PCI Pro card...

R 3: ...*Please* don't 'sell-out'... :) Competition is good. http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...ons/icon14.png

I guess we can chat more, PM-style, if yer interested in chatting... :cool:
L8r...
j

---

Hi Jon, let's talk. Pretty much all of the 'beta testers' became such because they were purchasing a DAC or something and I offered it to them. No negative reasons, I do know you're a very busy guy and I have the utmost respect for that and your work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stuka

[bump]

Would be interested in finding out how soon a fully tested version will be ready for the QM2000...
and if it will work with the QM2000.net! :)

---

Sorry for missing your first post! Part of the trouble with getting it to work with QM2k is I don't have one to debug with. But, ILD SOS and LaserCam works with QM2k, and apparently the QM32 works with it, so it's just around the corner. .net, as far as I know should work no differently than a slotted card.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by norty303

Right about now is when Pangolin want to deliver the FB3 SDK......

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Agreed! I asked again a few days ago and the response seemed to indicate that it would be after B was completely finished later in the summer. Hopefully it will come true this time, others have said it will never happen, who knows? The good news is a RIYA Lite is darn cheap and you won't have to wait because it's available NOW.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dchammonds

Excellent work, Andrew!

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Thank you for the props, you should definitely finish it so you can enjoy what you've made, too.


I've sent out some demos, if I missed anyone please send a PM!

Got the demo - thanks!

Haven't had much time to play with it, but I love the example effects.

One issue: Norton Internet Security 2011 doesn't like realtime.exe :confused:

Had to tell NIS to ignore it to make it stop deleting it.

/Thomas

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badpip

Got the demo - thanks!

Haven't had much time to play with it, but I love the example effects.

One issue: Norton Internet Security 2011 doesn't like realtime.exe :confused:

Had to tell NIS to ignore it to make it stop deleting it.

/Thomas

---

It freaks out my avast software too.

chad

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by drlava

Sorry for missing your first post! Part of the trouble with getting it to work with QM2k is I don't have one to debug with. But, ILD SOS and LaserCam works with QM2k, and apparently the QM32 works with it, so it's just around the corner. .net, as far as I know should work no differently than a slotted card.

---

if you need someone to test on a .NET let me know :)

I am still confused about how you are tying the software... if I tie it to the computer am I screwed if the machine gets hosed? how are you tying it to the PC?? if I select dongle it seems like it wants a SN, does that mean I have to have it already? or are you selling dongles?

does your software support multiple projectors? can you mix dacs? do you have support for DMX events in the timeline? (and if so support the DMX interface on the QM, or other USB DMX interfaces like the entech?)

I would really like to try out this software but I don't want to be tied down to my QM card if your software has good multi-projector support so I don't want to tie it to my QM serial #

also you mention a live interface, any screenshots of that yet?

will that have multi-projector/DMX support?

[QUOTE=flecom;193167]if you need someone to test on a .NET let me know :)

I am still confused about how you are tying the software... if I tie it to the computer am I screwed if the machine gets hosed? how are you tying it to the PC?? if I select dongle it seems like it wants a SN, does that mean I have to have it already? or are you selling dongles?

It can tie the security various ways, I have a dongle, before that I used the processor serial number. If your output device has a built in serial, that can be done as well. I had a machine croak, Dr Lava quickly switched me to another laptop. This is why I switched to the USB dongle, its small and unobtrusive.

Yes, it supports multiple projectors, if you have the right output devices and a decent PC.

DMX is a work in progress. Some DMX is already there, but I do not know which devices. I loaned Dr Lava a cheap DMX output device that I use, he has others he is working with. If you want the Entec support, Call Andrew, offer to loan him the hardware for a week, with the SDK.

I watched him use a Novation USB controller, so support for that is already there.

There is Multibeam, a simple human interface for real time. I'll post a screen shot. But remember, you can insert real time analog, midi, and dmx inputs into the time line as well. Its recursive, unlike Pangolin where Showtime precomputes everything, this timeline can interact while a show is running. So you do not need Multibeam. Yes, a normal show synced to music can have knob/slider/button inputs like a old analog abstract console.

One thing to keep in mind, as this builds momentum, Andrew will add functionality. You will not need to wait for the latest "Holy, Sacred, Date of Release" for all improvements to come out at once. Patches are simple, so far all I've had to do is download a zip and copy the file into the correct directory, and restart the software.


Steve

yes but where do I get that USB dongle? from him?

For FLECOM,

This is a show timeline ZOOMED WAY OUT with a Midi keyboard tied to it. You can mouse click the keys or use a real MIDI device. Each pair of blue dashed lines is a section of the show assigned to a external force. My laptop has a low res screen and does not do it justice. Steve
Attachment 25262

For FLECOM:

MIDI event screen for one MIDI key:

Note how it interacts with events on the time line.

DMX and Slider inputs are similar. You can call up a on screen slider bank and apply it in many different ways.


Masterbeam touch screen shot. Keep in mind keyboard keys, mouse, and MIDI/DMX Sliders also act on what Masterbeam is doing. I do not have a touchscreen so I use a mouse to activate the trickfilm/animation and to move the sliders.

I also added a BMP of the color linearity corrector for grins and giggles. You can correct for non-linear lasers by drawing the response curve you want.

I'm going to let Dr Lava answer questions for a while, I have a show to program.


Steve

Is it possible to let masterbeam run on "autopilot" (sound to light)?

Like the Virtual LJ function in QS, where random cues can be beattriggered by audio input.

This is really usefull for small private parties *DZ

/Thomas

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mixedgas

For FLECOM:

MIDI event screen for one MIDI key:

Note how it interacts with events on the time line.

DMX and Slider inputs are similar. You can call up a on screen slider bank and apply it in many different ways.


Masterbeam touch screen shot. Keep in mind keyboard keys, mouse, and MIDI/DMX Sliders also act on what Masterbeam is doing. I do not have a touchscreen so I use a mouse to activate the trickfilm/animation and to move the sliders.

I also added a BMP of the color linearity corrector for grins and giggles. You can correct for non-linear lasers by drawing the response curve you want.

I'm going to let Dr Lava answer questions for a while, I have a show to program.


Steve

---

yes I read about the DMX/MIDI input in the pro version, I should have clarified that I want to know if it has DMX output for projector shutters/beam tables/intelligent lighting etc

FLECOM,


I don't know which devices it supports, but at a quick glance I just found 9 DMX related time line commands and 3 DMX configuration screens. There are also "beamtable" and "static effect" functions. Also a DMX monitor window for inputs.

One additional window is a DMX fixture screen with CMYI color control.

I think that is a "Yes" to your question.


Steve

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flecom

if you need someone to test on a .NET let me know :)

I am still confused about how you are tying the software... if I tie it to the computer am I screwed if the machine gets hosed? how are you tying it to the PC?? if I select dongle it seems like it wants a SN, does that mean I have to have it already? or are you selling dongles?

does your software support multiple projectors? can you mix dacs? do you have support for DMX events in the timeline? (and if so support the DMX interface on the QM, or other USB DMX interfaces like the entech?)

I would really like to try out this software but I don't want to be tied down to my QM card if your software has good multi-projector support so I don't want to tie it to my QM serial #

also you mention a live interface, any screenshots of that yet?

will that have multi-projector/DMX support?

---

Hi Flecom, good questions. If you tie it to just a PC, it's locked to that hardware, yes. So I suggest using some sort of a dongle - your card, a riya, old LDS dongle, or I do have a few dongles available if you'd want to buy one for licensing. Just send a PM.

LSX supports multi-projectors and also using multiple DAC brands and types at the same time. Also, DMX output is supported with Easylase and USBDMX2 here: http://www.pcdmx.de/gb/hardware/usbdmx.htm
DMX Input is supported with easylase only right now, but this list will grow as time allows.
MIDI is supported with the standard MIDI enumeration so there are no restrictions there.

The live interface is currently pretty simple. It's workable, but it's not a big selling point other than it exists and can do cool stuff with a basic user interface. What LSX is best at right now is creating animations and dynamic art. The live interface can be used to control multiple projectors, but you'd set up what the buttons do (in a general way) for the projectors first, and use the MIDI interface to modify the effects per projector while performing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chad

It freaks out my avast software too.

chad

---

Thank you for the reports. Like with my other software, LSX is compressed and sometimes this freaks out some anti-virus scanners that are prone to false positives. When that happens I send it to them so they can put a signature on the whitelist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badpip

Is it possible to let masterbeam run on "autopilot" (sound to light)?

---

Currently, no. Right now I think of LSX as more a tool for artistic creation of laser art and show display. If you want hands-free auto switchbeams, I think DMX boards that come with some projectors can do that very cheaply. The live interface will grow, however, and so expect some form of automated helper down the line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flecom

yes I read about the DMX/MIDI input in the pro version, I should have clarified that I want to know if it has DMX output for projector shutters/beam tables/intelligent lighting etc

---

Yes, it can do that with the DMX interfaces listed, and the list will grow as time allows. I have a few models here to add in, already!

Does the multiple projector support take multiple DACs?

Yes, but you could use an ILDA splitter if you didn't want to use multiple DACs, a lot of people do that. But that is software independent.

does LSX support more than 3 color channels on a given ILDA output?

how about on a sound card dac?

it looks like the RIYA basic would be the cheapest ethernet enabled DAC you support? (do you support the ethernet interface?)

sad its only 3 colors tho :(

guess I wont be selling my QM2k.NET any time soon after all lol

LSX will do more than 3 color channels (it supports 6).. not from every source, but at least from frames. This is an area that is still being expanded.
There is a way to get the RIYA Basic and Pro to do 4 color channels by using the 'intensity' output, and yes, it is the most Inexpensive network DAC right now but you're correct it does not have 6 color channels.

So yes, hang on to your QM2k.net if that's a feature you need because it's one of the few that support many color channels. The NetLase also supports 6 color channels via ethernet, as does the Fiesta.

EDIT: Although the QM2k supports more than 3 color channels, after looking through the interface library, I can tell you that I found no way to send true color frames to it using more than 3 color channels (using the information available to me). For it to access its 5 or 6 color channels, you have to use palettes, not true color frames, which means for the purposes of true color frame streaming in LSX, the QM is a 3 color channel DAC. When a QM SDK update is made (it may have already been done) which allows definition of more than 3 color channel true color frames, I can add support for more color channels to this DAC. If anyone knows of a way to stream > 3 color channel frames to it without degrading to palette mode, please send me a PM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Badpip

Is it possible to let masterbeam run on "autopilot" (sound to light)?

Like the Virtual LJ function in QS, where random cues can be beattriggered by audio input.

This is really usefull for small private parties *DZ

/Thomas

---

I'm using LDS for a while now... As I own an easylase with dmx connectors, I'm able to control the "live section" with my dmx console (sliders and cues), so I think (but never used) if you program some sequences in your dmx console, you can let the soft playing himself, (and maybe synch with the music !).

I'm very sorry..Dr Lava send me the demo version of his new release, but I didn't take time to make a report....sorry for him.

For me LSX is the better laser software, you can plug many dacs, it's running without problem, you have so many function to make your own shows, possibilty of manipulation is incredible, just draw a line, and you can do what you want with.

I have build a new live page, and draw cues for two projectors, so, just one click and my RGB and my two satellites are playing something different (with two dacs of course).

Dr lava have added some new functions, and for sure he is on the right way.
I will go for an upgrade from LDS2010 pro to LSX 2011 pro for sure !
(and I will need some time to try all the new functions)

Edit ! The price....for adding a laser, you don't need to buy another soft...only a new dac (you can find some easylase1 for less than 150€ now ;-) )

Thank you for the demo Sir Andrew!!!

I will try to make the most of it, given my limited experience. Seriously contemplating the switch from lds to lsx, too.

I have to say I'm impressed. This goes beyond entry level software and still holds an entry level price tag, so I think a lot of people on PL will be very pleased about this.

Admittedly, I support the feature request for a sound card DAC. Since the LSX license is already capable of being tied to a computer, it's not possible to use two instances of LSX simultaneously when you're using a sound card. A lot of people here start out with a sound card DAC and upgrade to a dedicated system (Easylase, FB3, RIYA) later, so it's a good idea to offer migration.

When it comes to tying licenses to a specific computer, that has some snags to it depending on the way it is implemented. There are countless hacks out there who can 'trick' a program into thinking it's running on a different set of hardware, so it's a noble idea to work with, but it is fairly tricky to implement without opening up the door to piracy. For example, what if I installed LSX onto a virtual machine and made a carbon copy of it?

Another option would be to issue a read-only or cryptographic USB dongle with the LSX license, which allows you to use LSX once the dongle is plugged in (and working!). For example, you can use a signing system which sends a cryptographic hash of some computer-specific string (e.g. the network card's MAC address together with the computer name and the BIOS ID) which is returned by the dongle after encryption with a private key. The LSX installation on the computer only has the public key in memory, which can verify the correctness of the private key by decrypting the whole lot again. If the whole lot maps out, the license is valid (because a physical dongle is plugged in).

Other programs use an USB dongle as well but a lot of programs use a 'dumb' dongle which only presents a specific hardware and vendor ID to the operating system. The program then checks if the driver for that hardware/vendor ID is installed, but doesn't use the dongle after that. This is easy to circumvent by creating a small emulator driver which presents the vendor/device ID, causing the program to think there is a legitimate dongle plugged in.

Wow nice work!

Are more FlexModP3's going to be available still?

Also drlava, please message me regarding my pending V5 order... (please don't forget me!)

Thanks! :)

WOW!!!
PM sent for two demos===I like what I see.:o

interesting for sure, will read the post to see if it answers the questions:

with 1 rgb laser is lite sufficient?
will it support fb3 and/or easylase II
have to see the license binding possibilities

Michel

"will it support fb3?"

No third party can support FB3 until Pangolin releases a Software Development Kit for FB3.

Steve

Does it work on sound card DACs? :confused:

says it works with the EzAudDac which IIRC is a soundcard dac

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flecom

says it works with the EzAudDac which IIRC is a soundcard dac

---

I had a talk with him yesterday to clarify this. LSX would work with sound card based output devices with some restrictions on show content to prevent a virtual sound card from intercepting the included artwork.


Steve

thats kind of silly... so whats to stop you from playing any other DAC into an ADAT and intercepting it that way?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flecom

thats kind of silly... so whats to stop you from playing any other DAC into an ADAT and intercepting it that way?

---

Or connecting a logic analyzer to the databus of the DAC chips... No need to go Digital>Analog>Digital...

Or sniffing the packets to a ethernet connected DAC...

DRM is a waste of time IMHO, it can always be defeated.

But... If you can output anything to a DAC, it would mean that you have bought the software... So why would you need to export the frames in the first place?

/Thomas

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stoney3K

I have to say I'm impressed. This goes beyond entry level software and still holds an entry level price tag, so I think a lot of people on PL will be very pleased about this..

---

Hi Stoney, thank you. I have implemented a cryptographic system, however you are correct, the virtual machine remained a loophole that I hoped would have minimal impact. Now, however, clearly that is not workable so a dongle key in some form will be required. Unfortunately, quality keys tend to be $30-$40.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jayrob

Wow nice work!

Are more ... my pending V5 order...

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Hi Jay, I didn't forget you, will get a bunch of driver shipments out soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hakzaw1

WOW!!!
PM sent for two demos===I like what I see.:o

---

ok, look for a PM soon!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by michelrietveld

interesting for sure, will read the post to see if it answers the questions:

with 1 rgb laser is lite sufficient?
will it support fb3 and/or easylase II
have to see the license binding possibilities

Michel

---

with 1 RGB laser, lite is sufficient for control and creating shows, yes. It will support the easylase 2. I do not have one for testing, but so long as easylase.dll is able to talk with the easylase 2 it's no problem. One issue with the easylase series is that the new dll does not differentiate between controller types, so every interface (easylase, netlase, etc) enumerates all of the types of controllers, showing up as EasyLase 0, EasyLase 1, etc.. In order to differentiate controller types, you have to 'pay in' to get access to that part of their system. This is not worthwhile.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by allthatwhichis

Does it work on sound card DACs? :confused:

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Yes, it does on unprotected shows as well as shows you create.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flecom

thats kind of silly... so whats to stop you from playing any other DAC into an ADAT and intercepting it that way?

---

You have to differentiate between what is seen by artists as 'unavoidable, acceptable risk' and 'unacceptable hole'. The difference is - one would hope that an individual that has been in the laser field long enough to have a modified ADAT and the tools necessary would also have respect for the content. On the other hand, the individual who has never created a show and just purchased some new slick software and can immediately start piping out wav file rips after downloading audacity MAY not have the same level of respect for the content and what goes in to making it. Of course, only a small percentage would do that, most (even new users) would not. I'm sure you can argue otherwise, but I've found this to hold mostly true.

One thing I should point out here is that LSX gives you exceptional freedom with regards to export of (unprotected) content that you create and others share. One example is ILDA true color export - even advanced animations that you create are allowed to be exported easily, you won't have to worry about not being able to use your content on other systems. You can even record a live touchscreen/MasterBeam based performance right out to an ILDA stream for playback later.


I've just made a few more updates and have PMs to respond to, thank you everyone for your comments so far!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Badpip

Or connecting a logic analyzer to the databus of the DAC chips... No need to go Digital>Analog>Digital...

Or sniffing the packets to a ethernet connected DAC...

DRM is a waste of time IMHO, it can always be defeated.

But... If you can output anything to a DAC, it would mean that you have bought the software... So why would you need to export the frames in the first place?

/Thomas

---

No software protection works 100% so usually the idea is to throw enough hurdles up to keep honest people honest.

I did see a Save to ILD button in the UI. Disabled in the demo but I'm hoping it works as I think it will. It really bugs me that in Quickshow you can't save your shows out to a format that can be used in another software package.

Mike