New beamshow! Soon available!

There isn't a beamshow recording of it yet, because i didn't feel like fogging today.
will update the video embed when I have though!
But here is a show i've been working on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjc_s... her garden!!!

I have a few more done but I'm keeping those disclosed for a while.
Including a new graphics show.
But yeah at least u can see how on the music this beamshow is.
All frames, circkles and effects are made from scratch.

that spot on the middle of the camera is a scratch on the lens, im getting it fixed soon.
The scan angle can be much bigger but i just made it smaller for the hell of it now.
I will record the beamshow in a bigger area.

The music is made by my friend Glaze (aka woodentoaster)

I will be doing more of his music in the future and we are already discussing licensing:
here another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytKvgLuy7ng

I hopefully will be seeing glaze when i visit the UK again!

Hi PJ.
I was thinking where are the P.ny's?
But when the video ended i saw all your video's and yes there they where! ;)
I would like to see how it looks if we would see the beams, now where seeing only the figures on the wall which will not tell me if they give impact to the show.
You used a lot of effects, that's nice!
Wondering to see the whole show with haze and recorded in front of the projector.

well done !

(what is "scratch" ?)

Drawing every frame in the framedrawer, not loading in already made frames.
building effects not using one used in other shows or projectors already

nice show pj!

"the myth of the killer ape is true!"

Excellent show!, i'll bet it looks superb when viewing the beams. I particularly like how the circles come together to represent the lyrics in the bit "keep your friends close, they will drive you etc."... Circles come together then look like a steering wheel as if driving. Very nice and well thought out :)

Cheers

Jem

YIKES x Yikes !!! THAT is a really neat show....I want it...alot !! The music is perfect !!! THANK YOU !!! BEAM

So what is the site status, saw your FB tease, but didn;t see anything new on your site.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polishedball

So what is the site status, saw your FB tease, but didn;t see anything new on your site.

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My site will be selling the show on the 20th
My site lasershow shop is in working state


Finally right?

Teaser pic
Attachment 33020

Very nice! And, all custom frames...Wow! How many cases of Coke did you need to finish this show?

The show matches well with the music. I know that was said before, but it can't hurt to say it again.

Well done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by planters

Very nice! And, all custom frames...Wow! How many cases of Coke did you need to finish this show?

The show matches well with the music. I know that was said before, but it can't hurt to say it again.

Well done.

---

Thanks for the compliment. quite a few actually.
Great thing is the music is licensed by everest laser. meaning i can include it.

Secondly i have 3 more of these well timed shows upcoming at the same quality level.
and again: all custom frames and effects, all new again and no re-use
Start from scratch every show to get the best brightness and smoothest effects.

here is short sneak peak recorded secretly on the lem ;)
Start at 0:16
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvWc5...tailpage#t=16s


Created by josh loh (joshlohmusic)

Stay collimated for more information!
Attachment 33094

Hey guys,
My lasershow sale site just opened up.
To celebrate: price Reduction on the beamshow: Beyond her garden.
promo discount:
89.25 Euros or 112.32 Dollars Including tax!
75.00 Euros or 94.39 dollars excluding tax!
The music is licensed by us and included with the show.

Requirements: one RGB analog projector running at 30kpps.

Currently paypal is only supported.
But in a few days we support all other payment methods.
If you cannot pay with paypal right now: Please contact us and we will handle the payment manualy.

Be quick! This promotion only lasts half a week!

The site is: http://www.everestlaser.com/lasershowshop
You have to register to buy.
If you have pangolin: please fill in ur serial of QM and FB3.
If you have LSX: Fill in the serial that your LSX gives.
If not: select other and leave serial fields empty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by masterpj

You have to register to buy.

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why?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by masterpj

If you have pangolin: please fill in ur serial of QM and FB3.
If you have LSX: Fill in the serial that your LSX gives.

---

what is the purpose of this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LaNeK779

why?



what is the purpose of this?

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Standard practice for show artists selling their shows - the shows are locked to specific controller serial numbers so they can't be redistributed freely...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stuka

Standard practice for show artists selling their shows - the shows are locked to specific controller serial numbers so they can't be redistributed freely...

---

Yes but he provides ilda also I beleive.
or he said he would months ago.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LaNeK779

why?

To agree with my terms of service to provide some extra security to the ones creating content.
Same go's that we dont take responsibility for the shows we make thats why.

what is the purpose of this?

---

You have to agree with the TOS to buy a show, hence the register, its protection for the creators of shows including when other people will be able to sell there shows.

You shouldn't blame me for wanting to give just an extra protection measure to the ones creating.
I have seen loads of shows that are originally for sale being traded for free on lems just so people can obtain more shows.
And these shows are being used commercially!
The show protection also acts as a reminder to let you know you should not share this show as its a for sale show.

Another reason why we prefer you to register: buyers deserve support, we give it.
What kind of support on shows you may ask?
Setup problems in case of multi projector shows perhaps, issues with projection if so, issues with content on the show, little changes desired in a show (don't overdo that latter service option).
We want a client to be happy when he has his show, we dont want complaining on forums, if theres an issue we want to be able to support you as the buyer to the best we can.
Same will go for the creators, we help them, judge their show, offer fixing to the show if needed and more.
It's a personal service not a automatic lasershow spitting factory.

Regarding the price height: do one little gig and you just earned your show back, do more and you even made profit of a show that you didn't even have to make! :).

What im doing here is offering a little protection towards our content creators while the people that are more on the go travel laserists can just earn money and use some of that money to buy new shows and prevent their company/bussiness shows from being repetitive.
Both parties make profit, everybody wins! and our creative side can also profit as those are the vulnerable guys in our industry, they are often not good at selling their products to a client.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polishedball

Yes but he provides ilda also I beleive.
or he said he would months ago.

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Yes Ilda is provided.
Though the show is MUCH more compact in it's native format, making it easier to load the show in for instance LD2000, hence we then prefer you fill in your serial number.
also for the learning ones underneath us it also gives you an insight how someone made the show, so there is another advantage to having the native format.

Ilda's go trust based and also sharing trading and distribution of an bought ilda would be breaking that TOS.
I think it should be kinda apreciated that I not decided to ditch support for ilda, dispite it offering no security on my end other then the Terms of service.

If a client is unhappy with a show we are doing our best effort to fix the show a little bit, but we always recommend to check the video and requirements first before a show is being bought.
We do not give a refund to a bought show as someone might not remove the showfile when asking for a refund.

Let me know if this clears it all up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by masterpj

Regarding the price height: do one little gig and you just earned your show back, do more and you even made profit of a show that you didn't even have to make! :).

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Just cause you brought it up, your pricing seems on the high side. Rupert and Dunn are both about $100 USA a show module. With hour long shows being in the $900~$1500 range.

I know I can't drop almost $400 at regular price for some show, no one (or very few) will ever know the music too anyhow.

A gig needs more than one show :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polishedball

Just cause you brought it up, your pricing seems on the high side. Rupert and Dunn are both about $100 USA a show module. With hour long shows being in the $900~$1500 range.

I know I can't drop almost $400 at regular price for some show, no one (or very few) will ever know the music too anyhow.

A gig needs more than one show :p

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Regarding dollars, sadly we live in the netherlands.
Tax is as high as 19% here so that makes prices go pretty fast.

Lasershows aren't products from china and people do need to live you know.
Considering you are living in belgium we are already talking euro's.
You dont do a show in the netherlands for less because a lasershow in kenya or america is cheaper because of the valuta they use.. thats rediculous.

I'm willing to play around some more with prices but.
I am going to assume with rupert and dunn we are talking beamshows here.
Graphics shows aren't common and thats because they take A LOT of time, electricity, knowledge, experience to make.
On top of that this data costs me bandwith and more, and the list go's on and on.

Just look at an graphics show of avi and the pricing that comes with it (if you are lucky to buy it) and you will understand what I mean.
But even short animations can take a lot of time if they have a lot of detail, these things can be reused and makes your company stand out.

Though I have indeed considered your price comment here I decided to lower the price of content a little bit to make it look more fair.
I am not dropping further though in price, remember we need to eat too, im not doing this for pocket money.

Regarding a gig needing more then one show, yes but a lot of gigs contain liveplays or a switch between pre-programmed and live.
Also do consider whatever your software would be, most of the time they come pre-packed with shows u can always throw in and from there build up.

On top of that mention rupert here: you do are aware we might be selling his shows soon?

If you register on the site I can see that you are interested in one of my products and it would be wise to do so.
I do not deliver show support to people who are not registered on my site, because they cannot buy a product even.

Regarding your last point about music not being known.
Here's the thing: we licensed it, it's special.
Do people have to know the music to enjoy it? Do you want to go out, painstakely find the music or buy it yourself on itunes just to figure out its not in sync?
In fact at some places you need a license to play back certain music and yes i'm serious there are places where your required to pay to play certain music.

I kinda feel in general that prices are kinda low, (this comming from a guy who wants to program most of the time as a job *retardo ) But when I sit down for 10+ hours to write a show, making all new cues, all new movements, etc. I want it to be worth it for all that time and effort. if the show sells for $100 that's $10 a hour, and when when you factor in everything that doesn't leave much for the programmer in the end. Though most people who write shows for a living work with companies like Pango or Showtacle or you know, all the bigger guys, and they get paid by those companies what they deserve, (at least from what I can see) but when it comes to a freelance situation, these programmers are kind left in the dark. pun slightly intended.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gabe

I kinda feel in general that prices are kinda low, (this comming from a guy who wants to program most of the time as a job *retardo ) But when I sit down for 10+ hours to write a show, making all new cues, all new movements, etc. I want it to be worth it for all that time and effort. if the show sells for $100 that's $10 a hour, and when when you factor in everything that doesn't leave much for the programmer in the end. Though most people who write shows for a living work with companies like Pango or Showtacle or you know, all the bigger guys, and they get paid by those companies what they deserve, (at least from what I can see) but when it comes to a freelance situation, these programmers are kind left in the dark. pun slightly intended.

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^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he just said

Also just because someone wants to drop as low as 100$ for a show.. fine with me.. doesn't mean im dropping to the 100$ range or lower.
Stay realistic please.
Thats like asking for a projector of a 200$ and expecting it to be full color ilda TTL and with 30kpps scanners.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gabe

I kinda feel in general that prices are kinda low, (this comming from a guy who wants to program most of the time as a job *retardo ) But when I sit down for 10+ hours to write a show, making all new cues, all new movements, etc. I want it to be worth it for all that time and effort. if the show sells for $100 that's $10 a hour, and when when you factor in everything that doesn't leave much for the programmer in the end. Though most people who write shows for a living work with companies like Pango or Showtacle or you know, all the bigger guys, and they get paid by those companies what they deserve, (at least from what I can see) but when it comes to a freelance situation, these programmers are kind left in the dark. pun slightly intended.

---

But when the show sells 10 times it is 100 an hour. I will pay the $100 a minute price for custom work as that's the going rate for the laser artists I have used but when it is a show that will be sold over and over it just seems high.

Mike Dunn shows are mostly graphic.

RE: Rupert. Yeah I put ya in touch with him. :rolleyes: I was referring to the pricing for his shows on stanwax's

Honestly I only mentioned price cause you brought it up. I am of the opinion charge what you need and what it is worth, was just tossing out the comparisons as you mentioned it. Your work is vey nice, and I mean no insult by mentioning the whole pricing.

It most likely comes down to if you want to deal with pro's or hobbiest's. Sell the show to 2 pros at top dollar or 20+hobbiest's at a lower rate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polishedball

But when the show sells 10 times it is 100 an hour. I will pay the $100 a minute price for custom work as that's the going rate for the laser artists I have used but when it is a show that will be sold over and over it just seems high.

Mike Dunn shows are mostly graphic.

RE: Rupert. Yeah I put ya in touch with him. :rolleyes: I was referring to the pricing for his shows on stanwax's

Honestly I only mentioned price cause you brought it up. I am of the opinion charge what you need and what it is worth, was just tossing out the comparisons as you mentioned it. Your work is vey nice, and I mean no insult by mentioning the whole pricing.

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Again im not located in the US and we got tax, im not dropping price just because someone else is doing it for less.
I'm sorry :( thats just not possible.

However!
Just because your here right now, im going to ask you this interesting question.

What would you pay for:
- Beyond her garden beamshow
- So many wonders 2 projector split graphics show

Also one point (no bashing to mike dunn)
Checking his shows here its mostly abstracts, When i'm talking graphics show Im meaning all frames either drawn of made in 3D software that really show something recognizable..
I dont use abstracts in my shows, my graphics shows contain stories, lipsync, custom models everytime, custom enviroments and more
In fact some of them even utilise voice acting which are releasing soon... so yeah we are talking about a very high grade amount of graphics shows coming which really can't and wont go for a mare 100$

if the show sells 10 times it's not 100$ an hour.
well if you look at it plainly it does seem like that.
But then!
- Bandwith cost minus one.
- Food you spend Minus again
- Electricity you spend Minus again
- tax you have to pay over each showsale Minus again

100$ a minute for a graphics show????
That minute could contain quite some frames taking several hours perhaps 2 days of like 9 hours... depending on what we are talking about here.
Thats really low wage.
Have you ever considered how much a regular 3D artist gets paid?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by masterpj

^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Stay realistic please.
Thats like asking for a projector of a 200$ and expecting it to be full color ilda TTL and with 30kpps scanners.

---

Full color and TTL confused. TTL can only make like 7 colors. Did you mean analog.

I'm done here, as you keep editing and changing your posts. Keep a thought or add to it.

There is a promo discount going on!
89.25 Euros or 112.32 Dollars Including tax!
75.00 Euros or 94.39 dollars excluding tax!
For the beyond her garden show
3 minutes of a completely custom beamshow with licensed music!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gabe

I kinda feel in general that prices are kinda low, (this comming from a guy who wants to program most of the time as a job *retardo ) But when I sit down for 10+ hours to write a show, making all new cues, all new movements, etc. I want it to be worth it for all that time and effort. if the show sells for $100 that's $10 a hour, and when when you factor in everything that doesn't leave much for the programmer in the end. Though most people who write shows for a living work with companies like Pango or Showtacle or you know, all the bigger guys, and they get paid by those companies what they deserve, (at least from what I can see) but when it comes to a freelance situation, these programmers are kind left in the dark. pun slightly intended.

---

you are assuming you sell 1 show

if you sell 10 shows thats $100/hr

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flecom

if you sell 10 shows thats $100/hr

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I really don't think I could manage 10 sales on a single show, seems kinda impossible. Unless its a really great show, but, that would take much longer to produce.

Im trying to understand your pricing quoted above. There is one with tax and one without. Where does that figure into the equation? I live in the US. And I happen to also live in one of the 5 states without a state sales tax. So the question becomes, am I paying $94 or $112 for this show, should I chose to get it?

On a side note, did you ever finish the show you were going to give those of us attending TexLEM. (You missed a good one by the way. Hope you can do SELEM again this year!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flecom

you are assuming you sell 1 show

if you sell 10 shows thats $100/hr

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Some shows take much more then just 10 hours or a few hours, some shows take up on a week or a few days.
but despite that I have dropped my prices to make it more appealing.
Real sites that are focussed on showsales require some experimenting too and thats what I have been doing and also will be doing for future shows.
Trying to find that threshold :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bradfo69

Im trying to understand your pricing quoted above. There is one with tax and one without. Where does that figure into the equation? I live in the US. And I happen to also live in one of the 5 states without a state sales tax. So the question becomes, am I paying $94 or $112 for this show, should I chose to get it?

On a side note, did you ever finish the show you were going to give those of us attending TexLEM. (You missed a good one by the way. Hope you can do SELEM again this year!)

---

Hi brad, buying a show requires you to pay tax wherever you are, we do this to avoid problems.
The prices are listed on the site, for conversion I suggest to use google's converter or paypal's converter.

The show your talking about (deae lunae) is close to being done finally.
The show would have been send for free to one person to play back at the lem not to everyone though :).
I had to do some arranging, make several shows who were kind exclusive hence nothing popping up for a bit.
Currently working on some little project of mine.
New shows should start popping up, including cue's for lasersoftware next month :)

I seriously hope that I can go again and dependant on how bussiness go's we'll see :)


I also have been experimenting more with frame-by-frame animation the, more 2D side of animation and efficient morphing.

nice show PJ :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by borgqueenx

nice show PJ :)

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Why thank you! :)
I'm also alternating between classic animation as that is less creepy when it comes to these kind of animations and it also allows for more complexity then 3D.
3D is good but the spacing between points is far from perfect.


************edit************
Instead of making a new post and flooding the forum I rather edit this post to add this info.

In a few days EpicNetworkMusic is licensed by everest laser.
Music can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/user/EpicNetworkMusic
Recommended is their arrange of electro music.
************edit************

Quote:

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Originally Posted by masterpj

Hi brad, buying a show requires you to pay tax wherever you are, we do this to avoid problems.
The prices are listed on the site, for conversion I suggest to use google's converter or paypal's converter.

---

I know I said I was done here, but this is flat out incorrect and stealing. People in other countries (at least USA) DO NOT need to pay VAT on show purchases made from your country if electronically delivered to the USA. If you charge it, it is by your choice not by your laws.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polishedball

I know I said I was done here, but this is flat out incorrect and stealing. People in other countries (at least USA) DO NOT need to pay VAT on show purchases made from your country if electronically delivered to the USA. If you charge it, it is by your choice not by your laws.

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Wow stealing is a big word.
I think you can word that much more polite, anyway:
You are aware you can ask that money back at your tax office or whatever its called in your country right?

I did a search for you to help you out on this: http://www.eurovat.com/reclaim.htm
This should help you reclaim the VAT incase you had paid.

****edit****
The reason why VAT is still charged is safety reasons on my end really, reasons and also because the payment system is automated.
The VAT gets handed over to my governement as I would do with any other payment, partually my choice yes.
I am by law not allowed to edit the computer generated invoices let alone remove them, i have to creditize them if they are canceled and more.
In the future we might add that the system checks ur region and then removes VAT if ur in the US.
But for now I strongly advice to make use of your VAT refund option.
****edit****

Ok i'll go with taking money you didn't need to charge then.

Just confused when your setup time took so long to get everything just right. Why you wouldn't have the proper tax thing all worked out as everyother euro based business I have ever dealt with doesn't charge US customers. I guess I was just surprised because everything you do always seems professional and researched, but this instance seemed backward.

Once again just trying to help ya out as others will feel the same way, do you want your customers to feel you don't know correctly? I highly doubt you want to make customers do paperwork and delays to get money back they should have not been charged. Do you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polishedball

Ok i'll go with taking money you didn't need to charge then.

Just confused when your setup time took so long to get everything just right. Why you wouldn't have the proper tax thing all worked out as everyother euro based business I have ever dealt with doesn't charge US customers. I guess I was just surprised because everything you do always seems professional and researched, but this instance seemed backward.

Once again just trying to help ya out as others will feel the same way, do you want your customers to feel you don't know correctly? I highly doubt you want to make customers do paperwork and delays to get money back they should have not been charged. Do you?

---

We dont take your comment as offensive at all.
Our explanation is because unlike a lot of other EU companies we are using an automated system, these systems do not allow human editing because of possible fraud.
The paperwork for a client should not be bad at all, let alone people in the EU.

There are loads of services in the US to ask your VAT back.

As I might have hinted you in my previous post we are adding a detection in the system as soon as we can to get it to remove the VAT automatically when you have filled in United states.
It might need some checking up and it requires some database work.

The system already contains the no VAT prices so its readying up for that.

Good news!
I just discussed this again with my programmers.
As yes currently due to some law regulations we aren't allowed to edit any invoices generated by the system.
But the system is getting the detection and soon too
As we decided to shift this issue to a high priority and it seems like we will have an update to resolve this issue this weekend.
We looked through some papers and we are allowed to remove the VAT that was accidently generated by the system right now.
Currently because the system forces tax on it we remove the VAT manually.
So please bear with us.


*edit*
We will credit the VAT back to you if you have paid.
So please remove 19% from all payments if you live in the US
*edit*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gabe

I really don't think I could manage 10 sales on a single show, seems kinda impossible. Unless its a really great show, but, that would take much longer to produce.

---

so if its a great show you can charge less, but if its not that great you have to charge more since less people will want it?

you do see the slight error in that logic right? ;)

mind you you guys can charge whatever you like for your shows, I just could never see myself paying $100 for any beam show

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flecom

so if its a great show you can charge less, but if its not that great you have to charge more since less people will want it?

you do see the slight error in that logic right? ;)

mind you you guys can charge whatever you like for your shows, I just could never see myself paying $100 for any beam show

---

Well there is good news :)
My graphics show for 2 projectors (requires 2 dacs)
Is 100euro excl VAT (americans dont pay VAT anymore)
Beyond her garden beamshow is 73 euro excl VAT

There is 3D grolsch animation cue available for 15 euro excl vat
and a simple grass cue for 8 euro's (grass comes in time based, refresh based and 25fps ild)

As a matter in fact each purchase comes with a 25fps ild.
Native formats are encrypted but they do load faster on your QM and when you look at it also more fluent because they are not capped to 25fps :)

Anyway just wanted to give a headsup, if u happen to have critisism or a complaint at any point just let me know.