Yet Another Spirograph Generator

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01-24-2013, 18:45
tribble

2 Attachment(s)

Yet Another Spirograph Generator

I've always wanted to build a laser spirograph with more than two motors to see what would happen, but since I got my Spencer projector I wondered if I could just simulate a 4-motor spirograph in software and display the result. So, I'm working on the alpha software pictured below:

Attachment 36665

Right now you can control the RPM and "deflection radius" of each motor. Motors are reversible, just dial in negative RPM. If you set the radius and speed of motors 3 and 4 to zero, you have your classic two-motor spirograph. The third motor adds some interest. The fourth motor really makes a mess. :)

You can dump a single frame to a text file suitable for import in to LaserBoy for processing. Right now the color is hard coded to blue, but you can change that in the text file or in LB.

You can choose keyframes and the software will animate between them to a text file suitable for import into LaserBoy. I use LaserBoy to output ILDA files, but eventually I may just write them directly.

Here is a video (maybe too long) of some sample output. Skip from 5:00 to about 6:10 to see some better patterns.

http://youtu.be/l-eaKHE4fmo

Version 3 (2014-08-05):
01-24-2013, 19:38
Vidal Wolf

Thats great! I would definitely have interest!
01-24-2013, 21:49
james

That's one of the coolest new developments I've see in a long time. I like the approach of emulating rotating mirrors using math. Really nice job! :)
01-25-2013, 00:39
-bart-

Looks neat.

If I may make a suggestion, it might be nice to add a button to generate a random/amplitude rpm ratio. Not completely random, that will create a mess for sure, but at fixed rpm ratios 1:2:5:6 or 1:3:3:4 or 2:-3:4:-5 etc.
If you're out of inspiration, it may take you to places you wouldn't have thought of yourself.
01-25-2013, 11:11
danielbriggs

That looks mega! I like it...

You might be interested this book I picked up a few years back:

The Harmonograph
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg
01-25-2013, 12:24
discothefunkyhippo

I am thoroughly impressed.
01-25-2013, 14:35
mixedgas

Yep, really, really decent stuff.

If Tribble needs to see "Harmonograph," I might set that up.

After looking at the video, well, I dont see him needing it.

Steve's favorite ratio is 3:2 with lots of variable amplitudes and selectable 90' and 270' phase.

I can see Tribble likes that ratio too.

Steve
01-25-2013, 15:09
tribble

Thanks for the feedback and ideas, everyone! Since there's interest, I will work on the ILDA export and polish the interface, then post it here. It's written in Java, so you should be able to run it on any platform.
01-27-2013, 11:44
Displaser

Very nice! Brought back memories :D

Back in the day, I had a "beam chopper" on my first multi-motor projector.

How about a modulation option?

Greg
01-27-2013, 17:33
n2stuff

Very impressive. I need to build a PJ some day or get a POS reke:(
01-29-2013, 15:29
tribble

1 Attachment(s)

Release 1

OK, here's attempt number 1.

Usage Caveats:

This is my first Java GUI, so I'm sure it has some rough edges.

You can change the numbers in the edit boxes, but you have to hit enter to make the change!

Each time you export a frame or animation, "out.txt" and "out.ild" will be OVERWRITTEN.

Known issues:
- Image is inverted on screen vs. in ild file.
- Scaling preview is not exactly the same as output file

Future feature list:
- Ability to set default color
- Color modulation
- Blanking modulation, a la "chopper wheels"
- Better GUI behaviors
- Better cycle detection for preview window

Let me know if there are glaring bugs or errors. Have fun!

I had to attach a .zip because the forum does not know what a Java .jar file is. Unzip the .zip to get the .jar. Double-click on the jar file or use "java -jar spirograph.jar" at your command prompt.

Tribble

Attachment 36717
01-29-2013, 18:17
dchammonds

Good start!

Your approach is interesting... Not sure I get it, but that's probably a good thing. Thanks for sharing!:)
01-30-2013, 03:08
rodman1369

Quote:

I had to attach a .zip because the forum does not know what a Java .jar file is. Unzip the .zip to get the .jar. Double-click on the jar file or use "java -jar spirograph.jar" at your command prompt.

Not working for me...I used 7- zip to unzip the spirograph.zip
got folders called com and META-INF and a file called spirograph (which is an Executable jar file)

I tried Double-clicking on the jar file, but just get an error message: could not find the main class, program will exit.

I'm on a pc
01-30-2013, 04:44
tribble

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodman1369

Not working for me...I used 7- zip to unzip the spirograph.zip
got folders called com and META-INF and a file called spirograph (which is an Executable jar file)

I tried Double-clicking on the jar file, but just get an error message: could not find the main class, program will exit.

I'm on a pc

Hmm, be sure NOT to unzip the .jar. If you get com and META-INF folders 7-zip went too far. I downloaded the jar, unzipped it once with 7zip, and double-clicked the jar and it worked fine.

What version of java do you have installed? I'm on 6; I may need to update to 7.

>java -version
java version "1.6.0_23"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_23-b05)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 19.0-b09, mixed mode)
01-30-2013, 04:46
tribble

GUI navigation tips

It's a pain to get the exact numbers you may want with the mouse; once you click on a slider you can use the arrow keys to manipulate the slider in fine increments.

You can use tab and shift-tab to move between sliders.

Both the control window and the preview window are resizable.
01-30-2013, 08:37
james

Quote:

Originally Posted by tribble

It's a pain to get the exact numbers you may want with the mouse; once you click on a slider you can use the arrow keys to manipulate the slider in fine increments.

You can use tab and shift-tab to move between sliders.

Both the control window and the preview window are resizable.

Wait a minute. You're dismissing the mouse and relying on the keyboard for greater accuracy of user input?

What is this, the Dark Ages?

Some ideas:

a reset button to return everything to a default state.

text input boxes at the ends of each slider so you can type in a number

Also, it would be cool if the up and down arrows switch between the sliders.

The next big step would be some sort of color modulation techniques.

James. :)
01-31-2013, 01:36
rodman1369

Quote:

Originally Posted by tribble

Hmm, be sure NOT to unzip the .jar. If you get com and META-INF folders 7-zip went too far. I downloaded the jar, unzipped it once with 7zip, and double-clicked the jar and it worked fine.

What version of java do you have installed? I'm on 6; I may need to update to 7.

>java -version
java version "1.6.0_23"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_23-b05)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 19.0-b09, mixed mode)

Got it! Thanks Playing with now...
02-03-2013, 17:42
tribble

OK, new version posted in the Original Post. Fixed a few bugs, added a few features.

Bugfixes:
Some RPM combinations would not draw at all. Most of these have been fixed.

New features:
Changed RPM readouts to editable text boxes (per James' suggestion). Much easier to get exactly the RPM you want now.
Keyframe sequences can now be loaded from a text file. This makes animating frames in a tweakable, yet repeatable fashion much easier. A sample csv file is included.
Number of keyframes in the list is now shown in case you lose track.
02-05-2013, 03:28
rodman1369

Unzipped Spirograph-v2
got two files: keyframes and spirograph executable jar file
but when I double-click on spirograph...I get an error message: could not find the main class. Program will exit.
I have java 6 on a Windows 7 machine.
I got the original spirograph to work. Thanks!
02-05-2013, 07:31
tribble

rodman1369, thanks for checking this out... obviously I can't reproduce that error on my end, but I would like to get you running.

What happens if you try running it from the command line?

java -jar spirograph.jar

??

Sorry for the trouble!
02-05-2013, 11:42
rodman1369

No problem...And Thank YOU for taking the time to create and share.
I DID get it to open from command line.
Really cool designs...Most would probably Smoke my laser! ;)
How about a quick and dirty tutorial on how to animate?
I just woke up and made some key frames...but not getting a moving result...something simple I'm sure.
Thanks Again!
Rodney D.
02-05-2013, 12:07
ekeefe

Thanks tribble!

This brings back memories of my second 'projector' (first was a chip of mirror taped to a small speaker).

Here is a kit that is similar to what I built back then:

Ramsey LLS1 Laser Light Show Kit

Thanks again.

ED
02-05-2013, 12:34
rodman1369

Ah...discovered the "out" file. Plays well in Zilda viewer. Looks Way Cool! May have to hook up projector tonight and see how it keeps up.
Thanks Again.:cool:
02-05-2013, 13:58
tribble

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodman1369

How about a quick and dirty tutorial on how to animate?

Sure... basically, you find a pattern you like, hit add key frame, adjust rpm/radius to find another interesting pattern, and do that at least twice. The 'tweens' value is how many frames will be created between the last key frame and the key frame you're adding. Each key frame remembers its own tweens value. The points/frame setting determines how many points will be in each frame created. To get a better idea of what the frame will look like, use the 'draw first N' mode with N set to the number of points in each frame. Adjust the 'resolution' to adjust how much distance the motors move before another sample is taken. lower numbers sample more often and slow your scanners down, but draw more slowly. I like between 1 and 5ms, depending on the RPMs.

If there's no difference in motor rpm or diameter between two keyframes, nothing will change and you'll get a 'static' pattern, except when the pattern is so complex it can't be completely draw before your persistence of vision wears off and it looks like the pattern is moving. That's the magical balance of math and art in the spirograph. :)

If you create a keyframes file, you can press the load button to load the keyframes from the file. This is an easy way to get a long list of repeatable frames while making adjustments to only some of them.

Show us what you come up with! :)
02-05-2013, 14:10
james

If you are interested in adding color support, there are some neat ways to do that based on the coordinate system itself.

You can span a palette of colors across X or Y. You can also span a palette radially, as a function of the distance from the center of space to the edge, or angularly as a function of rotation around the center of space.

You can also color the vertices in the same order as a provided palette.

The only problem I see with this is that your projector can only do 7 color combinations (8 if you count black) and there are many limitations in most commonly available ILDA readers with reading an ILDA format 2 palette.

Again, Nice work! :)

James.
02-05-2013, 14:57
tribble

Thanks, James!

I have added rudimentary color support on a "keyframe" basis to keep things from getting too monotonous. You can specify a palette index value for a keyframe, and that color will be used when tweening towards that keyframe. I've seen the radial and time-based palette manipulations in LB, and on my projector, they don't produce pretty pictures due to the TTL nature of the unit. It's easy enough to pull the files in to LB and do palette manipulations there; that's at least one possibility for folks looking for better color support sooner than I get to it.

I'm still trying to figure out what the GUI should look like for color support. It's starting to get crowded. I need to read up on Java layout managers. :(
02-10-2013, 22:42
rodman1369

Wow! I must say Wow! Works great with my reke 500rgb and Quickshow! Projecting on my ceiling tonite during the Grammys. Keep up the great work! :worship:
02-13-2013, 04:18
tribble

Great, I'm glad it's working out for you! Thanks for the feedback. I have some additions planned... animated preview option so you can kinda see where the cycle is going to go. Useful for those more complex settings. Maybe this weekend.
02-13-2013, 12:08
rodman1369

Could you possibly do a more beginner's level step-by-step....I get some cool animations...but Your' video looks Way cooler! Transitions not as good in mine...Had some cool effects...But one started my projector whirring...(I deleted that one) ;)
02-13-2013, 12:12
james

You might want to include some sanity checking for the sake of scanners.

Take a look at the maximum distance you are getting between vertices.

James. :)
02-13-2013, 15:46
tribble

rodman, I am not sure I could reproduce that video today if I tried! It was an early version of the spirograph, and I may have run the output through LaserBoy for 'optimization.' Doing that will drastically change the output, maybe in a cool way, and maybe not! But if you set the laserboy max distance to something reasonable and optimize the frame set, it should keep your scanners happy.

What I do is this:

First, set resolution to 1ms. I think I will make this the default in the future.

Second, keep your motor speeds +/- 1500 RPM or so.

Then, decide how fast-changing you want the resulting show to be. The more settings you change between two keyframes, the more rapid the change is going to when projected. You can control the speed of the changes by adjusting the tweens. Too many tweens, things get boring. Too few, things fly by without any chance to see them. I have been playing with changing one or two motor speeds at a time, and two is pretty good.

I have been setting points per frame to 2000. I adjust tweens based on the delta between RPMs in adjacent keyframes such that I get maybe a 2RPM per tween shift. That means if keyframe one has M1 RPM of 500, and keyframe two has M1 RPM of 400, I might use 50 tweens. Adjust to your liking.

Sometimes you can adjust the size as well; I have not played with that as much. There are many degrees of freedom and I have not tried them all, not even close!

I find it easiest to set up a keyframe file in excel and use it to keep things orderly. You can use the random function to generate random numbers, and you can use formulas to automatically generate the tweens to your preferred rate. Just save as CSV, import, and preview in ZILDA or Quickshow or whatever.

Please be careful with your equipment! I do not have a 'real' projector, nor Pangolin anything, nor LSX, nor Mamba, nor iShow. Start with SMALL projection angles the first time you run through a generated file with experimental settings.

GENERAL DISCLAIMER: I disclaim all liability for anyone generating a bizarre file and somehow damaging their equipment! I think no matter how hard I try to prevent that, someone will find a way to get their setup to do something insane and blame me; therefore, I make NO WARRANTY that the output of the spirograph generator will NOT break your scanners! That said, I have a lot of fun with it and you can too. :)

Spiro on,
tribble
02-13-2013, 15:49
tribble

Here are some nifty patterns I've found so far:

Code:

M1Rpm M2RPM M3RPM M4RPM M1rad M2rad M3Rad M4Rad Res -91 -815 634 0 72 67 100 0 1 -91 -1540 634 0 72 67 100 0 1 -200 150 501 -201 100 100 100 100 1

Use almost-stable patterns in N motors and then widely vary an additional motor to find more cool patterns!
02-13-2013, 21:32
rodman1369

spiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by tribble

Here are some nifty patterns I've found so far:

Code:

M1Rpm M2RPM M3RPM M4RPM M1rad M2rad M3Rad M4Rad Res -91 -815 634 0 72 67 100 0 1 -91 -1540 634 0 72 67 100 0 1 -200 150 501 -201 100 100 100 100 1

Use almost-stable patterns in N motors and then widely vary an additional motor to find more cool patterns!

Darn it! Now I want to leave work early and go play!!!
But my wife works nights too and wouldn't understand. ;(

Soon!!!! :)
03-25-2013, 16:57
AnAnonymousParty

1 Attachment(s)

I thought I was the only one interested in this kind of stuff. I've been working on similar software, but a different model that reflects the analog circuitry I've been building for my own projector. Looks something like:

Attachment 37553
03-27-2013, 09:16
cfavreau

Awesome! I have one that I have been finishing up (been finishing up for 4 versions :)

Any chance we get to play with it?

Thanks!
03-27-2013, 12:12
dsli_jon

Very nice... :cool: Thanks for sharing these..

..un-related to these fine-programs, (..not 'spamming' the thread :) but.. here's a really-simple but fun online one, to escape from werk / kids to learn-from, etc..
http://www.laserium.com/cycloid/ Programming by R. Hipschman..
njoy...
j
03-27-2013, 12:47
cfavreau

Neato! Thanks for pointing that out. Had to update my Java because of it...
03-27-2013, 15:36
james

dchammonds (Dean) of this forum did some cool math generated stuff a while ago....

http://laserboy.org/forum/index.php?board=9.0

James. :)
05-10-2013, 03:00
Cookie Cutter

Good stuff Tribble, having a few problems like there is always a "motor" running if i set all to 0 by typing there is nothing but if i set a 1 in M1 I should get a circle but it is mixing with something else, also the slider doesn't update to the new number correctly.
Another nice addition would be able to use the mouse scroll wheel to change the figures (that should be also highlighted).
Floating point numbers would be good too to get those really hard to find harmonics.
I also built one of these with 4 motors in the early 80's with an old surplus card reader HeNe laser and reveled at that 4th dimension where you could turn that rotating globe on its side and go through the middle.
All in all its a nice piece of show software on its own, without 50k+ galvos though the motors/mirrors method still wins hands down for a high resolution Spirograph.
Don't stop now though this is still going somewhere. :)
01-14-2014, 16:23
BlueFang

I see that this is a rather old thread, however I too find this project extremely fascinating - not only because of how cool Spirographs are, but also because this is a Java app that works perfectly on OS X, and that is quite rare in the Laser geek world.

Anyway, any progress made with the color version? Any chance of making this an open source project and throwing the source on GitHub? I am a rather experienced developer (with tons of GUI experience) and would love to build this out further like adding support for a turtle like graphics system (L-system), so things like Hilbert Curves and other fractal images would be possible.
01-14-2014, 16:39
colouredmirrorball

I don't want to thread jack but... here's another java (Processing) based tool that is known to compile on OSX (unfortunately Processing only allows you to compile on the system you currently own so I can't compile for OSX myself) http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...Ilda-view-tool
This is open source so feel free to have a look. In the future, something like a proper abstract generator is certainly possible, but that's for after this exam period (unless you can figure out my code and add it yourself - beginning programmer here as well).

Now back to awesome spirographs!
01-14-2014, 17:56
BlueFang

Wow - never heard of Processing before now, but what I quickly read about it seems pretty cool. Looks like it has an abstraction layer on top of OpenGL and allows standard java source as well. Neat. I'll take a look at what you've done so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by colouredmirrorball

I don't want to thread jack but... here's another java (Processing) based tool that is known to compile on OSX (unfortunately Processing only allows you to compile on the system you currently own so I can't compile for OSX myself) http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...Ilda-view-tool
This is open source so feel free to have a look. In the future, something like a proper abstract generator is certainly possible, but that's for after this exam period (unless you can figure out my code and add it yourself - beginning programmer here as well).

Now back to awesome spirographs!
01-14-2014, 18:04
colouredmirrorball

Yes, this makes it a great tool for visual work. It has the same functionability of Java but is easier to use. Drawing a line is as easy as "line(x1, y1, z1, x2, y2, z2);". Drawing a point is as easy as "point(x, y, z);". Do this over an array of points you have read from an ilda file... and you have my program :P
08-05-2014, 16:27
tribble

I revisited this project and recalled that I had made some tweaks that I had not posted back here. So, I've just posted the latest version. It's been a while since I worked on this in depth, but I believe one of the bigger additions was the live preview of how the shape is going to change over time. It's not perfect, but it gives one an idea of what's going to happen.
08-05-2014, 16:28
tribble

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueFang

I see that this is a rather old thread, however I too find this project extremely fascinating - not only because of how cool Spirographs are, but also because this is a Java app that works perfectly on OS X, and that is quite rare in the Laser geek world.

Anyway, any progress made with the color version? Any chance of making this an open source project and throwing the source on GitHub? I am a rather experienced developer (with tons of GUI experience) and would love to build this out further like adding support for a turtle like graphics system (L-system), so things like Hilbert Curves and other fractal images would be possible.

Thanks for the MacOS shout out! Glad it works. It's one of the reasons I wrote this in Java to begin with.

I'm not averse to posting this somewhere, maybe GPL3, but I have no experience with GitHub.
08-05-2014, 18:10
sugeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by tribble

Thanks for the MacOS shout out! Glad it works. It's one of the reasons I wrote this in Java to begin with.

I'm not averse to posting this somewhere, maybe GPL3, but I have no experience with GitHub.

https://github.com github is a source control and revision tracking website and tool. There are other hosts for git but GitHub is popular for a lot of open source projects. The revision tracking alone is nice and being able to branch off of a. Code base for different revisions without modifying the release branch.

Adam
08-06-2014, 14:38
hakzaw1

For those DIYing an 'olde school' Spiro I found the best switches posssile-
DPDT with off in the center- NO PLASTIC ( those are dirt cheap and worth dirt)

These are no longer being made in the USA- ( thanks china!)

they have a soft black rubber 'cover' over the switch 'lever' that makes it water-resistant/(maybe water proof)- it can be removed by using the collar if you prefer seeing metal-

I am asking 4$ each plus actual cost to ship-
4 pcs for $12-- built to last- pics will come soon in a thread at BS&T--
I am bringing 30 or so with me to SELEM-- having center off allows me to use one less switch per motor-- I doubt you can find any better than these--REAL bakelite!!
Made in USA!!

hak
@Rod- there are 4 of these already in your box