Analog Console

Hi all, thought I'd share some pics of a console I picked up yesterday. This console has the guts of the one I'm trying to bring back to life. It's going to be a huge help to have a working one here! This is completely just an X/Y console, no color modulation at all, which is one of the things I need to work on for the new console. Anyway, I just got back from vacation and have a ton of things to do, really anxious to get this hooked up and see the output though! The cool part about this is I can create a really nice abstract in pangolin, output it to this console to make it even more complex!

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/...6/DSC03321.jpg

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/...6/DSC03322.jpg

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/...6/DSC03323.jpg

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/...6/DSC03324.jpg

Hey David,
Any Idea who made that beast?
M...

Are those cards a bunch of Aries analog synth modules?

where's the video???!!

sheesh.

;)

Sweet...

Old School Rules!!!

Greg

Nope, not Aries, these were made by an old light show company around 30 years ago!

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where's the video???!!

sheesh.

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LOL!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtZYQ7h4in4

very cool
..............

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Originally Posted by DZ

Nope, not Aries, these were made by an old light show company around 30 years ago!



LOL!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtZYQ7h4in4

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLSVMV45feM

*retardo

Some more console fun! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP-PjcMdbX0

Is that Laser Systems Development Corp model P-4?

If so, I have a manual and schematics for it.

If never seen an actual unit, but based on the controls names and layout, compared to the schematics I'm looking at . . .

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Originally Posted by AnAnonymousParty

Is that Laser Systems Development Corp model P-4?

If so, I have a manual and schematics for it.

If never seen an actual unit, but based on the controls names and layout, compared to the schematics I'm looking at . . .

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Sorta, the core of the console is a modified P4, the panel is a custom job. I've not seen an original P4 either, however I do have a pic of one around here somewhere. I have the schematics, but a manual would be awesome, any way I could get a copy or borrow it from you?

Speaking of the schematics...*retardo

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Originally Posted by DZ

Speaking of the schematics...*retardo

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Tease


15char1515

You can make one for yourself with off the shelf modular synth modules. www.oakleysound.com I built a full "moog type" modular from these modules. Tried them on laser and the work well but they output 10v p-p so you have to do a little work setting the output right. I happen to have 8 osc so I was able to dedicate some to color as well as x/y. It was fun but what you get in software these days is just as good or better and much smaller. It however was an enjoyable evening of tinkering. If you ever get a chance to play with digisynth, it is very similar to a console.

The documentation I have is old, of course. I'll try to scan them this weekend and see how they turn out.

zip file containing scanned doc & schematics attached. Hope it helps.

Thanks for taking the time to scan the manual, looking forward to reading thru it. I'll probably re-type the manual to clean it up a bit and will send you a copy back.

One step closer! I managed to get one of the VCQO's wired up and I'm getting a very nice sine/cosine out of it! The bottom pic shows an original VCQO board along with the new, much smaller layout of a VCQO.

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Originally Posted by DZ

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Thanks for the laser porn! *retardo.

Very nice. Can't wait to see the finished product!

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Originally Posted by absolom7691

Thanks for the laser porn! *retardo.

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LOL! More laser porn!

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Abstracts are completely analog, color modulation via pangolin.

i shouldn't even have to ask this..... WHERE IS THE VIDEO??

;)

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Originally Posted by DZ

LOL! More laser porn!

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Abstracts are completely analog, color modulation via pangolin.

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echo

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Originally Posted by swamidog

i shouldn't even have to ask this..... WHERE IS THE VIDEO??

;)

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Glad to see you making progress on this :)

Very cool DZ, look forward to seeing it at SELEM if you can bring it!

That is a great looking board. How many layer?

Did you build in color mod and chop?

chad

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Originally Posted by swamidog

i shouldn't even have to ask this..... WHERE IS THE VIDEO??

;)

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LOL! Patience!

Thanks for the compliments guys!

Chad, amazingly that entire board has 1 function; X/Y and that's it! I did add a pin header to connect up another board to handle color mod, but that will be a good bit down the road. I knew this project was going to be a huge undertaking, really gives me a whole new level of respect for the folks that originally designed this system.

mo progress! I setup the pots similar to the original design, made just a few changes. Drilled it into plexiglass just for testing, the plexiglass is sized for a 19" rack and the height of the layout is currently around 8U. Just need to wire it all up to make sure it works as designed and then send of an order to Front Panel Express!

http://www.photonlexicon.com/gallery...2/IMG_0865.JPG

Thats gonna be some 'sexy plexi! *warn

Very nice work!

That is really awesome. I'm so needing one of those. All my guitars are going to have pick guards with empty holes in them where the pots used to be....;)

Have you decided on an industrial design aesthetic for the front panel yet? I've always loved the look of ARP, Data General, and Digital's PDP series panel designs. Food for thought! :p

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that arp brings back memories. we had one (and a 3 box moog) in the emu lab i proctored at university.

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Originally Posted by CountFunkula

Have you decided on an industrial design aesthetic for the front panel yet? I've always loved the look of ARP, Data General, and Digital's PDP series panel designs. Food for thought! :p

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That ARP is a very cool looking design! I plan on keeping this somewhat close to the original. Just dug up a pic:


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Originally Posted by DZ

That ARP is a very cool looking design! I plan on keeping this somewhat close to the original. Just dug up a pic:


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I know where you're coming from and completely understand why you'd want to do that.

...That being said, PLEASE tell me you're keeping I DEMAND that you keep wood cheeks as part of the design!!!*retardo

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Originally Posted by CountFunkula

...That being said, PLEASE tell me you're keeping I DEMAND that you keep wood cheeks as part of the design!!!*retardo

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Ha! I'll have to build at least one with the wood sides, that would be very cool!

I've made a ton of progress over the past several days, just have some fine tuning to do, some clean up and figure out if I need to make any changes to the layout before I design the panel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw6Rpb0KT1o

Awesome! That's a clean rotator, too! *warn

That is way cool DZ. <puts on to-do list>

Yummy analog goodness! Can't wait to see the finished unit. In the mean time, keep the vids and pics coming!

PS, that test frame flipping around reminds me of the Phantom Zone :p

Not to sidetrack the convo but I am a modular synth enthusiast myself. So after all this I'm looking at my stacks of oscillators wondering how to I patch these things into my projector now. Any tips on where I need to start looking? All told I have something like 16 oscillators and a few dozen curve generators (including lfo's, slew gens, followers, the works). Analog sequencers, time generators, quantizers, you name it.

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Originally Posted by Randomseed

Not to sidetrack the convo but I am a modular synth enthusiast myself. So after all this I'm looking at my stacks of oscillators wondering how to I patch these things into my projector now. Any tips on where I need to start looking? All told I have something like 16 oscillators and a few dozen curve generators (including lfo's, slew gens, followers, the works). Analog sequencers, time generators, quantizers, you name it.

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I've just bought a Korg monotron delay and love it. Have similar ideas to you Randomseed, so would be interested to follow a thread on the matter. Love the idea of synths linked to lasers!

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Originally Posted by Galvonaut

I've just bought a Korg monotron delay and love it. Have similar ideas to you Randomseed, so would be interested to follow a thread on the matter. Love the idea of synths linked to lasers!

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Be sure to test on a vector scope before connecting scanners as you can kill them pretty quick using standard synths.

Thanks for the warning. I was considering using some audio as an input variable in LSX (once I have it and learn to use it).

I also wouldn't go above 1500hz either. You don't want to fry your galvos.

I think I can add a bit here. been experimenting along those lines a few years ago.. First, spot on about the frequency. About 1.5K is a good upper limit. 1K for WideMoves.Maybe 3 for CT scanners, but watch the scan angle, drop right back on speed before going wide. With scanners with spindly shafts like WideMoves, you get early warning of excess, in rough redraws, erratic broadening of scanned line. I'm not sure what warning you get with good scanners like CT6215, maybe not a lot, before risk of harm.

One thing a synthesiser might seem to have in favour is bandwidth limiting, but it's at way too high a frequency to be helpful here. I don't even know exactly how it works yet (but will, I need to for my synthesiser coding). You might use the filter of a synth, but the scanned line weight will likely be affected noticeably, and response may suffer too. Best idea is a slew rate 'generator' if the synth has one. Simple linear slew rate is a good protection for many things that don't like hard transitions. You may be able to add one based on an op-amp on the output of the synth. Some monosynths have slew rate generators on their LFO's, and are good candidates for analog scan control. Doeper's modules are especially worth a look. As is his 'Pocket Electronics' if you're using MIDI and designing your own control deck.

PS. Galvonaut, I thought I was the only Brit here to regularly keep these insane hours. :)

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Originally Posted by absolom7691

I also wouldn't go above 1500hz either. You don't want to fry your galvos.

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If you can hear your galvos "screaming", listen to what they're telling you *retardo

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Originally Posted by polishedball

Be sure to test on a vector scope before connecting scanners as you can kill them pretty quick using standard synths.

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Thanks, I'll have in invest in a scope or two I think.

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Originally Posted by The_Doctor

I think I can add a bit here. been experimenting along those lines a few years ago.. First, spot on about the frequency. About 1.5K is a good upper limit. 1K for WideMoves.Maybe 3 for CT scanners, but watch the scan angle, drop right back on speed before going wide. With scanners with spindly shafts like WideMoves, you get early warning of excess, in rough redraws, erratic broadening of scanned line. I'm not sure what warning you get with good scanners like CT6215, maybe not a lot, before risk of harm.

One thing a synthesiser might seem to have in favour is bandwidth limiting, but it's at way too high a frequency to be helpful here. I don't even know exactly how it works yet (but will, I need to for my synthesiser coding). You might use the filter of a synth, but the scanned line weight will likely be affected noticeably, and response may suffer too. Best idea is a slew rate 'generator' if the synth has one. Simple linear slew rate is a good protection for many things that don't like hard transitions. You may be able to add one based on an op-amp on the output of the synth. Some monosynths have slew rate generators on their LFO's, and are good candidates for analog scan control. Doeper's modules are especially worth a look. As is his 'Pocket Electronics' if you're using MIDI and designing your own control deck.

PS. Galvonaut, I thought I was the only Brit here to regularly keep these insane hours. :)

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I might have to practice on some cheap scanners! The bass is incredible on the Montron Delay, especially when you crank the VCF cut-off right down with plenty of delay, so should get some interesting outputs. I have a huge amount to learn about the intricacies of galvanometer operation before I experiment with this but it's definitely one for a rainy day/week/winter.

re. insane hours, I've had chronic/neuropathic pain for quite a while and often need meds to sleep and as I like lasers/rum/debauchery of an evening, often fail to take meds early enough!

Ah, that makes sense. Anyway, whoever said the 'normal' life was the best use of time? >:) It's actually pretty lousy for most things, and apparently archeologists are debunking a lot of notions about how people lived, or were 'supposed' to live...

To topic... Can't beat a good analog synth for solid broadband sound easily had ('FM' will definitely get you there but it's hard work without descovering how first). The two main tricks you're using to get that big sound might be a major hazard to scanners though. Resonance, and delay. With resonance up, the filter will VERY easily put the scanners at instant risk of going the way of the Norwegian Blue. As in VOOM, with or without the 50,000 volts. Keep it right down when scanning, that way it will keep it safe, the filter will help then instead of threatening harm. Likewise the delay can reinforce certain frequencies hugely, and it's very hard to predict what, when and how much, because much of the time the relations of the numbers will be irrational, so keep the feedback low on the delay. Very low, even, but cautious exploration of delay is well worth a go. Same goes for feedback on effects not so obviously related to dela (and many are!), like modulated flanging, which with high feedback can make stunning sounds even with only a tiny noise signal as input to it, but is a scanner killer for sure, because almost explosive changes in signal strength can happen at arbitrary swept frequencies. One fast way to get ideas for safe sounds might be to get some ILDA frames and standard beam scans rendered as waves, and listen to those.. Once you sense the character required, exploring a synth might get rewarding fast.

EDIT:
Try a program called GoldWave. I think it's free, or at least cheap, and has an oscilloscope screen window. At the speeds you'll need, that will work well. What it probably doesn't do is let you put two channels into X and Y at same time, and that's the best use of all for a scope and a synth with scanning in mind.

Yes, I've noticed this thing can self-oscillate pretty effectively too but it is quite easy to set the resonance to a level where the feedback is stable. As you say, it can be very unpredictable and a lot of my time is spent tweaking settings to keep a stable and enjoyable sound. Even then, a frequency can emerge seemingly from nowhere, which I am sure would hammer a set of scanners!

Great idea regarding the ILDA paterns as waves. It might save me a few sets of scanners!

Now I want to know what a quadrature sine generator would 'look like'.
I'm guessing its beautiful.

Seriously guys how are you actually interfacing between the modular and the ilda connection?

Sounds like you'll get it. Your description sounds like you're listening in the right way. Sounds like you've noticed how a resonance turned low can still hit hard if you tickle it with a a frequency closely related (Natural harmonic series, integer relations..) Which reminds me, you may get some fun pout of trying tuning scales, beating between oscillators. Specially if you can get pure tunings. Most synths can't though, will likely all be equal temperament. An FM synth will get you pure tunings, but only with sine waves unless you get into it a bit. Sine waves are good though, I've been considering that FM might be the basis for a great scan controller because with level scaling in sinewave modulation it can be inherently bandwidth limiting, so the potential exists for complex scan control safely even without a filter of any kind. Whether it actually looks any good I have no idea. :) Yet. I might try this if the urge gets strong enough.

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Originally Posted by Randomseed

Now I want to know what a quadrature sine generator would 'look like'.
I'm guessing its beautiful.

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Lissajous figures. :) Actually: A circle. But start gently detuning them...

About the ILDA, can't answer for others, my experiments were limited to plotting things in PCM wave data and focussing on sample rate, dwell time, etc. All put out of a DC coupled sound card straight to differential analog input on a driver board.