so this new guy wants a rgb

complete newb here, first post and everything haha. however i have been frequenting (and i mean pulling all-nighters 3 or more times a week) these forums and even the chat page and i cant begin to say thank you to everything ive learned from you guys. so it goes, i want a rgb projector, semi tight budget of 1500. maybe more, hopefully less (i know, you pay for quality). i am from ny, usa. and originally i was going to just buy china junk just to play with. Thanks to you guys i now will not be doing that as i have learned that safety also plays a huge role for a laserist. i need you to know that i will mostly be doing this in the privacy of my home, but i want the option to get better and use what i purchase in a public setting. this means i am looking for a variance qualifying laser. ideally i am looking for 1w of power. i am also more interested in beam shows, but decent animation would be a plus.

with that being said i have already been turned on to certain companies by users such as swamidog, cnb(?), and picasso(who have also been a huge help in explaining the basics in our live chats.)

so far i have been tossing and turning over indecision between

goldenstarlasers
eightonlight
x-laser(american based and US variance)

and i even found this company that i havent read anything about in these forums

unitedlaser.net

so, having finally introduced myself and my needs and wants, i will be loving your feedback.

-GARRETT:peace:

Welcome to Photonlexicon! There is talk of another group buy from Omar for the Pluto or new Leo projectors. Watch the forum. Jump on it without hesitation if and when it happens! Hard to beat the quality and bang for the buck.

i have heard good things. but a US variance?

Good point, if you're planning on going into business in public. US X-Laser seems to have a good thing going with the streamline variances, etc. Better figure on double the cost for a varianced projector, though.

just got a pm from a rep from a company called Able. seems strange they wouldnt just comment publically. leading me to question the legitimate of their company. haha i dont want another x-laser.cn email. horrible.

to the best of my knowledge able lasers is legit and has proper certifications.

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Originally Posted by DSOTM1973

just got a pm from a rep from a company called Able. seems strange they wouldnt just comment publically. leading me to question the legitimate of their company. haha i dont want another x-laser.cn email. horrible.

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Hello Sir, this is Crystal from ABLE laer just now sent you a email about FDA documents and catalogue, did you get it?
ABLE is a legal and trustworthy company!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DSOTM1973

just got a pm from a rep from a company called Able. seems strange they wouldnt just comment publically. leading me to question the legitimate of their company. haha i dont want another x-laser.cn email. horrible.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by yeping123

Hello Sir, this is Crystal from ABLE laer just now sent you a email about FDA documents and catalogue, did you get it?
ABLE is a legal and trustworthy company!!!

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awesome! emailed back

Be careful where you buy from if you look towards X-Laser.

There are 2 X-Lasers - the US company with variances, and an unrelated Chinese company who I understand are without but who's branding looks similar. Getting the Chinese one would be a mistake if you need to be varianced.

Welcome to PL. It's a wild ride. Ok, the best choice you can make is X-Laser. You're going to pay a little more but, in the end, it's your best choice.

Now, that being said, in second place for varianced projectors sounds like Able. There is a whole thread devoted to someone's research and subsequent purchase and review of one of their units.

There are some other manufacturers of US varianced projectors but, they're simply far too expensive in general, for the home basement hobbyist to warrant owning. Until you take them out...

Now... moving on to the ones not legal for use in the US for public compensated display would be Lightspace and yes, there sounds like a possible Pluto group buy may occur again. Probably one of the nicest, non-USA varianced projector deals for the money going. And next, based on members reviews would be Goldenstar. The big difference between Lightspace and Goldenstar from what I've seen is their overall product line and quality of projector. In my opinion, Lightspace makes a better quality projector. That's not to say Goldenstar is bad... just not as good but, they will customize a little more for you than Lightspace. Plus Goldenstar carries a lot more of the individual parts that the home builder needs versus Lightspace.

I'm reposting something I typed in another thread for another new person:

Welcome to PL. Kiss ANY hope of financial solvency goodbye and be prepared for the ride of your life. Seriously. This is NOT an inexpensive endeavour. If I knew then what I know now, I would have spent my money going to every scheduled LEM (Laser Enthusiest Meeting) around the world that they hold on here and enjoyed the "fix" of the pretty lights on someone elses dime. And have spent time with a LOT of facinating, funny and intelligent people in the process.

Minimal kidding aside, the most important thing you can do before removing the wallet from your back pocket is research, research, research. Talk to people, read, and try to go see some gear before plunging into the abyss. Things you buy for $1,000 today will be worth $200 a year from now and you need to be able to accept that.

You are in the USA so, as had been mentioned, things are a little different here than the rest of the "free world". (Wait a minute... wasn't that supposed to be US???) Get information on the rules and regulations governing the use of lasers as well. If it's something you want to pursue for public performance than you're going to get into things like "variances" and legal equipment. As has been mentioned, X-Laser is going to be tops on your list to begin looking at. Check out their web site. Watch their videos. There are not a plethora of sources for which you seek. Yes, there are other companies that build and sell legal varianced equipment and can help you along the way (such as dsli_jon above) or CT Lasers and some others (many with stratosphere pricing) but, X-Laser has really perfected things for the "just getting into the hobby" individuals, and can continue to help with more sophisticated things as you grow. (Be sure you're looking at X-Laser USA in Laurel, MD and not X-Laser in China - there is NO relation.)

I'll qualify the above by saying I don't work for X-Laser and don't own any X-Laser gear... yet. (I did things perhaps the wrong way.) But, I know the people (they're members on the forum). I've been to their operation and they too have visted my facility. They're worth a look and you won't go "wrong".

There are an awful lot of people here who are on the opposite spectrum who dabble in the hobby for their own enjoyment in the privacy of their own home. They like to build their own toys, tear them down and re-build them again. They'll measure and test and measure and test to find the near perfect piece of glass or, design the most efficient circuit. They like creating things with CNC machines, blobs of solder, and old video game equipment so they can build a better, more satisfying mousetrap. I don't know if you're handy with tools or electronics but there is an awful lot of that here that goes on as well. And for that, the whole variance thing doesn't really apply. It really boils down to your aspirations.

Anyway... welcome aboard. It's a wild ride!

You have been sufficiently warned. :)

Welcome to never having money again.
I'm ordering two more lasers from ABLE as soon as I get to the bank :)
Not but good stuff from them.
But nothing for $1500.
For that price I would recommend the lasertainment's x750 or x1500 (these are US varianced).
I have 4 of them and they have never had an issue.

Hey 'DSOTM' (nice.. :)

Yes, Welcome to PL.. See you are in NY? I live in CA, but we have a NY office / hub, and am up there a few times a year, and we're not to far from ya (Rottenchester ;) ..but I'll chat with ya about that / NYS in yer 'other' thread.. :cool:

..First, kudos to ya for 'doin it right' (at least, once you 'go commercial'..) and getting Varianced, etc.. This place is a *great* resource, for 'learning the ropes'.. Here's a full-bore in-house 'repository' of all the 'Regs', etc - http://www.photonlexicon.com/wiki/in...dies_in_the_US ..and this One, simple PDF will give you a 'good overview', for now, of the 'whys & wherefores'.. http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Medical.../UCM119257.pdf ..and, a more-specific 'overview' of the Regs, here: http://www.fda.gov/Radiation-Emittin.../ucm118907.htm - This bit of 'homework' will give you a good dose of safety-edu, w/O having to swim-thru ALL the regs, etc, for now.. :cool:

..Second, +1 to what Brad said, for-reasons of 'support' ..X-Laser (USA) has got a pretty well-oiled machine going.. But, yes, *avoid* the Chi-cloners "X-Laser HK" like the back end of a pack-mule after visiting a chili-cookoff.. (..their CRAP STINKS.. :) ..and are non-compliant, yada yada.. Anyhoo..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bradfo69

.....ones not legal for use in the US for public compensated display would be Lightspace..

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...looking into what might be done about this.. :cool: (..unless someone already is.. waiting to hear..) Reason-being, Yes, these guys (Lightspace) also make a very-nice PJ, for the bux..

..Anyhoo, tty over in the 'Albany..' thread.. :cool:
ciao
j

i have emailed lasertainment and im waiting for a response. one benefit seems to be that they are from nyc, a short hop, skip, and jump from me. itd be great to actually go down there and meet with someone hopefully. if this is the case, it will be a no brainer where ill get a varianced laser from. (try before i buy? *fingers crossed*) if thats not the case then ill still continue my research (and saving $ for that matter, i mean at this rate, the longer i research the better a laser i can afford, win-win). One question... based on a 1 w laser, what would be the best color balance. i understand that nm is almost as important as mws, and then i get lost in the math looking equations of diversion and aperature (something like the closer those numbers are, the better? mrad definition?). ive been recommended a 637red over others from a few salespeople, and im confused when i notice red being a very low mw while blue is almost 2/3 the power of 1w. i understand green is the easiest to see correct? so a lower mw is better if its balance with blue being second highest and red being highest. sorry if im not making sense, can you tell im confused?

Well now that you asked that question there will be multiple responses to that.. Its a personal preference (especially from what I learned when I asked this a while ago)

well guys. i decided to go through ABLE and right now they are cooking up a 3w rgb for me! super excited!

do you already have your variance ? if not you can not legally buy (or i should say take possession of ) a class IV laser system and if able ships it out to you before you have your variance then and they and you are breaking the law

generally a variance takes 30 to 90 days or so to get approved

Well I've been trying to figure out how to go about that but haven't found the information. Or maybe I missed something, could you direct me?

here is info on the regs
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/script...cfm?fr=1040.10

and this is the variance app
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/aboutfd.../ucm080788.pdf

and here is initial show report that must accompany the variance application
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutFD.../UCM081634.pdf

and here is the annual report that needs to be submitted end of August
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/aboutfd.../ucm081603.pdf

DSOTM,

Have you looked into the heightened requirements for LSO within NY? Hope you're good at math and have a good memory.

To legally receive the projector(s) you can submit the variance app and initial show app stating your intent to use ABLE's currently varianced product. That should get you clear of the FDA.

no you are not allowed to ship until you get an approval from the cdrh call woody or dale and ask them that question

think about it this way what happens if the equipment was shipped and the variance was denied for any reason then you are illegally in possession of a class IV laser product

as for NYS thats whole different story if DTSOM intends to use this gear in NYS then yes there is a whole bunch of other stuff that needs to be done but if its for out of state use it can be stored in NY with out registering it but that mean the unit must be disabled is some way while in NYS (time of storage exception) and never tested even in your own shop while in NY

but if you need some help getting your Class B mobile cert and info on registration i can put you in touch with the gentleman who runs a course on NYS code rule 50
the class is sorta mandatory to even take the test (or intern for a class b op for 1 year)

its relay not that hard to pass if you study the class material and the teacher is great and will work with you till you got it down and can pass a few practice exams
its a little expensive i want to say $1500-$2000 depending on class size (normally about 3-5) and you may need to wait till a few students sign up or it will cost even more but he will do 1 on 1

John

Good to know, however, I had been reading places that unless I use the projector in public I do not need variance.

According to the letter of the law, Able should not be able to sell you a certified projector until you have obtained your laser light show variance from the CDRH.

You are correct that if you use the projector in the privacy of your own home (and more importantly, no commerce is involved), that you do not need a variance. However, certified laser manufacturers are only supposed to sell projectors to varianced laserists. That being said, it happens all the time that they don't check. :rolleyes:

Also, this post only addresses the federal requirements. As VJ AIWAZ mentioned above, there is also New York State law that you need to be mindful of. I'm not qualified to comment on that, so I will defer to VJ AIWAZ, DSLI-jon, and others on that issue.

I've heard good things about Able's projectors, but I've never seen one in person. When you get it, please post pictures here so we can drool over it. *retardo

As for getting your variance, take a look at the links VJ AIWAZ posted. That will get you started. :)

Adam

ok, so after spending awhile reading through those forms, i was just wondering if they were still good, as the forms seemed to expire in 2013. also heres another question, i do not have a buisness or company as of now so is there a way to just variance myself?

I believe the forms should still be fine. I don't think they would kick them back for being on a form that's out dated by a few months. I also think you want to come up with some form of company name it put on it. It could be "DSOTH1973 Lasers" or something like that. They're not going to ask you for a copy of a business license so, you don't have to go through the actual process of starting a business.

"In theory", using a laser projector in the privacy of your own home shouldn't require a variance BUT... and there are several "buts"... since you are spending the money for a varianced laser to begin with... since you live in New York... since it doesn't cost anything to apply... and because 3 watts is a stupid amount of power for someones home use... and since they legally can't sell it to you without it... I'd go ahead and file. The form is reasonably simple to navigate although, some terms/questions you may need a little help in answering and feel free to ask them here. As mentioned, in order to maintain it, you just need to also remember to do an annual report each August.

maybe someone would be kind enough to walk me through as i fill it out. as i already have plenty of questions that i dont want to fill this thread with. maybe a chat line over aim or fb or something. im online now. pm me your s/n

PM sent.


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