Noob question on scanning

Hi all. Great to be here! I've been considering picking up a laser from China. After reading heaps of posts and info I'm going with either Eighton, Golden or ABLE. Would like CNI diodes, DT30 and with safety features for mainly beam stuff. I had a question about the whole crowd scanning thing. I live in Japan and read on the ILDA site that scanning in Japan needs a permit but apparently it's rarely received nor enforced. In any case I couldn't live with myself to hurt someones eyes from doing noob stuff. So my question is -

I keep reading in various places that under 5W is fairly safe. I'm only looking to get a 1.5w RGB at the very most (the room is small and dark, will use smoke). After checking those maker websites they all seem to have some failsafe. Should I still be worrying do you guys think? Thank you for any help!

P.s is the AL30k sufficient for beam shows do you guys think? Or should I pay the extra and go with the DT..

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I keep reading in various places that under 5W is fairly safe

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LOL!

Under 5mW (milliwatts) is considered safe in a pointer, 5 WATTS is far from safe.

Hi And,

Anyone that says under 5 watts is "fairly" safe is like saying sex without a condom "might" not get you pregnant.

In the US, under 4.95mW is considered safe. That's 300 times less than your 1.5 watt RGB. That should tell you something. You're also saying small room. That basically puts your audience a hell of a lot closer to the projector which means that energy is still highly concentrated. Distance, which allows space for the beam to diverge and the energy level to drop in the beam is the only thing that's going to help here. Having a failsafe is certainly a good idea but, you really need to look into something like the Pangolin Safety Scan lens if you're going to attempt that. AND... know how to use the lens and use the correct one. There is a lot that needs to be done and learned if you are planning on scanning an audience and you have a moral if not even legal responsibility to do that before ever waving your prick... er... beams around. Sorry to sound harsh but, then again... no, I'm not. :)

Yes... pay the extra to go with the DT's.

Okay thanks for the advice. Guess I'll just drop the whole idea all together on the rgb since its so unsafe (sorry to Goldenstar etc who I already emailed XD). How about those mini ones that make all the squiggly patters etc? http://www.amazon.co.jp/elite-Laser-..._bxgy_MI_img_y
Its actually after seeing that little one in a shop that fired up an interest in laser projectors. I went through the ebay and amazon china junk research roller coaster before figuring that safety was priority and selecting better companies etc. I'd buy Kvant with divergers (was quoted $5000 on the 801) but hey im not loaded and it's my first projector. So figured on Goldenstar etc. But if it's so unsafe than better to forget lasers.

What about those spinning LED head type things then? Ive noticed those around (dont know the brands) in some local livehouse mini rooms. They seem sound activated and must be safe? Anyone used them?

They are pretty commonly used and often aimed at a dance floor and probably about as safe as you can get. I'm not trying to discourage you from going with the RGB. It's simply if you're going to get it, keep the projectors and beams above the audience and not IN the audience. (Without a lot more learning, experience and safe practices.)

I would take a strong look at Lightspace and the Leo or, the LS-RGB-700.

Oh.... and the most important thing... this is NOT an inexpensive hobby. Kiss any hope of financial solvency goodbye once you start. There is more than just the projector you're going to need. You'll need something to produce atmosphere so the beams can be seen, cables, and some sort of control system to run them. And... once you have one... you will want more!

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Originally Posted by Bradfo69

They are pretty commonly used and often aimed at a dance floor and probably about as safe as you can get. I'm not trying to discourage you from going with the RGB. It's simply if you're going to get it, keep the projectors and beams above the audience and not IN the audience. (Without a lot more learning, experience and safe practices.)

I would take a strong look at Lightspace and the Leo or, the LS-RGB-700.

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Okay thanks thats good news about the little Elite unit I may go with it after all. I've been looking at LED stuff now and noticed something called a Chauvet Swarm 5 fx. In the vid its pointed in a crowds 'would be' direction. It seems to be a combo of strobes, LEDs and small lasers - http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Chauvet-...-/390913608214
Is this one safe for my purpose?

Chauvet makes a lot of good stuff. They are all very popular with mobile DJ's and I see them used quite frequently. I own several products from Chauvet and they are all deemed safe. They may say in their instruction manual to not necessarily aim certain models at a crowd but, because the mobile DJ market is often not well versed in lasers and safety, they are still regarded as being safe. American DJ makes a few things as well and I think they would all be fine for your purposes. I would rather see you get something from Chauvet or American DJ over a no-name effect laser of Chinese origin since I don't know that the same can be said for all of those units. The Chauvet may cost a little bit more but, in the end, the quality and safety factor is worth it. Filters, burst gratings and low powers are all your friend. If you want a really nice "wow" laser, take a look at the Chauvet Scorpion Storm MG. Great little laser for about $150 US. http://www.chauvetlighting.com/scorpion-storm-mg.html I see they've been discontinued but a little searching and you should be able to find one.

I'm probably not the best expert on the subject, but so far I've been very happy with the Goldenstar laser I bought awhile back... They make the cases bigger now, something I'm dealing with while going from 20k scanners to the PT-40s... Try and get the 40k scanners if you can... Goldenstar does the SD card support quite well so ask for it, even if it doesn't come stock with the model you get. And with ILDA and DMX support, you have plenty of room and options to try out other things... A Goldenstar projector is a lot of laser for someone starting out for not a whole ton of money...

Thank you all for the helpful responses. I think i muddled up the 5mw 5w in my original post (also meaning i had it muddled up in my own mind, otherwise i most likely wouldn't have posed the question to begin with)

I do care a lot about safety and affecting others eye sight. I was so excited to get into laser projectors but am feeling happy still after seeing the range from Chauvet which should suffice for our groups minor-ish purpose (heck we would have needed strobes anyway). I will go with something from them, and perhaps in the future if the need arises (for the band we have) to expand then i'll revisit laser projectors but strictly keep it at an angle above peoples heads. I'd do a safety course too but dunno where in Japan, also im weak on the language a tad haha. Maybe when revisiting Australia.

Building them does sound fun too, though might be time consuming! I used to do those pcb soldering kits all the time and really loved it :)

Thanks guys

It's a fun and wild ride should you ever decide to hop on. Again, I wasn't trying to be offensive in my first post but, 5 watts is a TON of power and quite honestly more than many of the people here even have. That's bordering on outside shows versus inside shows (you need more power outside) and would be WAY too bright in a small room and especially ON an audience.

Chauvet is a perfectly acceptable start and can still set you on a slippery slope. My first laser was a little Chauvet Scorpion LG20 that was $65 off eBay - not even 5 years ago and I know since them... I'm easily in excess of $125,000.

What type of genre is your band?

Another thing to keep in mind is that real laser projectors do require your pretty much undivided attention. Frequently live, you are "playing" them, not unlike you play an instrument or a DJ plays his turntables. It would be challenging and perhaps foolhardy to try and do both. You'd need to probably add a lighting guy just to pay attention to the lasers (and other lights).

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Originally Posted by And

P.s is the AL30k sufficient for beam shows do you guys think? Or should I pay the extra and go with the DT..

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Hi the AL20k is even sufficient for 30kpps scanning. I have those here including the al15k for experimentation and messing with.
You need to retune the AL20k if you are getting it so you will have to get your feet wet with that right away.

I would shell out for the DT but if you want it here is the tuning guide:
Attachment 46119
Don't mind the mention of the side linear pots.. those are actually offsets. (for indeed the centering) I just never bothered to correct it in my image.

Regarding crowdscanning.. wouldn't recommend it right away for someone just starting out.
Hope you can get some venue with a high enough ceiling where you can scan overhead... I think a lot of venues minus some really premium once don't really have a high ceiling.. perhaps I'm wrong.
5W is most certainly crazy much for indoors and even worse when its really dark.

You don't even need 1watt.. you can get away with 500mw (miliwatt) in most small sized venues.. especially small ones haze and smoke will do a lot.
Might not sound like a lot but for lasers this is still much.

For the recent replies-

Band is alternative rock style, I dont actually play in it but rather do the multimedia and other stuff.

Also I think under a watt is easily sufficient for us sometime in yhe future and without any crowd scanning.

Leaning towards the Chauvet swarm 5 as well as a mini kinta or an adj aggressor (seen better reviews for the kinta so far)

Cheers :)

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Originally Posted by Bradfo69

Chauvet makes a lot of good stuff. They are all very popular with mobile DJ's and I see them used quite frequently. I own several products from Chauvet and they are all deemed safe. They may say in their instruction manual to not necessarily aim certain models at a crowd but, because the mobile DJ market is often not well versed in lasers and safety, they are still regarded as being safe. American DJ makes a few things as well and I think they would all be fine for your purposes. I would rather see you get something from Chauvet or American DJ over a no-name effect laser of Chinese origin since I don't know that the same can be said for all of those units. The Chauvet may cost a little bit more but, in the end, the quality and safety factor is worth it. Filters, burst gratings and low powers are all your friend. If you want a really nice "wow" laser, take a look at the Chauvet Scorpion Storm MG. Great little laser for about $150 US. http://www.chauvetlighting.com/scorpion-storm-mg.html I see they've been discontinued but a little searching and you should be able to find one.

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What do you guys think of the Chauvet Scorpion Dual laser? Would it be considered a 'safe' laser for the purposes i listed? It's FDA approved and all that. The price is very attractive for some peace of mind. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...orpion&_sop=15

I think you'd be fine with that. It uses what's called "fat beam' technology to make it eye safe. That's simply a divergence of the beam to make it much larger in diameter.

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Originally Posted by Bradfo69

I think you'd be fine with that. It uses what's called "fat beam' technology to make it eye safe. That's simply a divergence of the beam to make it much larger in diameter.

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Thanks very much. I ordered one. Will use it in conjuction with my already purchased Swarm 5fx, one unit in each far upper corner of the room.