SELEM 10 - August 9th through the 14th, 2016 - Sign up now!

10th annual South Eastern Laser Enthusiast's Meeting (SELEM)
Tuesday, August 9th through Sunday, August 14th
at the Newton-Conover Auditorium in Newton, North Carolina.

Register via Paypal: selempayment@gmail.com
Be sure to include your shirt size!

Early registration – now through May 31st (Guaranteed a shirt) $99 Early Registration is now closed!
Standard registration - June 1st through July 26th (Guaranteed a shirt) $129 Standard Registration is now closed!
Late registration or at the door – July 27th through the end of the event (no guarantee of a shirt) $149

Please note that registration fees are non-refundable.

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Guests are free to attend. Generally, guests are family or friends of the people who attend, and generally share some interest in lasers, but are not laserists themselves.

Teenage children are allowed to attend if they are old enough to follow rules and be responsible. Young children (under 13) are discouraged from attending, and may only attend if they are continually supervised by a parent or guardian.

Liability waivers (see attached) will be required for all persons (this includes registered attendees and all guests). Minors will need a parent or guardian to sign their waiver. When you arrive, go to the loading dock entrance first and sign your waiver at the sign-in table in the hallway.

Once your waiver is signed, you will be issued a lanyard with a name badge, and if you registered in time (before July 26th) you will receive your official SELEM shirt. (Extra shirts for yourself or your guests are completely optional and may be purchased in advance for $20.)

Also, just a reminder that ABSOLUTELY NO WEAPONS OF ANY KIND, ESPECIALLY FIREARMS, WILL BE PERMITTED AT SELEM. THIS INCLUDES ALL INDOOR SPACES AS WELL AS THE OUTDOOR AREAS SURROUNDING THE AUDITORIUM AND THE SCHOOL. If you have a concealed-carry permit, leave your weapon in your car and don't park it on the auditorium block.

Now, for the details: First, the obvious question: Why did the price go up? Well, for one, we made the event 33% larger by adding an entirely new space for this year (the gymnasium across from the cafeteria). Also, we added another full day to the event so things aren’t so rushed. All of this adds to the budget.

Event schedule:

Tuesday, August 9th. Load-in and set-up. Start at 10 AM, run until 6 PM. We will be setting up 3 spaces this year: in the Auditorium, the former Cafeteria, and the old Gymnasium (new space for this year).
Wednesday, August 10th through Saturday, August 13th. Start at 10 AM, run until Midnight. Typical SELEM activities running all day in multiple areas.
Sunday, August 14th. Start at 10 AM, run until 6 PM. Pack-up, load-out, clean-up, and say your goodbye’s. May have some short presentations in the morning.

General layout:

Auditorium will be used for running pre-choreographed graphics and abstract shows, along with pre-choreographed multi-projector beam shows. At least one Z-5 analog console will be in here, along with several solid state projectors (for both beams and graphics), a dedicated Kr/Ar mixed-gas whitelight laser with two scan heads for graphics, and new for this year: a pair of full color ion lasers on stage for beam effects!

Cafeteria area will be the new "enthusiast display space", or as I like to call it, the show-off room! The focus will be on home-made projectors, modules, and other cool items, but there may be a space for one or two commercial products to be displayed as well. (Note: this is not a trade show. Any commercial displays are to be low-key and in good taste, in keeping with the hobbyist/enthusiast character of this event.) We will definitely have a Z-5 console in here, and maybe a few other interactive displays too. Some presentations will be done in the cafeteria, especially those that will be more interactive. General projector maintenance should also be performed in this space.

Gymnasium will be used for “Club-SELEM”, and will be dedicated to live beam shows. Open consoles will be available for those who want to try their hand at running a show "live". We may have one or two presentations in this space related to live show control.

Stage area (behind the main curtain) will be the new buy / sell / trade area. (Finally, more room for everyone's stuff!) There may also be some quick projector repair going on here, but most of that should be done either in the cafeteria (for solid state) or the Men's dressing room (for ion lasers requiring 3 phase power and water).

Men's dressing room will be the ion laser work room, as before. Exposed high voltage and high-power beams in this room! Always ask before entering if the door is closed.

Woman’s dressing room will be used for drinks, food, and snacks storage. (Trying to remove the clutter from the main hallway.)

Gallery area (lobby) will be used for training and demonstration presentations.

Presentations:

We have several topics on-deck for this year, including some old favorites (scanner tuning, projector 101, LSX tips and tricks, What’s new at Pangolin, etc) and some new ones like live beam-show control ideas, tips to using Beyond, and something I like to call “so you want to start a laser business”. We are also open to suggestions for new topics, so if you would like to see something specific (or if you would like to volunteer to put on a presentation), please reply below!

Greg Makhov is available to teach the ILDA Laser Safety Officer training class on Monday, August 15th, this year. Cost is $425 per person for ILDA members, or $495 per person for non-members. We need a minimum of 6 people to sign up in order to hold the class. Payment must be made directly to ILDA using the ILDA website. (Contact Patrick Murphy at mail@laserist.org for details on how to do this.)
EDIT: It appears that there were not enough people interested to make the class happen. Sorry folks!

This will be the 10th anniversary of SELEM, and several people have been working hard behind the scenes to ensure that this SELEM is the best ever. We have received lots of feedback about past events, and this year we have tried to incorporate as many of those suggestions into the event as we could. That is one of the reasons behind the expanded schedule and the extra space for this year. Sorry about the price increase, but the budget for SELEM is now in excess of 4 grand, so the price had to go up a bit. I promise that it will be worth it though! :)

Adam

EDIT: If you want to stay at the Holiday Inn Express in Conover, we have a group rate available: $95 per night for either a single king bed or two queen beds. Note also that they have all new beds, new TVs, and new Keurig coffee machines in all rooms for this year. Call (828) 465-7070 and mention that you are with the "SELEM LASER GROUP" to get the special rate.

List of Registered Attendees:
Buffo
Ekeefe
Bradfo69
Rodman1369
Lazerjock
Hitekvoop
HankLloydRight
Discothefunkyhippo
SaltyRobot
Dkumpula
Telmnstr
Rvto3
Flecom
DZ
Firstlight_Mike
AnthonyGarcia
DanBarlow
Icecruncher
Chexmex
Xtaega
Laserlotus
Whitcher88
Guitar Jerry
KANG
Laser3Dguy
AllThatWhichIs
Imagelight
ILDADirect
Stuka
Mattronium
CountFunkula
Laserman121
Lulighttech
Fog-Man
Stuckinparadox
Joe Hopkins
Swamidog
Laserworld
BlueFang
Stefan
MarioMaster
Jeff (Jefferythe00)
Lumia
Echelon
SingleMode
A. R. Gon
SoulFeast
RGB-Gas
Rns0504
Pangolin
Araugh

Hello,

Payment sent!

ED

I'll be damned! Someone finally beat Brad to be the first to register! :)

Well done, Ed. Got you on the list!

Adam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ekeefe

Hello,

Payment sent!

ED

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Geez.... You could have given me a heads up! Not like we weren't talking for four hours today. ��

Payment sent.... Duh.

I have submitted the required sum. :party:
I told my wife I had put in for leave in AUGUST for SELEM...She REMINDED me that I am Supposed to RETIRE in JULY!
So...She Said I Shouldn't give up my pleasures after retirement...as long as I prepare and plan my resources accordingly...and I believe I have done that or I wouldn't be retiring!!! So...SELEM 10 is a portion of my Continuing Retirement Celebration! :cake:

Congratulations, Rodney! So this will be your first "retired SELEM"... Cool!

And Brad, I honestly wasn't sure if I would end up posting on Saturday or not, which is why I didn't mention it when we were on Skype. But I had the time later in the evening so I went ahead and did it. :)

Adam

No worries.... :) (Don't let that shit happen again. lol)
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Congrats Rodney! I wonder if the day will happen that I'll be able to go to SELEM as a retired person. Probably not, as my "retirement" is a large pile of flight cases, half empty bottles of haze fluid, and extension cords. :rolleyes:

Payment Sent!
This one is going to be the greatest SELEM yet! I can feel it.
Chris

Has the Holiday Inn been notified we are returning......like locusts?
Or do they just know and give us the special rate?

Good catch, Chris. I haven't contacted the Holiday Inn Express yet. Will probably do that Monday...

Adam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bradfo69

Geez.... You could have given me a heads up! Not like we weren't talking for four hours today. ��

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Yeah, seriously, Adam! Not even one word!!



:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bradfo69

Geez.... You could have given me a heads up! Not like we weren't talking for four hours today. ��

Payment sent.... Duh.

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aww, did someone sneak in while you weren't looking? ;)

- - - Updated - - -

re-arranged my commitments to be able to attend. Bringing the lot once again :) Payment sent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitekvoop

aww, did someone sneak in while you weren't looking? ;)

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Oh.my.God!

Brad, you just got served! :D

Quote:

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- - - Updated - - -
re-arranged my commitments to be able to attend. Bringing the lot once again :) Payment sent.

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WOOT! Hell yeah dude! You rock!

And Hank, I swear I didn't know I was going to put the post up until well after we got off Skype. But in fairness, I have been telling people for weeks that it would be posted soon. I just needed some time to run the numbers once more...

Adam

Buffo:I promise that it will be worth it though!
Let's Seeee...Going to a Laser Show these days could cost you say $20...Usually Pink Floyd (which I Love) and are few and Far between!
Going to one SELEM nets you about 8 hours of Laser shows a night...Highly Original and Musically and Visually Diverse shows...AND you learn SO MUCH at the event! Multiple Subjects and fields. And So Well Run and Organized! $99 is Awesome! [popcorn]

Wow, now that's some service! I see my name already on the list *before* I sent buffo a payment.

It's that pesky time machine again!


Is anyone else bringing a bigger Tesla coil?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitekvoop

aww, did someone sneak in while you weren't looking? ;)

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Quote taken from another thread......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitekvoop

stay out of this, flyboy!

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Hmmmm looks like flyboy beat YOU to the punch. :rolleyes:
Lol Just playing around.

Glad to hear your going to make it after all Rick.

I have a feeling if John Murphy (polishedball) makes the trip, he will bring one of his new tesla coils. (Much larger, I'm told...) Would be great to have a collection of them present, although for the safety of everyone's electronics I think it would be best if we kept them outside when they were running.

Adam.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buffo

I have a feeling if John Murphy (polishedball) makes the trip, he will bring one of his new tesla coils. (Much larger, I'm told...) Would be great to have a collection of them present, although for the safety of everyone's electronics I think it would be best if we kept them outside when they were running.

Adam.

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agreed.

big tesla coils are best as outdoor toys. just like flamethrowers.

Flamethrower, you say? Hmmmm.....
You planing to bring a gasoline-fueled water-rocket as a demonstration aid for our little chat this year, Chris? :rolleyes:

Adam

Payment sent!!!

-Sal

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buffo

Flamethrower, you say? Hmmmm.....
You planing to bring a gasoline-fueled water-rocket as a demonstration aid for our little chat this year, Chris? :rolleyes:

Adam

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i think TSA would disagree with that plan.

Attachment 49770

This is from the special effects house I used to work at. It was my first job after graduating college.
I have the prototype. It only makes a 10 ft fireball though. All I would need is a BBQ propane tank to connect it to.
Not as impressive as Swami though.

Actual product that was installed in a put put course. This was taken in the parking lot of the special effects house the day before the install.
Attachment 49771

This is the prototype.
Attachment 49772

Chris

That's at a mini golf course. :eek:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lazerjock

All I would need is a BBQ propane tank to connect it to.

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This can be arranged. I live close enough that I can drive one up and we can fire this off in the field across the street.

@Buffo Payment sent. Shirt size Large

Payment sent! I can't wait!

Rodney, an early welcome the Retiree Club! Trust me, you're going to love it.

-David

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrEvil

That's at a mini golf course. :eek:

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Yup! It's in Myrtle Beach SC. We installed it in a volcano.
Here is the final product. You can see the water cannons going off too. It looks like lava.
Attachment 49773

There was a dragon that breathed fire & a lagoon that burned too, but I don't have pictures of either of those. They weren't as impressive as the volcano anyway.
I doubt they are still in business. That was back in 1996.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaltyRobot

This can be arranged. I live close enough that I can drive one up and we can fire this off in the field across the street.

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I don't want to cause issues with the local fire dept. We see them enough during SELEM. I will defer to the all mighty Adam to decide if I should bring it.

When was that installed? It's been a few years since I've been to MB. I'm not a fan of going there for various reasons. I might have to check that out though.

That was back in 1996.

Payment Sent! Tele Monster isn't missing it this year!

Payment sent. This will be my first SELEEM. Thanks to all the guys that help me get started and to Adam for all he has done for me. A big special thanks to my son Chris who made it all possible. See you all at SELEEM.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rvto3

Payment sent. This will be my first SELEEM. Thanks to all the guys that help me get started and to Adam for all he has done for me. A big special thanks to my son Chris who made it all possible. See you all at SELEEM.

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Hehehe.... See? Show up at FLEM and then the slippery slope begins. :cool:
.
(You need a lumia projector. Jus sayin'. >:))

Glad to see so many people signing up early! This is going to be the best SELEM ever!

As for the flame-pot, I think it would be best if we did not try to fire that thing. For one, it would not be covered by the venue's insurance policy, so any mishap would be our responsibility. (And that could get very costly.) More importantly though, I think it might send the wrong message to the locals who might witness it and report it as "a bunch of guys playing with fire in a field". That puts us in the unenviable position of trying to justify a fire-cannon at a laser meet...

So as cool as it might be to have a flame-geyser at SELEM, I think it would be a bad idea. Besides, it's not as if we don't have lots of other things already competing for our limited time, right?

Adam

Well put. I 100% agree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buffo

Glad to see so many people signing up early! This is going to be the best SELEM ever!

As for the flame-pot, I think it would be best if we did not try to fire that thing. For one, it would not be covered by the venue's insurance policy, so any mishap would be our responsibility. (And that could get very costly.) More importantly though, I think it might send the wrong message to the locals who might witness it and report it as "a bunch of guys playing with fire in a field". That puts us in the unenviable position of trying to justify a fire-cannon at a laser meet...

So as cool as it might be to have a flame-geyser at SELEM, I think it would be a bad idea. Besides, it's not as if we don't have lots of other things already competing for our limited time, right?

Adam

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Adam with his reasonable and logical thinking again. Makes sense though. We would not want to locals to run us out of town.

Are there the LSO classes/test options at this meeting or is it just at other ones?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jgoodwin27

Are there the LSO classes/test options at this meeting or is it just at other ones?

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there are often LSO classes / tests the day after SELEM ends.

With the exception of last year, for several years preceding it, Adam was able to get Greg Makhov to come and teach the ILDA LSO class on the Monday following SELEM in the conference room of the Holiday Inn. Provided his schedule allows it and there are enough people that sign up to take it, I suspect it could happen again. I believe there needed to be at least 6 in order for it to happen. It's an absolutely worthwhile thing to do. The class starts about 8 or 8:30 in the morning and with the exam, you're looking at being there until about 6 pm provided you want to wait to get the results.
.
If it's something that gets arranged, we've also been fortunate in the past where there has be a reduced price if you sign up early and, there has also been a discount off the course if you join ILDA. It's not inexpensive and, it's not easy but, SELEM has also produced the largest number of people successfully taking the course and passing the exam since it's inception so, I think if we have enough interest, ILDA/Greg would be willing to help make it happen.

Well I might wait a bit and see if there is some interest, I'd love to come if I can take a class, so here is hoping! Do you have any recommendations for study topics/math involved? I have read many books on lasers (i.e. Slinely's "Safety with Lasers" one of the most fascinating academic research books I've read) and taken a few optical physics courses so I can't imagine it being too much harder then any of that

One of the interesting things about the exam is that it is open book, open notes, open internet. You may use whatever you have at your disposal to try an answer the question. The two keys are that you have the ability to search for the information you need and that you know how to take a multiple choice test with tricky questions and tricky answers - some of which may be very similar but one nuance makes one more correct than the other.
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Two helpful skills are remembering how to do high school level algebra and being able to perform calculations on a scientific calculator. Although there is not an enormous amount of math on the exam, with what there is.... you need to complete the problem to see which of the answers is actually correct. Another thing that is helpful is learning the anatomy of the eye and which wavelengths adversely affect which parts.
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While much of what is tested is covered during the class, not everything necessarily is, hence the reason for needing to have the skills to find an answer. I did not pass the first time around, missing the cutoff by one question but the biggest reason I think was not having any idea of what to expect going into it. I was a little under two years into lasers and while I had some exposure to the topic, I really wasn't that "up" on the math part nor did I know how to use a scientific calculator for the couple questions that required it. I didn't realize that the biggest nugget of wisdom what how to look for the answers. The second time around, a year later at the next SELEM (I took the course again), I knew what to expect and basically aced it. I think the first time pass rate is about 70 percent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jgoodwin27

Are there the LSO classes/test options at this meeting?

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As others have already mentioned, the LSO class has traditionally been offered on Monday the day after SELEM. We did this for 4 years straight, starting in 2011. However, last year we did not have enough people interested in the class to make it happen. :(

So far this year you are the second person who has asked about attending an LSO course the day after SELEM. If we can do this, it would be held on Monday, August 15th. I will check with Greg Makhov at LSDI to see if he is available to teach that day. Assuming he is, then yeah - we will need a total of 6 people to sign up and pay in advance to make the class happen.

That being said, I can't recommend this class highly enough! It is a *great* way to learn more about laser safety. In my opinion, anyone who does commercial shows should take the class, but even if you are just experimenting in your own basement, you will still get a lot out of the class. Greg is a very good teacher with decades of experience in laser safety. Many of the examples you will work through during the class are based on actual installs that Greg has worked on over the years.

Adam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buffo

As others have already mentioned, the LSO class has traditionally been offered on Monday the day after SELEM. We did this for 4 years straight, starting in 2011. However, last year we did not have enough people interested in the class to make it happen. :(

So far this year you are the second person who has asked about attending an LSO course the day after SELEM. If we can do this, it would be held on Monday, August 15th. I will check with Greg Makhov at LSDI to see if he is available to teach that day. Assuming he is, then yeah - we will need a total of 6 people to sign up and pay in advance to make the class happen.

That being said, I can't recommend this class highly enough! It is a *great* way to learn more about laser safety. In my opinion, anyone who does commercial shows should take the class, but even if you are just experimenting in your own basement, you will still get a lot out of the class. Greg is a very good teacher with decades of experience in laser safety. Many of the examples you will work through during the class are based on actual installs that Greg has worked on over the years.

Adam

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Adam, How much is the class? Maybe I can get NGS to pay for mine.

Hey Jason;

I think it's around $550, but it has been a while since I looked up the pricing (couple years). I will check with Greg and Patrick today to see if there are any discounts available for SELEM and/or ILDA members and get an updated price...

Adam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buffo

Hey Jason;

I think it's around $550, but it has been a while since I looked up the pricing (couple years). I will check with Greg and Patrick today to see if there are any discounts available for SELEM and/or ILDA members and get an updated price...

Adam

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Put me on the list of maybe. It will totally be contingent on if I can convince Northrop to pay for the training.

OK, Greg Makhov *is* available to teach the LSO class. :) We just need a minimum of 6 people to sign up. If we don't get 6 people, we don't have a class. Payment will need to be made directly to ILDA.

Pricing is the same as in 2014: The class costs $425 if you are an ILDA member, and $495 if you are not an ILDA member.

As soon as we have 6 people confirmed, Greg will book his flight and room.

Also, I just got off the phone with Katy at the Holiday Inn Express: Group rate is $95 per night for this year. They've updated their rooms with new TVs, new Keurig coffee machines, and all of the full size beds have been replaced by queen size beds. I've updated the first post in this thread to reflect all this.

Adam

That's a net of $55 more if you also become an ILDA member and, if you've ever considered it, this would be the year because, if you're close to SELEM, your close to the ILDA conference which will be held in Baltimore, MD in early November. That gives you enough time to recover from SELEM and start the jonesing process for more major photons, with a "fix" only a few months away. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bradfo69

That's a net of $55 more if you also become and ILDA member and, if you've ever considered it, this would be the year because, if you're close to SELEM, your close to the ILDA conference which will be held in Baltimore, MD in early November. That gives you enough time to recover from SELEM and start the jonesing process for more major photons, with a "fix" only a few months away. :)

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i do recommend joining ilda. i've had some very good experiences as a member and its led to some interesting work and travel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by swamidog

i do recommend joining ilda. i've had some very good experiences as a member and its led to some interesting work and travel.

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...and you might even get a nifty pin!

Attachment 49789

-Sal

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaltyRobot

Put me on the list of maybe. It will totally be contingent on if I can convince Northrop to pay for the training.

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Just a heads up, the LSO from ILDA is LSO for lasers used for shows . It's not a LSO that would cover industrial / manufacturing / research type environments AFAIK.

I picked mine up last year. I thought it was a bit difficult, the course is condensed as I understand it for our group -- so the presentations and stuff might miss some things that were on the test. The presentations and course are probably several days for the non-LEM type groups. I didn't take good notes on a few things figuring they would be common enough they would be in the handout and they weren't. And as we know how the laser industry works people tend to paywall a lot of info so everything wasn't that quick to find on the internet. It wasn't too bad though but it made me sweat!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bradfo69

That's a net of $55 more if you also become an ILDA member and, :)

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Hmm... looks like the difference is only $27.50 (for newly joining individuals)-- the ILDA membership after March is prorated down to $97.50 for the remainder of the year.

I'm thinking of the LSO class.. just a bit expensive!

Also, it sure didn't take ILDA very long to update their LSO page on their website:

Quote:

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In August 2016, we envision having a course at the South East Laser Enthusiasts Meeting in Newton, NC. The exact date has not yet been set.

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How many of you go to the ILDA conference? How much is the conference fee, usually? Is it as fun as SELEM?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HankLloydRight

I'm thinking of the LSO class.. just a bit expensive!

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HAHA! Come on, Hank... You should know by now that everything about this hobby is expensive! :)

But seriously, the class is well worth the money. Although what people have posted above is very true: It is a rigorous course, and only about 70% of the people pass it on their first try. If you thought the SCUBA test was challenging, you're in for a bigger challenge this time! But it is a good class and the knowledge is very valuable, even for a hobbyist.

Also, it is definitely geared towards laser light shows. If you need the LSO certification for a job that uses industrial or medical lasers, this course might be a good primer for you, but it is NOT designed to meet all of the requirements for industrial or medical applications. So if you want to be an industrial laser LSO, you'll still want to take one of the courses offered by Coherent or others. But this class will prepare you quite well for one of those other classes.

Quote:

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it sure didn't take ILDA very long to update their LSO page on their website

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Actually, that hasn't been updated yet. They've had that text on there for quite a while. Just last night I sent Patrick the dates for SELEM, and also mentioned that Greg was available to teach the LSO class on the 15th. So assuming we get 6 people to sign up, I'm sure Patrick will change the ILDA website to reflect the fact that the class will happen after SELEM.

Quote:

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How many of you go to the ILDA conference? How much is the conference fee, usually? Is it as fun as SELEM?

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You will probably see a handful of PL members at the ILDA conference this year. The attendance fee is pretty steep when compared to SELEM. They haven't posted a price for this year's conference yet, but figure on at least $500. Then you have to pay for your room ($165 per night). If you don't stay at the hotel where the conference is held, you have to pay an extra $250 to register. (This is to ensure they get enough rooms booked to cover the cost of the ballroom and classrooms.) They have some more details on the ILDA website here: http://ilda.com/conf2016.html

As for how much fun it is, I would have to say it's a different kind of fun. SELEM is more like a party among close friends. Everyone seems to know everyone already (and if you are new, you are almost immediately classified as an "old friend" and are treated as just another one of the group), so it's like one great big social event, only with lasers... The social aspect of the event is key to it's continued success. It's also got a large "impromptu" feel to it, where you can pretty much do whatever you want if an idea strikes you.

In contrast, an ILDA conference is much more structured. Also, in my experience at least, people tended to gather in discrete groups of people who have worked together or done other things together in the past. Within those groups there was a great social bond, but I definitely felt less of a sense of "community" at ILDA than I did at SELEM. However, the event is unquestionably more professional. The awards ceremony and Lase-off events are done just like you'd expect a commercial show to be done. (No 3...2...1... CLICK!) :)

Then too, there is almost always a day devoted to exploring the town that the conference is held in. And there are specialty classes offered at ILDA that you won't find at any Laser Enthusiast's Meeting. Over all, the atmosphere is just different. That's not to say it is better or worse, and many, many people find ILDA conferences to be extremely rewarding, but it is not the same thing as SELEM.

Adam