C.T. Lasers (Marc Atrosky) Luminance RGB3000

Hello everyone on PhotonLexicon. I have been lurking for months now and I figured I would make my first post a review of my C.T. Lasers Luminance RGB3000. This all started at the beginning of May when I decided to buy the first laser system that I could use "legally" outside of my home. On C.T. Lasers website, they claim that their Luminance RGB projectors are FDA certified, come with a show variance, and have a 3-year warranty. With his summer sale, I figured this would be an amazing deal so I went forward with the purchase.

It took him about 3 days to respond to my order request and said that he cannot accept online payment, I was quite nervous about trusting a random person but I sent him the check anyways and he said he would throw in a little "treat" for the inconvenience. In the meantime, while the check was in transit I asked to start the application for the variance and gave him my information. One week later he responded saying that he will FedEx the paperwork. I waited very patiently for about a month without hearing anything from the FDA or Marc so I asked him if he would ship the projector. He said the system will go into post-production (QC, Testing, Burn-in) then will send me the tracking number once shipped (shipping cost $163 from nj to il apparently) and resubmit the variance application so I was feeling quite happy at this point.

Once again I waited very patiently, I received no tracking number or anything and about 2 weeks later it showed up. I opened the box and it was empty except for the projector. No manual, keys, remote stop box, nothing in the box at all (especially no "treat"). So I emailed Marc and he blamed it on one of his "employees" and he will overnight the stuff. Of course, 5 days later after hearing nothing, I asked what the status is then he shipped the keys. Although this process has been delayed over 2 months I was still very excited to receive my first real laser projector.

As soon as I turned it on, it made this horrible bearing screech coming from the fans. I emailed Marc and he instructed me to open it up and look for a voltage selection switch on one of the power supplies because the fans were not receiving the proper voltage...........So I did, in fact I took both power supplies out and completely apart and there was no switch. This was the point where he just stopped responding to all emails and phone calls, so I gave up.... RIP 3 year warranty. I ordered some new fans on amazon and replaced them myself. Never, did I expect to be repairing my brand new projector before its even been used on a single show.

I will admit after adjusting the minimum and maximum voltage via quick show I got the white balance perfect and it did look amazing in my basement. The scanners are true 40k at 8 degrees, but I am not sure exactly what they are. I would guess they are DT-40's. The module is all in one and the red beam size is slightly bigger then the green/blue but the divergence is good. I paid $1,813 total, but this review is more about the experience rather then the hardware itself.

At this point, I still had not received anything from the FDA so I started lurking on the forums. After doing some more research I realized what I had. This projector is just a re-branded Goldenstar projector and it doesn't even have a safety shutter inside or the proper labeling on the outside of the case. I think this is an appropriate time for this meme. So unless I go through the process of installing the safety shutter and proper stickers, I am stuck with a useless illegal box. The most shocking thing for me to see was how good of a reputation Marc has on here, including the fact that he was on the ILDA board. I struggle to understand why he would knowingly do this, so if anyone knows him personally I would love to chat. Here are links to what I bought vs the Goldenstar. I have also attatched pictures.

C.T. Lasers
Goldenstar

I know this is a combined review of the item/seller so please excuse me posting it all in one thread. I do not like posting negative reviews and my goal is not to bring harm to Marc, but I would like to prevent other new laserists from making the same mistake I did. In addition to the story, I have talked to Walt and Melody from lightspace and ordered a 3W from them. Also, Walt helped me through the process of submitting a variance and show report myself and I received a docket number and accession number within the week of submission (how about that marc....). The variance is still in review but I hope to be approved soon. The new projector from lightspace will arrive very soon so if I get some replies from this, I will post a review for that as well, but so far the experience has been great :). Thanks, everyone for your time. I know this is a long one.

Sorry for your experience, TLG, but Marc Atrosky became a crook a long time ago. For example, he owes me $1,600 for two shows I did six years ago to help CT Lasers out of a scheduling conflict - in hindsight, that story was pure bull, as was every excuse he's made since I gave up on pursuing him four years ago. He's stiffed regulars on this forum for a lot more than me. In my experience, the laser / PL community is a terrific group of people - with CT Laser a notable exception. I've done business with thousands of people in the last 20 years, and I'm saddened to say, that Marc was the most unscrupulous / pathologically lying person with which I've interacted. A real pity when a person chooses to throw away his soul for a few bucks. Sad and pathetic. I had hoped that he had faded into irrelevance by now, but unfortunately, that isn't the case.

Wow, that's crazy Larry. I think I recall seeing his post looking for a last minute technician dated roughly 2012. To be honest, I am glad to hear someone else who shares the same frustrations with Marc because I have read nothing but positive things about him on PL. I hope that others will see this post and know to avoid doing business with him at all costs.

My goal is to modify it with one of stanwaxes boards and an eye-magic shutter along with all the proper labeling.

You received something. You should consider yourself lucky. Marc is in to me for $4,000 and communication ceased a couple years ago.
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It's a long and sordid tale. It's a shame because I too, regarded him as a friend and a decent guy. Just a lousy business person. Sadly, I'd be hard pressed to even regard him as a decent guy anymore. Most people here who know me, also know that I am an extremely patient person and, I give people the benefit of the doubt and, more sympathy to their sob stories than they deserve. I've refrained from "truly" going public and writing long reviews with details on a few deals gone bad with people on this forum and in this industry, which is frankly amazing since the combined total from these individuals eclipses $26,600. But... I guess the thought is, if I go public, then that's really the end of any held out hope that they might find even the level of integrity and human decency that some others here contain in the big toe of their right foot. But... there I am being patient again. The fact that most have all been part of ILDA, including... get this... an ethics committee chairperson, doesn't mean shit. It merely means they swindled enough to pay some dues at some point, I guess to make their advertising sound more important.
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Marc admittedly suffers from depression and has other mental issues. Public records reveal at least one bankruptcy and I suspect that's why he feels he doesn't owe me anything although I don't know if I was even listed. But an explanation and apology to a friend cost nothing. I suspect there may be some bipolar and even substance concerns although I can't say that as fact, as it would be slanderous. He also blatantly lies and recently reported to the Connecticut Better Business Bureau that he doesn't even know my name and, his company had never done business with me. Humm.... how about all my texts, e-mails, receipts and bank records from what you actually DID sell me and deliver? See? Mental issues.
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The thing that frustrates me most is, and that these people fail to acknowledge... WE shouldn't have to be chasing and hounding THEM. WE'RE not the ones in the wrong! We paid you for what you were eager to sell!! I didn't flood your basement. Or, crash into your car. Or evict you. Or cause your relative's illness. Or send monumental snow storms to your state. Whatever.... Excuses.
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The only person I know of around here who ever spoke favorably about Marc is dead. They'll be reunited eventually and, if he keeps doing this and with someone LESS patient, it could be sooner than later.
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I'll leave this quote from him from a post a few years ago....
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"The bottom line is things are beginning to work out and I am optimistic that we are on the right track to business as usual.

I am and will continue to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING in my power to rectify these situations. If anyone has any issues with myself, CT. Lasers or any questions/comments- please feel free to contact me personally, (203) 889-1319 or email me marc at ctlasers dot com.
I also look forward to becoming that 110% trusted and "looked up to" Laser company you all came to know and work with.
Again, if anyone has any questions, concerns, comments (respectful ones) please feel free to contact me."

Oh... and it's Arotsky not Atrosky.

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Originally Posted by thelightinggeenie

The most shocking thing for me to see was how good of a reputation Marc has on here, including the fact that he was on the ILDA board.

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Sorry that you got screwed over dude. Marc had a good reputation once upon a time, but things started to fall apart many years ago and have only gotten worse with time. The posts you see above are the tip of the iceberg.

However, I don't remember Marc ever serving on the ILDA board - perhaps you're thinking of someone else?

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So unless I go through the process of installing the safety shutter and proper stickers, I am stuck with a useless illegal box.

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Not necessarily. A shutter is actually not required for the projector to be legal. The requirement states that you must have two independent methods of beam attenuation. Typically in the absence of a shutter this means that you interrupt the DC power flowing to the laser module *and* crowbar the modulation input to ground.

However, the real problem is that in order for a projector to be "legal" it must be certified as compliant by someone who holds a laser product manufacturer's variance. This is not the same thing as a laser light show variance, which all commercial laser operators are required to have. A manufacturer's variance means you are recognized as a product manufacturer and you are trusted by the CDRH to submit laser product reports for all of your laser-containing products. And a product report is a lengthy document that explains in nauseating detail exactly how the manufacturer has ensured that the product meets all requirements.

So to make your projector legal you have two options. You can apply for a manufacturer's variance yourself and then fill out and submit your own product report, or you can pay someone else who already has a manufacturer's variance to have them certify your projector under one of their existing product reports (or alternately, to file a custom report for your unit). In either case, this will probably involve some changes to the internals of the projector to ensure compliance, but honestly it's not a lot of hardware changes. Mostly it's labeling and testing. Getting the product report done is the hard part, as they typically run to over 100 pages.

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I have talked to Walt and Melody from lightspace and ordered a 3W from them. Also, Walt helped me through the process of submitting a variance and show report myself and I received a docket number and accession number within the week of submission

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Walt Meador is a good guy; I've rented gear from him in the past. Also, he has his manufacturer's variance. In theory, he could certify that projector you got from Marc. He may not want to, however, for obvious reasons. (The manufacturer assumes a good deal of liability when they certify a projector.) But it couldn't hurt to ask. If he is already aware of your story, he might be willing to help you out.

Adam

I also gave up hope a couple of weeks ago, which is why I decided to post this. I emailed Marc Arotsky saying that "This will be my last attempt to contact you. I want you to be completely honest with me as to what's going on, business aside." But it all makes sense now. I knew there had to be some major stuff going on that I couldn't see because it just doesn't make sense why you wouldn't answer your customers.

Similarly to you, I try to be very patient and I absolutely hate posting negative reviews, but some things cannot go unspoken. Everyone needs to know to stay away from this guy. You are exactly correct we should not be chasing, reminding, or begging for products because those people never last. One thing that I will commend the Chinese companies that I have purchased from (lots of lighting equipment) is that they are willing to tie themselves into a knot just to make you happy, and that's how it should be. Its really sad, but people wonder why Chinese businesses are taking over every market when in reality it's their poor attitude that is the problem.
*rant over*

You are one of the most respected on the forum, Brad so thanks for your insight.

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Originally Posted by buffo

The posts you see above are the tip of the iceberg.

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Hey Adam, part of my goal with this is for someone like me with 0 connections to the industry to read the honest truth about Marc. I have looked through as many posts as I could about Marc/C.T. Lasers and I didn't see anything negative about him (I could have missed stuff though) although he was active quite a while ago.

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Originally Posted by buffo

Not necessarily. A shutter is actually not required for the projector to be legal. The requirement states that you must have two independent methods of beam attenuation. Typically in the absence of a shutter, this means that you interrupt the DC power flowing to the laser module *and* crowbar the modulation input to ground.

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That's very interesting. I will have to look and see if it has that circuit now.

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Originally Posted by buffo

However, the real problem is that in order for a projector to be "legal" it must be certified as compliant by someone who holds a laser product manufacturer's variance. This is not the same thing as a laser light show variance, which all commercial laser operators are required to have.

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I was aware of this and I think my best option in the long run is to apply for a manufacturers variance so eventually, I can build my own projectors. I just need to purchase a good LPM.

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Originally Posted by thelightinggeenie

...and I didn't see anything negative about him (I could have missed stuff though) although he was active quite a while ago.

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An interesting point. Members and especially new members are often flamed on forums for not using the search feature. I have found that sometimes, no matter how acutely the parameters are fine-tuned, it is easy to get swamped in irrelevant search results. This is one such instance where it was no easy to find information on a seller. While millions of posts can be hard to parse through, I am curious if a vendor "blacklist" that is community moderated could work. Granted, this is a dangerous proposition as this could degrade into a pissing match between fanboys and trolls but then again, the community as a whole knows who the problem vendors are. Perhaps "caveat emptor" list... "you can buy from them but expect long lead times or worse"... Hopefully that can save some people from timely or costly buying experiences.

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Originally Posted by absolom7691

I am curious if a vendor "blacklist" that is community moderated could work.

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I think that's a great idea. Make a new category for it and a thread for each manufacturer or something along those lines.

There is a part of me that agrees with this and yes, I too could see it becoming problematic. We do have a seller review category that's most often used for praise - and many are well deserved. However, there is a lot of hush, hush off the forum discussion of deals going bad and it really "should" be a bit more public so as to warn others. Fact is.... this is often thousands of dollars and yet, everyone is reluctant to say anything publicly. How goofy is that? We'll post a negative review on a $20 item on Amazon, on Best Buy, on Guitar Center etc., in a heartbeat but.... have trouble with a $2k laser projector deal and it's all hidden under the rug for fear of "something".

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Originally Posted by Bradfo69

There is a part of me that agrees with this and yes, I too could see it becoming problematic. We do have a seller review category that's most often used for praise - and many are well deserved. However, there is a lot of hush, hush off the forum discussion of deals going bad and it really "should" be a bit more public so as to warn others. Fact is.... this is often thousands of dollars and yet, everyone is reluctant to say anything publicly. How goofy is that? We'll post a negative review on a $20 item on Amazon, on Best Buy, on Guitar Center etc., in a heartbeat but.... have trouble with a $2k laser projector deal and it's all hidden under the rug for fear of "something".

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Well, I think it's because no one wants to be seen as "being taken for a ride" or "playing the part of the fool". It is embarrassing. I got burned by a seller on eBay a long time ago for a pair of $300 catweazles. There is a bit to the story but it turns out that everyone here warned me that the seller was potentially taking me for a ride and to wait. Well, I let my impatience get the best of me and I forced payment and got burned. I was so embarrassed that I didn't post about it. So, I can see why.

Unfortunately, a rating system wouldn't really work either because there are people on here don't like a certain laser company's ethic or business practices, even though they have never bought/used their products and therefore, downvote; back the the trolls vs fanboys again. So, I guess you're right in that, unless people are honest about their experiences, there is no way to know of a vendor's mettle.

I strongly urge you not to do a "blacklist" state your case and let people decide. making a said list could be legal issue, misused, and just who puts you on or off the list. what criteria? I can see a review of a product or service but I would go no further. You can complain to the Better Business Buerro(? spelling/)

I also strongly urge the editing of said posts where bodily harm is threatened. In this day and age we are NOT free to state our feelings.

I think a "blacklist" would be too difficult to maintain. Trying to keep it *cough* "fair and balanced" would be a nightmare.

Adam

Hello everyone,
It has been a while since I originally posted, however, I was contacted by John Loughlin in September and he was able to help more then I could have imagined.

John is the US importer for Goldenstar and I believe he and Mimi saw my poor experience with Marc reselling their product. They wanted to separate themselves, so John offered to take the 3W and exchange it for one of his Club Cat 5W's, which is a Goldenstar 5W that is modified to comply with the FDA regulations. I can confirm that this projector has all of the required safety features added, including a shutter. He also worked hard to get my variance approved in time, so I could receive the system as soon as it was built. The process did take a couple of months due to Goldenstar being so busy at this time of year and I also waited about a month to post in order to give adequate time to test the projector. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it came with an ATA road case. It really blew away my 3W Lightspace projectors in terms of brightness and color. The beams are a bit larger out of the aperture but I am sure that is due to knife edging. One thing that Kvant boasts is pencil thin beams, but personally, I like the look of fatter beams, especially because I am not doing any arena/stadium shows currently.

Overall I could not be happier with how this turned out. Goldenstar and John went so far above and beyond to help me out. I think that speaks volumes about what they are willing to do for their customers (although I have not directly given them any money..............yet;) ). I have learned so much from this experience and am very grateful that there are still good people in this world, haha joking of course. Also, I want to note that they did not ask me to post this.

In all seriousness though, if there are any new laserists looking to get into the hobby/business for as little $ as possible, avoid CT Lasers at all costs because there is a reason why the prices are so cheap. It is a scam because the projectors are not modified to be legal in the US. Just because there is a sticker saying that it compiles, does not mean it truly does. I would encourage reading this guide from the FDA on what is required for a compliant system. Then, talk to John or Walt about purchasing because they are both trustworthy and most importantly, stay safe!

Johns Website: https://taiserver.com/

I'm glad John could help you out! I've had some business dealings with him, most recently a temporary variance for an art installation in NY (very complicated) and they've all gone off without a hitch. I'd definitely do business with him again.

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Originally Posted by thelightinggeenie

Hello everyone,
It has been a while since I originally posted, however, I was contacted by John Loughlin in September and he was able to help more then I could have imagined.

John is the US importer for Goldenstar and I believe he and Mimi saw my poor experience with Marc reselling their product. They wanted to separate themselves, so John offered to take the 3W and exchange it for one of his Club Cat 5W's, which is a Goldenstar 5W that is modified to comply with the FDA regulations. I can confirm that this projector has all of the required safety features added, including a shutter. He also worked hard to get my variance approved in time, so I could receive the system as soon as it was built. The process did take a couple of months due to Goldenstar being so busy at this time of year and I also waited about a month to post in order to give adequate time to test the projector. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it came with an ATA road case. It really blew away my 3W Lightspace projectors in terms of brightness and color. The beams are a bit larger out of the aperture but I am sure that is due to knife edging. One thing that Kvant boasts is pencil thin beams, but personally, I like the look of fatter beams, especially because I am not doing any arena/stadium shows currently.

Overall I could not be happier with how this turned out. Goldenstar and John went so far above and beyond to help me out. I think that speaks volumes about what they are willing to do for their customers (although I have not directly given them any money..............yet;) ). I have learned so much from this experience and am very grateful that there are still good people in this world, haha joking of course. Also, I want to note that they did not ask me to post this.

In all seriousness though, if there are any new laserists looking to get into the hobby/business for as little $ as possible, avoid CT Lasers at all costs because there is a reason why the prices are so cheap. It is a scam because the projectors are not modified to be legal in the US. Just because there is a sticker saying that it compiles, does not mean it truly does. I would encourage reading this guide from the FDA on what is required for a compliant system. Then, talk to John or Walt about purchasing because they are both trustworthy and most importantly, stay safe!

Johns Website: https://taiserver.com/

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This was so long ago haha, but im glad Novo shared this to FB so that all of the new people know to stay far away from Marc.

Regardless, I have come a very long way since this post and its funny to think that I bought my first projector in 2018. I own 12+ systems from John now and I haven't had a single one of them need to be repaired. Id like to do a review of my fiber corrected 30w's soon (maybe with a radiator :p)! I highly recommend Tech Arts for anyone looking for affordable FDA compliant projectors that are durable and have a nice beam.

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Originally Posted by thelightinggeenie

This was so long ago haha, but im glad Novo shared this to FB so that all of the new people know to stay far away from Marc.

Regardless, I have come a very long way since this post and its funny to think that I bought my first projector in 2018. I own 12+ systems from John now and I haven't had a single one of them need to be repaired. Id like to do a review of my fiber corrected 30w's soon (maybe with a radiator :p)! I highly recommend Tech Arts for anyone looking for affordable FDA compliant projectors that are durable and have a nice beam.

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We spent some time with the Radiator and one of those 30W projectors... It was stupidly fun ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz3PT_U2Dqo