Help me out with this RGB laser purchase

Hi all
Need your help in following regard.
I has come across a Chinese laser manufacturer who's offering me 1watt RGB laser(30k scanner) with i show software and controller at US3500$ .:confused:
The diodes are: 200mw Blue, 500mw Green and 300mw Red
The favor i would need from all veterans here is what else do i need to inquire about the technical specifications of this projector ,so that i may not fall in some trap of being ignorant about something.
My purpose of this laser is to do graphics only animated outdoor laser shows
on large scrim screens.
I am looking for some professional gear to carry these shows in future but just to experiment with this idea i wish to start with minimal investment so was thinking of going for this set up initially.

I wouldn't spend $3500 on TTL.

Analog will be around 7k-10k$ Plus what what is the wavelength of red diod?
If it's 660 then it's totally useless.
I don't know but CNI for example can do a driver swap for not a lot extra money.

[quote=Dr Laser;38096]If it's 660 then it's totally useless[quote]

Not sure I would totally agree with that one ;)

Ok, so balanced white output that projector would be closer to about ~600mW probably less, but if it is TTL, you wouldn't have control over it.

Do you have a link to the manufacturer of this laser projector?

Also you say you want to do outdoor events. If you could offer some more information regarding what you are using the projector for (you specify 'large scrims' how large are we talking?) it would help us.

Also do you have a time frame that you need to start right now? If not... I have a hunch that you should wait.... ;)

[quote=p1t8ull;38117][quote=Dr Laser;38096]If it's 660 then it's totally useless

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Not sure I would totally agree with that one ;)

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If it's 300mw of 660nm in this projector then it 's a GB + little bit of R:)

elvis find out what wavelengths they use for red! Do they have IR filters.

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If it's 300mw of 660nm in this projector then it 's a GB + little bit of R:)

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This is true. What we found at SELEM and FLEM meets, is that 635nm appears about 5 times brighter than 660nm. So, you can consider 200mW of 635 appears as bright as about a watt of 660nm...

I would like to have a screen as big as 1 watt projector can project onto.But atleast 5m*5m, iam expecting.
I would be needing the projector primarily for showing animated cartoons or characters in a short motion pictures of say 20 minutes or so.
The link to the product is:
http://www.chinesedepartmentstore.co...oducts_id/2275

I think i can wait a bit ,am in no hurry to start up.:)

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Originally Posted by mliptack

Ok, so balanced white output that projector would be closer to about ~600mW probably less, but if it is TTL, you wouldn't have control over it.

Do you have a link to the manufacturer of this laser projector?

Also you say you want to do outdoor events. If you could offer some more information regarding what you are using the projector for (you specify 'large scrims' how large are we talking?) it would help us.

Also do you have a time frame that you need to start right now? If not... I have a hunch that you should wait.... ;)

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I am willing to bet that it is 635nm red, in that case the beam is going to be huge compared to the green and blue lasers, something that would become a considerable issue when projected the distance needed (about 7.5 meters @ 8 degrees scan angle).

And 660nm @ 200mW would be a bit on the lower end especially if the projector is TTL. In the case of TTL the green and blue would vastly over-power such a small laser.

AND At the price it definitely is not 671nm!

One last thing you really need to consider is the ambient light level.

-Max

They screwed up on the web page its
500mw red
300mw green
200mw blue
and the price is $5400

I can't imaging the price of labour in China. Possibly 10$ to build this projector.

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Originally Posted by DZ

This is true. What we found at SELEM and FLEM meets, is that 635nm appears about 5 times brighter than 660nm. So, you can consider 200mW of 635 appears as bright as about a watt of 660nm...

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With 300mw of 660nm in the "200mw Blue, 500mw Green and 300mw Red" ratio's, yes the red will be very weak if 660. I was just sticking up for the wavelength a bit ;)

DZ, (sorry elvis, this isn't helpful to you and a bit off topic, but while we're on the subject) 5:1 may be accurate given the powered lasers you compared in the conditions at SELEM, but when you up the power the comparison chart for red at this wavelength changes massively under certain conditions, mainly when you increase the throw distance and density of smoke in the air.

I saw a RGY recently in a fairly smoke filled club with 2.5watts 664nm mixed with just over 1watt of 532nm, and at ~25m concluded that the red was actually brighter than the green, it punched it's way through the smoke better. Projecting the same lasers close up onto a screen, the green is stronger, not by as much as you would think though but the yellow is a bit limey. Then scanning outside in very light fog, the green is very visible and the red very dim next to it.

Pit8ull;

Remember that we're not talking about beams here. Elvis wants the projector for a graphics show on a scrim. In this case, DZ is correct; 500 mw of 635 nm red will be fine, but 500 mw of 660nm would be way too dim.

In any case, the non-linearity you're speaking of really comes into play with multi-watt beams. Since this whole projector is under a watt (total), the standard chart for color response applies.

Elvis;

As to whether the projector is appropriate for the intended use - I have a few reservations. One, it's TTL only, and you really want analog blanking for graphics. (Beamshows work OK with TTL, but you want those extra colors and shades for your graphics.) Two, the beam diameter of that 635 nm laser is probably going to be a LOT larger than the other two, and that will make the graphics look funny.

See how much extra it would cost to get analog blanking, and ask some pointed questions about beam diameter and divergence for all three lasers.

Adam

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Originally Posted by Buffo

See how much extra it would cost to get analog blanking, and ask some pointed questions about beam diameter and divergence for all three lasers.

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I'd have to second this :)

If you want to come back here with the results, we'll be happy to interpret them to you, if you need help there too.

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Originally Posted by p1t8ull

I saw a RGY recently in a fairly smoke filled club with 2.5watts 664nm mixed with just over 1watt of 532nm, and at ~25m concluded that the red was actually brighter than the green, it punched it's way through the smoke better. Projecting the same lasers close up onto a screen, the green is stronger, not by as much as you would think though but the yellow is a bit limey. Then scanning outside in very light fog, the green is very visible and the red very dim next to it.

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Hmmm this is interesting, it is after all the reason why the sky is blue, and sunsets are red :)

Never thought it would be applicable to a club atmosphere... :rolleyes:

Did I accidentally start the beating of a very dead horse. I'm very sorry:(

I'm sorry for adding my ramblings to your thread Elvis :o

Just had a telephonic discussion with the manufacturer.He told the red is 635nm.I asked for few sample videos using this very projector but he said he has none.So i really dont know the output from this projector.Plus the fact is here in INDIA i dont have access to single laser projector manufacturer who can show some demo.Really dont know how to proceed further with my selection of laser projector?

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Originally Posted by Buffo

Pit8ull;

Remember that we're not talking about beams here. Elvis wants the projector for a graphics show on a scrim. In this case, DZ is correct; 500 mw of 635 nm red will be fine, but 500 mw of 660nm would be way too dim.

In any case, the non-linearity you're speaking of really comes into play with multi-watt beams. Since this whole projector is under a watt (total), the standard chart for color response applies.

Elvis;

As to whether the projector is appropriate for the intended use - I have a few reservations. One, it's TTL only, and you really want analog blanking for graphics. (Beamshows work OK with TTL, but you want those extra colors and shades for your graphics.) Two, the beam diameter of that 635 nm laser is probably going to be a LOT larger than the other two, and that will make the graphics look funny.

See how much extra it would cost to get analog blanking, and ask some pointed questions about beam diameter and divergence for all three lasers.

Adam

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Have you tried contacting the Pangolin dealer in India? Here's there info from the Pangolin Website:

Reynold's Sound & Lighting Services Pvt. Ltd
30, Richmond Road,Bangalore - 560 025. +91-80-22215663 / 22218651 / 22292047Fax : +91-80-22292048, E-mail: reynold_blr@vsnl.com, Web: www.reynoldonline.com, Contact: Felix Remedios

I imagine Felix would be able to offer you considerable assistance, not to mention a demo or two. I suggest you give him a call and see if he's willing to help.

Adam

For already made laser projectors I recommend KVANT (http://www.lasershow.sk) For controller I recommend ether Lasergraph DSP or Pangolin.

The 2.5 watt Spectrum 2000 unit they sell looks damn nice...;)

They don't have any prices on the website though. :(

Adam

2.5W Spectrum 2000 - 19k EUR with CT galvos... 17k EUR with LM.

Hmmm.... I think I'm being too ambitious here.:cool:

Yow! That's expensive... nice kit and all, but *OUCH*! Expensive.

Adam

0,8W full color SPECTRUM 2000
http://www.lasershow.sk/spectrum1wico2.jpg"new professional outdoor air cooled white light laser system" consist of 8W green 532nm DPSS laser, 8W blue/457 DPSS laser, 5W/650nm+2W/635nm red diode, input power 230V/3A {on request 110V},analog {RGB} modulation, color scale 16,8 mil., completed in an aluminium housing for standard ILDA connectors, power consumption 2000VA, acceptable weight and easy maintenance, beam divergence 1,5mrad, beam diameter 4mm X,Y scanning system CT6215 scanners with speed up to 30k



OOOh 23w for the 800mW price! I like!

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Originally Posted by mliptack

0,8W full color SPECTRUM 2000
http://www.lasershow.sk/spectrum1wico2.jpg"new professional outdoor air cooled white light laser system" consist of 8W green 532nm DPSS laser, 8W blue/457 DPSS laser, 5W/650nm+2W/635nm red diode, input power 230V/3A {on request 110V},analog {RGB} modulation, color scale 16,8 mil., completed in an aluminium housing for standard ILDA connectors, power consumption 2000VA, acceptable weight and easy maintenance, beam divergence 1,5mrad, beam diameter 4mm X,Y scanning system CT6215 scanners with speed up to 30k



OOOh 23w for the 800mW price! I like!

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I only have a price for 15W = 84K EUR!

800mw is 9K EUR with LM and 11K EUR with CT!

So on the KVANT site on the bottom left hand corner there is a link for the video of the lasers' demo.

I though I saw that as a Media-Las demo a while ago... anyway... does anyone know what music is playing in the background?

http://www.lasershow.sk/videa/peugeot2007.wmv

thats a link to the download

Here are the diode details from the manufacturer.Do u guys still think red will diverge a lot from a diode with following specs:
M2 factor <1.2
Beam divergence, full angle (mrad) <1.5
Beam diameter at the aperture (mm) ~2.0
~3.0
Beam height from base (mm) 24.8
Spectral linewidth (nm) <0.1
Polarization ratio >100:1 (0 or 90 degree)

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Originally Posted by Buffo

Pit8ull;

Remember that we're not talking about beams here. Elvis wants the projector for a graphics show on a scrim. In this case, DZ is correct; 500 mw of 635 nm red will be fine, but 500 mw of 660nm would be way too dim.

In any case, the non-linearity you're speaking of really comes into play with multi-watt beams. Since this whole projector is under a watt (total), the standard chart for color response applies.

Elvis;

As to whether the projector is appropriate for the intended use - I have a few reservations. One, it's TTL only, and you really want analog blanking for graphics. (Beamshows work OK with TTL, but you want those extra colors and shades for your graphics.) Two, the beam diameter of that 635 nm laser is probably going to be a LOT larger than the other two, and that will make the graphics look funny.

See how much extra it would cost to get analog blanking, and ask some pointed questions about beam diameter and divergence for all three lasers.

Adam

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Sounds like some really good beam specs like close to that of green or blue. Really makes me wonder though.

Can anyone tell me what the M squared factor is supposed to mean?

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Originally Posted by elvis

Here are the diode details from the manufacturer.Do u guys still think red will diverge a lot from a diode with following specs:
M2 factor <1.2
Beam divergence, full angle (mrad) <1.5
Beam diameter at the aperture (mm) ~2.0
~3.0
Beam height from base (mm) 24.8
Spectral linewidth (nm) <0.1
Polarization ratio >100:1 (0 or 90 degree)

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Originally Posted by elvis

Here are the diode details from the manufacturer.Do u guys still think red will diverge a lot from a diode with following specs:
M2 factor <1.2
Beam divergence, full angle (mrad) <1.5
Beam diameter at the aperture (mm) ~2.0
~3.0
Beam height from base (mm) 24.8
Spectral linewidth (nm) <0.1
Polarization ratio >100:1 (0 or 90 degree)

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not with a 635 diode...

most 635 diodes have 5mrad or more of divergence. the best 635 I've seen are still 3.xmrad. There is some new stuff out that is down to 1.5 but the diode alone would cost what the projector does. if you go more than a few feet it'll make a big difference, everything will have a red edge to it.

Another thing, the scanners may not good enough for your purpose. Spec say 30k but I am afraid that is not always the case in reality with cheap Chinese lasers.