could not resist while I was testing my conversion settings. Format 0 ilda file assuming the standard 64 color palette. Any comments on this file are welcome (does it load in your show software, does is display right at 30k, etc).
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could not resist while I was testing my conversion settings. Format 0 ilda file assuming the standard 64 color palette. Any comments on this file are welcome (does it load in your show software, does is display right at 30k, etc).
NICE!!! I have to wait until tonight to test it but I definatly will. :)
Loads fine in pangolin. Though it seems that a few points were added to the right side of the frame.:p
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!Quote:
Originally Posted by DZ
LOL, how about animating that one :DQuote:
Originally Posted by DZ
hehe! I'll have to think something up. Did you have something in mind?!Quote:
how about animating that one
Thanks for this. It goes down in history as the first image projected using my new scanners!
DZ, well for some reason balloon popping comes to mind.. :D
drla, awesome!
that is really sweet. i wish i had enough to buy a scanner that hooked up to a computer
Well, you can build one pretty cheap now.
Dear carmangary, what solution would you suggest to someone as green as I am as a usb to ilda interface and software solution to display clips do text signage /billboard graphics and or animation and a little lasershow play !
I am on a very low budget I could rationalize spending up to $1000 within 6 months right now closer to $250+Cringe seeking close to 3 have seen some lasershow stuff from germany but auctions are spiraling up over $600 at moment. I saw something called moncha lite and have heard bill brenner @ pangolin is promoting some type entry level system, your advice appreciated you seem like a guy who with the right hardware who could write his own software.........
Sure here is one.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Zoof
Dude, that frame needs a warning... The scanners weren't to happy about showing those last few frames. Especailly not the one it opens first. :rolleyes: They much prefer the original, or maybe animate the gun in DZ's to shot the smiley, and the effect on the smiley once shot. ;)
Works great on my system;)
Dude. That is so f***ing sick.
I love it.
James. :)
here is an animated version that was reworked in LB
Where?Quote:
Originally Posted by keeperx
James. :)
oops.. its there now..
This file only opens in LaserBoy!
This is an example of the non-existant ILDA format 3!
See how well it opens in LaserBoy! :D
James. :)
it certainly doesn't open in ZoofBrew :DQuote:
Originally Posted by James Lehman
It could be that I never tested my code with other's format 3 ilda headers and that my file reading code is messy.
But it could be that the first ilda 3 header in your file specifies 808465203 points for the lookup table - you may want to check that.
Anarchy wont open it, and Pangolin opens the first 16 frames.
try this on for size
I know my format 3 is not the same one that was put out there as a proposal.... or at least not the last version of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoof
This is the heart of my big bitch with ILDA and their file format.
First of all, I think it's wrong to call each section a format. I think the whole thing is The ILDA File Format. Each section of the ILDA format is just that: a section. Each section has a header and a data segment.
When I first put LaserBoy out there in 2004, I added 24-bit color capability to it, in the form of a section 3 that uses a section header that is exactly the same data structure as all of the other ILDA section headers.
After I announced that LaserBoy could read and write "format 3", I asked for some examples of 24-bit frames. I got two frames from the guy who was at the time the chair of the ILDA Technical Standards and Specifications Committee. When I found that LaserBoy could not open the files, I looked again at the published proposed 24-bit "format 3" and it had been changed to what you might find on the Internet now.
Since the change in the "format 3" section header makes no sense at all and is clearly, technically incorrect, as it uses a 32-bit number to describe something that can never be more than a 16-bit number... AND no one has ever come forward with ANY explanation as to why this change was made, I can only assume that it was busted in order to ruin the idea. And it seems to have worked!
That is, unless you have LaserBoy.
You can open my "format 3" files and convert them to "format 4 or 5". In the process, you might also see the benefits of a working "format 3".
If you feel like asking me why I don't just re-write my code so that it reads and writes the last published "format 3", don't bother.
I think it's a very bad idea to purpetuate stupidity.
James. :)
I almost fell out the chair on that one... >:)Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehman
im gonna pretend i did not just read that post (by james) and go back to the world where he is done bitching about this stuff, because i think it's a very bad idea to perpetuate stupidity.
at any rate, laserboy can read anything and write anything that is in current open use so who gives a rip... if you open the most recen posted version of retardo, im sure you will find that it works with pango just fine...
the 32-bit number thing explains it.
Well done on the sorting and z-clipping in LBoy:)
I just got a phone call from keeperx. He was using Spaghetti with some ILDA files he made in LaserBoy, so to save some time and effort, he pointed his Spaghetti to the ild directory inside the LaserBoy folder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoof
Guess what!
Just because he had some "LaserBoy format 3" files in there, Spaghetti crashed!
Why?
Because, it looks for the busted ILDA format 3. When it sees a LaserBoy format 3 header it looks at it like a busted ILDA header.
Since the busted ILDA format 3 uses a 4 byte integer to designate a number that can never be more than a 2 byte integer can hold, it only takes 1 bit out of place to tell Spaghetti to prepare to read BILLIONS of elements instead of tens of thousands. OUT OF MEMORY!
A four byte integer can count up to 4G of stuff. A 2 byte integer can only count to 64K.
This issue is so blatantly STUPID, I can not believe that it came about as a matter of mishap or short sightedness ~ by a committee of so called experts.
BTW, this is the same group that now wants to be in control of your credentials as a laserist, whether you're a member or not.
Get it? ;):rolleyes::eek::(:mad:
From what I understand, camangary fixed Spaghetti so that it doesn't crash on the LaserBoy ild folder anymore.
James. :)
I know of one other blatantly wrong thing with the standard and it has to do with frame numbering. Do you know what I am talking about? And did you implement it that way?
I do know what you're talking about; the frame id.
I came up with a way to do it in my code, but I think the idea is kind of pointless. The frames are already in natural order in the file!
James. :)
Against my better judgement I added support for your format 3 (in addition to the real format 3). I was curious to see what some of your files looked like.
Thank you!
That wasn't so painful. Was it? :D
I'm sure you found that they look exactly like formats 4 & 5 except that some of the frames may be 0 or 1 with a palette.
Just like it should be!
James. :)
No, it wasn't painful at all and that is really irritating me right. You could have EASILY just done it the way the ILDA Standard file on your website says to do it and you wouldn't be polluting the internet with your proprietary format 3 files and I and others wouldn't have to waste time figuring out what you did and check bytes to be able to load two different formats with the same format code.
I'm not going to propagate this nonsense so I ripped out the code to handle your files.
I'm not the one who busted format 3!
I'm the guy who's been asking why ever since.
WTF is the point of having a "proposal" if you ignore anyone who comments on it?
If it had not been busted, but rather properly implemented in the first place, NONE of this nonsense would have happened.
There would be no variation in format 3 files and format 4 & 5 would not exist.
I don't like information pollution either!
THAT is exactly my point.
So you see it's busted but you think that's OK, even though the whole format 3 thing has been completely abandoned by ILDA and nobody cares?
OK. Whatever.
I guess you can't be on both sides of this issue. But you can be on neither.
James. :)
Format 3 is dead but before way back when Spaghetti was nothing but an ILDA file viewer I ran across some files I couldn't read. I found the format code to be 3 and asked Bill Benner about them. He clued me in on the Format 3 story and provided me with the ILDA published document. I didn't care if it is right or wrong. I just wanted to read it. It was in an ILDA document and it was implemented in a real file I had so that was good enough for me.
Right or wrong, I can read Format 3 files that match a published document. I don't expect anyone to run across many of these files but support is in there form them regardless.
Honestly, I think format 3 is totally stupid. I think the version I have implemented is stupid. I think your version is stupid. But one of those versions is on paper. It isn't yours.
That pretty much sums it up as far as I am concerned. I think most others feel the same way.
OK. So you came into the picture after format 3 was first proposed correctly and then ruined. You implemented the ruined version, because that's what was out there.
Had I been in exactly the same place in time, I would have done exactly the same thing. But, I still would have thought it was the dumbest industry standard blunder I'd ever come across.
The fact is that I came into the picture before ANY version of ANY format other than 0, 1, and 2 had been proposed for open comment.
Why don't we just abandon the use of the number 3 all together? It makes about as much sense!
Nobody can have three of anything anymore; just 1, 2, 4 or 5!
That's gonna' mess with some Christians! You're all going to have to come up with another form for The Creator! :D
Reminds me of MP & The Holy Grail.
One, Two, Five! (uh three sir!)
James. :)
Had I come in at the same time as you I still would have implemented the version that I did.
Had you implemented format 3 with a uniform header, as was described to you by the chair of the tech committee, tested it, perfected it, added extra smarts to its natural arrangement that enhanced its utility and mutual functionality with the other three previously existing formats without breaking any of the rules, been floating around, high on a cloud of great personal accomplishment and then found out that format 3 had been senselessly destroyed just after you made a public announcement of your success, you would have been OK with that and just gone along with the change?Quote:
Originally Posted by carmangary
OK.
I guess that's a difference between you and me. :D
I might be insane, but at least I'm consistant.
I've never changed my mind about the issue one iota.
James. :)
Yes, I would have changed it. I would have been frustrated by it, though.
As soon as they "broke it" as you say, your version became nothing but a proprietary file format. It doesn't matter if you like it or if you think your version is better. The world moved on. How can you claim to be so smart but are so stupid to this fact? Drop using format 3 because you have no right to do that. Change it to a 255, or change the extension, but stop being stupid about it and messing up everyone elses software.
Hey, this thread is about a retarded smiley, not a retarded format :p
And in comes zoof with a zinger..Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoof
Huh? Is Zoof handing out free Zingers? I used to love those things when I was in High School! :p
Adam
DUDE Zingers are for queers, real men eat Zebra Cakes
The company that stocked the snack machine at the school didn't have a Little Debbie franchise license. But they did have both Dolly Madison and Hostes. So we had Zingers and Twinkies, but no Zebra Cakes...:(
Adam
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmangary
Please realize that it NEVER was "my version".Quote:
Originally Posted by carmangary
I think there is a very basic idea here:
If an international standard is first published one way and then changed to something different, that change should have only been done if there was an absolutely necessary reason, like it doesn't work ... now it does.
Since you (carmangary) have now worked with ALL version of the ILDA format 0, 1, 2, 3, busted 3, 4 & 5, PLEASE explain ANY benefits you see in busted 3.
That is ALL I have ever asked of ANYONE !!!!
WHY?
You're absolutely right about the fact that something like this can totally mess up other people's software. At the time I added 24-bit color to LaserBoy there was NO OTHER SOFTWARE that did it.
James. :)
I agree that the way you have the header makes more sense. But, I don't think it makes the format 3 data any more or less good. My objection to format 3 is that it requires a seperate frame of colors. Format color tables make sense because they apply to many frames. You can do the same with Format 3 but it wouldn't make sense. I think format 4 & 5 are superior. I understand your argument you made awhile back about why Format 3 is good but it isn't compelling enough to make me like it.
Well, thanks for at least agreeing with me in part.
You are right about the difference between a palette (2) and a color table (3) in that a palette has a one-to-many relationship with frames that follow and a color table has ONLY a one-to-one. But other than that, reading them from a file is equally complicated. In both cases you have to store all of the colors before you get the vectors.
I have already suggested another variation of the color table that WOULD have a one-to-many relationship with frames that follow. This would be IDEAL for 24-bit color math generated abstract animations that have a large set of frames that all have exactly the same number of vertices.
At least you didn't say "Because ILDA said so."
Thank God for that.
Also, 4 & 5 are NOT extensions to the original 0, 1, & 2. They REPLACE them entirely. That is a totally new file format.
James. :)
xperts.[/SIZE]
BTW, this is the same group that now wants to be in control of your credentials as a laserist, whether you're a member or not.
No, its not, the committee has changed in membership.
Steve
Good.Quote:
Originally Posted by mixedgas
New broom sweeps clean.
Fix the f*&king file format!
James. :)
4 & 5 aren't extensions in the way that 2 & 3 are but I wouldn't go so far as to call them a different file format. It isn't like you have to totally rewrite code to read them. You only have to slightly change existing code. (We're talking only a few lines of code). So, for that reason, I would say they are very much extensions of the current formats. The only real difference being that 0 & 1 have an index for a color while 4 & 5 explicitly define the color. 0 & 1 seem like a natural thing to do when you have only a small fixed number of colors that can be used. 4 & 5 seem natural when the colors are expected to be unique and within a very large range. 3 doesn't seem natural at all. I consider it nothing more than a hack and based on it never coming to light I think others felt that way as well.
I'll give you credit in that your idea of using a combination of formats 3, 2 & 0 or 1 to be able to specify frames with > 256 colors while still being backwards compatible is clever. But, it's a bloated approach and not likely to actually work since the legacy apps that were written before format 3 will more than likely not handle format 3 and not load the files at all. I know a well written app should skip unrecognized format headers but I am not even entirely certain that will work with format 3 because if the color bytes happened to spell "ILDA" then the software could be fooled into thinking it was at the beginning of a frame.
Format 3 was fixed when they decided it wasn't going to be a format.