Laserworld 600RGY

Ok Guys,

Here comes a review, well sort of.

I haven't been able to verify the scanner speeds.

I have now edited this review with the results of some power tests with a Coherent Meter.



Initial Reaction, Contents, Initial Positives

My initial reaction when receiving the package were, oh my god its huge!!

The flight case is certainly substantial. I had expected a hand carry brief case type. What I actually received was an extremely rugged wheeled case of the type you'd expect to see a roadie to have at a professional concert.

Here's a pic of it next to a bookshelf and with a mobile phone in front of it for scale and then unpacked to reveal the contents - note I've removed some cardboard packing pieces that were in the top of the case, so full marks to Laserworld on packing:




http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/9738/flightcasevv4.jpg


http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/6066/unpackedmb9.jpg



Once opened I was confronted with a beast of a machine. Very nice looking projector. The silver corner reinforcements have some silvering missing but I think this is down to poor coating rather than anything else. Overall, the case seems very substantial with the exception of the sensitivity adjustment knob for the mic which looks a little flimsy. Looks just like what you'd expect to see in a professional nightclub.

Its also nice to see a safety (bracket failure) lanyard included in the package as well as a DMX cable, safety key, safety plug, 3 pin power cable (European not UK unfortunately), very basic photocopied instructions and a Laserworld brochure.

Personally I wouldn't consider the European power lead a major issue. probably an oversight and being a home pc builder, I have a few uk pc power leads lying around (kettle leads are probably another alternative).


Front View:


http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/593/frontviewwc0.jpg




Rear View:


http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/9165/rearviewsa6.jpg





Rear Panel:


http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/9868/rearpanelwy5.jpg



So all very nice so far.

The mode ie. DMX, ILDA, Music is selected using the buttons and the LCD screen which is easy to read.


What's not so good?

1. Key switch isn't captive so key can be removed when in the "on" position and the key is very thin metal and feels like it could be broken in the lock easily.

2. The safety plug (essentially the one you'd wire an emergency stop switch too) has had the plugs soldered together inside to make the projector work. However, this makes it very difficult to reverse it to fit a safety switch. Would have been better to use a length of wire as a bridge in my opinion and soldered it more lightly:

EDIT: Now bought an emergency stop switch. Had to buy a new safety plug due to the internal pin soldering but only cost around £1 so not a major issue.


http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6...typlug1kw7.jpg


http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/848...typlug2iv3.jpg




3. The classification labels have all been obscured with black pen. This kind of made me suspicious of the power claims:


http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5...stickernq7.jpg



http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3...stickerkb7.jpg



EDIT:

He he, I have both UV and IR at my disposal, guess what IR shows:

Power 120W Class 1 (????)

Red Class 3
Green Class 3

The power of Light!

Doesn't photograph as well as can be seen by the naked eye - eye can see the ridges of the embossed paint, the camera just sees the reflections which are more partial.

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/7788/cimg0130xx7.jpg



Bit of solvent on the front sticker reveals Class 3B sticker!!

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5867/cimg0134ep3.jpg


Maybe, they're 400mw Class 3B but typically put out more than specified as mentioned in the advert so can be Class 4 600mw. Would explain both the wording and labelling (wouldn't want a Class 4 product labelled Class 3B or vice Versa), or am I just being optomistic?

EDIT: NOW TESTED WITH A COHERENT POWER METER: 677MW BEST READING, 604MW WORST.

So it meets its specified power levels with ease (Laserworld state: 400mw guaranteed / 600mw typical).


Power test from cold - High Definition Video - shows 604mw:

http://www.vimeo.com/2103065

677mw read when warmed up in later test.



Performance

I started it this morning in a well lit room and projected it onto a white wall 11 feet away opposite. I couldn't see the beams (no smoke) but the patterns looked bright especially at the corners - in fact I had a little inclination to look away from the brightness, especially of the spots at the corners of rectangles or the ends of lines. A good sign I suppose when it comes to assessing the power.

Colourwise, on the wall the colours looked very clean. The red was deep, the green well green, but the colour I expected might be a bit mustardy, the yellow, actually looked quite clean.



Video performance:


Videos in this review are linked on Vimeo but are large as high quality so may take time to buffer.

All the videos are "as is" - no cheating ie. no saturation or contrast increases just as out of the camera.



Graphics Test using High Definition Video


Standard Patterns in Sound to Music Mode:

http://vimeo.com/2131499



Beam Test in High Definition Video

With a Martin Magnum 650 smoke machine and martin DJ smoke, it performed very well. Nice deep reds and clean yellows. Beams very visible when viewed almost head on (camcorder stood just outside of the scan range -literally by inches only and on a similar level to the projector).

Video: In the dark with Martin DJ Smoke:

http://www.vimeo.com/2141812



Internally:

Everything looks neat and tidy. Worst thing I can see is the dichro looks very poor quality and the lasers have white stickers on them that give wavelength but no power info - I rather suspect they sit atop the manufacturers writing.

Otherwise very impressive looking:

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/6979/laservu7.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RGBLaserFan

3. The classification labels have all been obscured with black pen. This kind of makes me suspicious of the power claims although without a meter I can't verify output.

---

Thats seems to be a strange habbit of laserworld.

An other PL member opened his laserworld RGB to find out that all lasers where obscured/sensorized with black pen.

Good review.
Keep it coming as it's this kind of low level stuff that I enjoy.
And the piccies of course (pictures are our hugs!).
:D

My laser has no classification levels at all! Not on the laser, not in the manual, not on package... Any ideas what level it can be? It's a 40 mW green laser, I suspect him for being Chinese. Anyway, is it safe to use it in audience scanning? He has shone in my eyes a few times, it didn't hurt but it was bright and I had an after vision for a few seconds.

Congratulations RGBlaserfan for buying such a nice laser. Just add blue and you're there...

There are no receptors in the back of your eye (retina) so you don't feel burns or damage being done.

The only safe way to audience scan is to calculate MPE. Anything else is a gamble. Some seem to get away with it, some don't. But its a big gamble to take with your sight.

Only way to know for sure about your laser is to buy a power meter or find someone who has one and get it tested.

Videos added.

Might add some more commentary later when I have time to think -very busy at the moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by colouredmirrorball

My laser has no classification levels at all! Not on the laser, not in the manual, not on package... Any ideas what level it can be? It's a 40 mW green laser, I suspect him for being Chinese. Anyway, is it safe to use it in audience scanning? He has shone in my eyes a few times, it didn't hurt but it was bright and I had an after vision for a few seconds.

---

are you even sure it has an ir filter?
from what i hear, unfiltered ir is a serious eye threat too, and a lot of the "cheapies" can be unfiltered.

cheap lasers with no IR filtering are EXTREMELY dangerous. IR is invisible. so you wont know youre getting hurt until its too late. at least with visible lasers, (and not the IR component) you can SEE the danger and follow the proper precautions.

IR, you cant! "Ebaysers"- 99% of the time- do NOT have properly filtered lasers. so, please be cautious and be aware.

-Marc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anthony

Thats seems to be a strange habbit of laserworld.

An other PL member opened his laserworld RGB to find out that all lasers where obscured/sensorized with black pen.

---

Evidently it is a OEM case filled with stuff different from what originally intended.
Laserworld has the bad habit to "enhance" the specs of all their products.
For example my 45K galvo (probably at 1 degree scanning angle :D) became then 50k the next year. Reading carefully you find that "should be" 50k with smaller mirrors that are "unfortunately" NOT mounted on the galvo you get..... >:)
I will rather prefer less "loudness" EQ from their specs

:mad:

I have no doubt that its either OEM cases or maybe the original laser modules overdriven slightly to achieve the stated spec.

I'm sure my case lists both lasers individually as Class 3 though - thats very clear even under the marker and makes me wonder why they were obscured as they have to be Class 3 now. Only thing I couldn't see was a classification letter, so like I say, I wondered if these were old cases that used the old system and that explains the obscurity.

I certainly can't really fault the case though - it all seems to run very cool - the exhaust air doesn't even feel warm after 10 minutes of continual use and the case quality itself seems very good quality - full blown nightclub spec, sensitivity adjustment knob aside, which whilst nicely finished in a chrome look does feel as though it would snap off with a slight knock. Kind of a consumer feeeling part on a commercial feeling product.

As for laser quality, I can't comment properly as I don't have a power meter.

The beams seem of nice diameter, the colours seem very good - the yellow is much cleaner than I expected having seen some pretty poor yellows on Youtube videos, and the brightness is extreme, suggesting to me its probably not far off the claimed values.

If its achieveing its 600mw max, its puts it up there with many of the 700-750mw RGB projectors on here for red / green power, assuming you're using the 100-150mw blues. Obviously if you're using more blue, then its even possibly more powerful in the R/G department than some of the RGB's on here, so its certainly not short on power if achieving those figures!

If I knew how to open the RS case, I could maybe check on the galvos and lasers inside.

I tried the screws in the top plate but it wouldn't budge so there's obviously more holding it shut than immediately meets the eye.

Hi RGB

if it is possible to lift the lid and take a photo of inside it would be very much apreciated ... im interested in the build quality

from previous laserworld stuff i have seen the build quality has been above standard for an import laser

all the best ... Karl

If anyone can tell me how to do it I'll be glad to take some photos.

I know there's a guy on here with some Laserworld RS and Pros and he posted comparisons with them and his own White Light laser in his garage a while ago, but I can't remember which user it was.

Maybe he will know how access is gained. Thing is I don't want to risk a mass assembly job as its my new laser and I'm not a builder - case of if it ain't broke don't fix it! That said, if he can tell me how its done safely, I will access and take photos.

On my proline...

started with undoing the mounting on the top - 4 quick release bolts and 2 safety chain loop screws (u only have 1 on the RS)

next i noticed that by undoing the sides of the unit the top would come off

this was as far as i went before going any deeper into the unit and making sure warranty was ok to do this, with laserworld its all 'alles klar' so dont worry :)


for the RS looking at the pictures it seems like you need to remove those silver side skirts this will probably help

good luck and will be waiting to see what the insides is like compared to my Proline

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Banthai

Hi RGB

if it is possible to lift the lid and take a photo of inside it would be very much apreciated ... im interested in the build quality

from previous laserworld stuff i have seen the build quality has been above standard for an import laser

all the best ... Karl

---

Internal pic up now Karl.

Huh?
Where de pic at?
I see no pic.
Have you just sent it to Karl?
Is there something going on between you two cus if so I have to warn you, he's a bit of a dodgy geezer.
Been round the block a few times, know what I mean (and that's only from what I've read on the internet). ;)

We'd all like a peek inside that baby so do the right thing and show us. :)

It is the bottom most picture there Eagle eyes... :p Under the heading "Internally:"

Hmmm..
Must be a Firefox/AdBlock Plus thing cus all I see is;

Internally:

Everything looks neat and tidy. Worst thing I can see is the dichro looks very poor quality and the lasers have white stickers on them that give wavelength but no power info - I rather suspect they sit atop the manufacturers writing.

Otherwise very impressive looking:

[AD]

Ahh well....... I guess I'll just go sharpen my talons instead of looking at Laser Loveliness. :rolleyes:

Its edited into the review above. I'm definately seeing it, but then again I haven't been exposed to as many lasers as you. ;)

Here's a direct link: http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/6979/laservu7.jpg

Hi RGB

and it looks neat ....

Pleanty of space ... and the laserworld scanners which im using and i have been well impressed with ....

and it ties up with what other people have told me the build quality is far superior than alot of other far east imports ( which is where it originates )
its close to the neo neon spec .... ok its not to our best standard but its better than a lot ive seen

now what would be interesting is to get some thinners or acetone and see whats under the black marker pen .... it does seem that they are hiding ratings ....

hey if they are rated lower than what you have paid for let laserworld know .... its not laserworlds fault because im guessing this has been obscured before it hits europe ... but it will help laserworld to keep on top of thier quality control

all the best... Karl

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Banthai

.. it ties up with what other people have told me the build quality is far superior than alot of other far east imports

---

I'm getting mixed messages about Laserworld.

From another thread:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FourDee

.. I get the impression that you pay for much more than you get with laserworld ...

---

Whilst the cases look quite durable (and distinctive), the prices look a little on the "pricey" side.
I have been tempted in the past to order one of their systems (and have bid on a few on ebay) but the thought of getting hammered with import tax which would also add to the price has prevented me from making a concentrated effort in obtaining one.

And all this talk of them blanking out essential info re: the power ratings does nothing to build confidence in their product.

To try and absolve Laserworld of any responsibilty regarding supplying inferior or lower rated units than stated is a cop out.
Even their ads on ebay specify a 750 mw laser but only guarantee something like 600 mw.
That makes it a 600 mw laser and you might get lucky, not the other way round. :eek:

You won't pay import tax because they come from Germany, there's no import tax payable on any product that comes from within the EU - free market.

The blanked out power ratings do nothing for me either although it does look extremely bright - take a look at the videos, the points at the ends of the lines show real hot spots.

Their advertising is a bit naughty in that they headline the maximum power then state they only guarantee a lower power in the advert. I actually think this is now an illegal practice in the UK or for any company selling into the UK, but its not for me to enforce.

He he, I have both UV and IR at my disposal, guess what IR shows:

Power 120W Class 1 (????)

Red Class 3
Green Class 3

The power of Light!

Doesn't photograph as well as can be seen by the naked eye - eye can see the ridges of the embossed paint, the camera just sees the reflections which are more partial.

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/7788/cimg0130xx7.jpg



Bit of solvent on the front sticker reveals Class 3B sticker!!

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5867/cimg0134ep3.jpg


Maybe, they're 400mw Class 3B but typically put out more than specified as mentioned in the advert so can be Class 4 600mw. Would explain both the wording and labelling (wouldn't want a Class 4 product labelled Class 3B or vice Versa), or am I just being optomistic?

just had some bad news on my LW unit....

kindly Thomas from Karlsruhe invited me up to check out my 750 RGB


the laser was putting out a total of 0.210-0.220 Watts running on white

the blue is putting out a max 70mW (150mW was advertised)

the green is putting out a max of 69mW (150mW was advertised)

and the red is very bad at 72mW (300mW was advertised)


will be on the phone asap 2moro

not very happy chappy - lets see how the customer service deals with this problem - review on the way very soon too!!

wow! i would feel robbed!

they need to make this right!

Majorlee, did each laser have a fixed and stable 5v supply on the modulation inputs when you measured each ones power output?

I ask because for all 3 to be that under spec, it sounds as if you have possibly been measuring modulated beams. if so, you will get much lower than expected readings.

Just a thought...

be interesting to get your one measured up to see how it compares too mate

Quote:

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p1t8ull Majorlee, did each laser have a fixed and stable 5v supply on the modulation inputs when you measured each ones power output?

I ask because for all 3 to be that under spec, it sounds as if you have possibly been measuring modulated beams. if so, you will get much lower than expected readings.

Just a thought...

---

we just measured the beams from the unit itself, but would it make that much difference over 50-60% loss here :(

Not sure what "measured the beams from the unit itself" means exactly, but you do need to know each laser is running at full power and continuous wave if you want to accurately measure the output power with a normal optical/thermal power meter.

If you're telling your software/DAC to output a 100% power R,G or B beam and measuring that at the projectors output window then you will most certainly get some depressing figures. For instance, if I output a single 100pt target beam in LivePro and measure the output with a LC, I get around 400mW out of a laser that's over 1.2w on full chat, this doesn't mean I have a laser or software problem (in fact I'm very happy with both :)) it just means the laser is off (blanked) for a period of time by design, and the LC wand is (badly) averaging the on/off cycle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by p1t8ull

Not sure what "measured the beams from the unit itself" means exactly, but you do need to know each laser is running at full power and continuous wave if you want to accurately measure the output power with a normal optical/thermal power meter.

If you're telling your software/DAC to output a 100% power R,G or B beam and measuring that at the projectors output window then you will most certainly get some depressing figures. For instance, if I output a single 100pt target beam in LivePro and measure the output with a LC, I get around 400mW out of a laser that's over 1.2w on full chat, this doesn't mean I have a laser or software problem (in fact I'm very happy with both :)) it just means the laser is off (blanked) for a period of time by design, and the LC wand is (badly) averaging the on/off cycle.

---

The measurement was taken with 5V applied to the laser inputs (via the easylase testtool, which gives constant, non-modulates color signals, exact voltages are between 4.87 and 4.95V for the color outputs). Yes, we measured after the output window, so there are some losses from the dichros,the scanning system and the output windows.

Thats pretty Damn poor ....

i think you need to expain in detail to LW how you did the test and the crap results ....

its not what you paid for .....

you obviously will get some losses through the optics which you would expect to be about 30% maximum ....


but 60% loss..... does not even meet thier minimum spec ratings of 600mW

hope they sort it out for you ... and its good you had Thomas to help

all the best .... Karl

there just fobbing me off and saying it is the right power and they say send it back to check rather than send one out in replacement etc

will open up a thread about it all here - sorry for the hijack!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by majorlee

there just fobbing me off and saying it is the right power and they say send it back to check rather than send one out in replacement etc

will open up a thread about it all here - sorry for the hijack!

---

Take some photos if you can of tests proving the power levels and then send these over to them (you will need these to take any complaint further anyway so might as well take them now anyway).

Also, you could threaten to report them to trading Standards - I'm presuming you have that in Germany?

Further you could actually do that if you get no joy.

Finally, there's a peice of legislation in the UK called The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 - that criminalised misdiscription amongst other things: http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/Images/...cm2-219616.pdf

Whereas this is a UK law so doesn't apply in Germany, its my understanding that its actually a European law thats been enacted by European Directive in all the member states. That being the case, there should be a German equivolent from the German law makers.

Hope this helps.

How clean are all the optics you're measuring the power after?
LW's seem to have fans circulating air all over them, which is a bad idea...

Good luck with the returns if you go that route. You might want to read my seller review on Laserworld before you send anything back to them as I encountered some terrible business practises from them.

Cover your back at every turn is my advice

Quote:

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Originally Posted by norty303

Good luck with the returns if you go that route. You might want to read my seller review on Laserworld before you send anything back to them as I encountered some terrible business practises from them.

Cover your back at every turn is my advice

---

I'm lucky to live in Germany and even better i found out that thay are less than 100km away

so i told them i would be coming with the laser to test it mutally heheh

there attitude changed a bit when i mentioned this! From we know when it left it was the right power etc to if there are any problems we will find a solution.....suspect in the highest degree

my review will follow this encounter with Laserworld

PS - did my first show last Saturday using the projector for logos on the side of a huge building. All was good except blue was hardly visable being so weak (around 70mW and very grainy). Also used my 4 head RG inside for the dancefloor. will find a link to photos....

http://freiburg.subculture.de/tpl_lo...t_id=6&ipage=1

http://freiburg.subculture.de/tpl_lo...d=4354&cat_id=

I met up with Jem today and we tested my laser with a Coherent meter.

All is OK.

Best reading we had was 120mw Green, 557mw Red = 677mw total!!!

Worst was 115mw Green and 489mw Red = 604mw total!!!

So its well within spec. and at the top end.

Looks like you might have been unlucky, Majorlee.

Only bad thing is the beam spec on the red is poor, probably 50% loss inside the projector due to beam width. That said the green is very tight.

Many thanks to Jem for his help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RGBLaserFan

I met up with Jem today and we tested my laser with a Coherent meter.

All is OK.

Best reading we had was 120mw Green, 557mw Red = 677mw total!!!

Worst was 115mw Green and 489mw Red = 604mw total!!!

So its well within spec. and at the top end.

Looks like you might have been unlucky, Majorlee.

Only bad thing is the beam spec on the red is poor, probably 50% loss inside the projector due to beam width. That said the green is very tight.

Many thanks to Jem for his help.

---

You're more than welcome :)

I have to say that I was well impressed with the unit and I think it is good value for money.

The flight case alone must be worth probably a third of the entire cost. Even the projector case is very well made. I even considered buying one of these just for the case and flightcase, I could then strip everything out and fit my own stuff. At least everything would be ready to wire up on the back panel :D

O.K., so the lasers and dichro's aren't the best in the world but they are by no means all bad. The green is quite tight but the red beam is huge and rather poor, but it's powerful enough and when they're mixed it gives a nice yellow.

The images were quite well defined and reasonably well aligned. So, all in all I would say it was a pretty good unit for the money.

Cheers

Jem

great news mate :)

makes me feel a little better to know ur ok pal - i'm off to pay laserworld a friendly a visit 2moro!!!

so did u measure from the individual units themselves? or from the beam after the optics and scanners?

Measured from the units themselves from a distance of a couple of centimetres and before the dichros.

Video of the test from cold is here:

http://vimeo.com/2103065

(May take a few seconds to buffer)

Test was from cold but showed 115mw Green and 489mw Red after a few secs on = 614mw total.

From warm earlier we had 120mw Green and 557mw red = 667mw total.

All videos now updated with latest High Def versions.

A lot of asian manufactured lasers blot out the true laser class or miss class it as class I laser. That way it avoids having to be compliant to FDA 1040.10 It is a scam for an item that has not passed FDA product approval.
Did you see anywhere any IEC or FDA approval stickers.
Slick trick.

>Power 120W Class 1 (????)

>Red Class 3
>Green Class 3

Class 1 is the electrical appliance class (cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appliance_classes). Unfortunately some people mistook it for the laser class and were complaining, so we had to black it out.

And laser class 3 doesn't exist (it should read 3b), so we had to black it out.

Also we use the housings for class 4 lasers also, so sometimes we had to black out the 3b as well.

By now we use our own stickers with the correct labeling.