First Scanner - Build Advice

Afternoon all,
I've been around a while as a long time lurker - now I've got a few questions.
I like the idea of building myself a scanner, perhaps over the next 6 months. (It's all your fault Stanwax! I was more of a 'pointer' person before, but after popping round to Rob's place to pick a PBS up, I'm now hooked on the idea of making one after seeing all that kit!) - Don't get me started on that awesome Ar/Kr beast. >:)

Anyway,
Unfortunately my budget will be poor, at best. (and as much as I'd like to, I can't blow that student budget on anything laser) :( However I'd like to build a quality system which I can upgrade along the way without replacing too much kit.

I'm thinking of an RGV, realistically speaking, as a 473nm unit is way out of my price bracket. (for now!)
I'd like to build everything I can to bring down the cost, and for the building fun! So I'll be making my own blu-ray and red modules, and the case etc.

I'd be looking at 2x 200mW 405nm diodes PBS'd together with a Flexdrive1 for analogue modulation. (Would I need one driver for each 200mW unit, or could I combine them somehow?)

More or less the same again with the Red 650's, I'll be rigging up 2x 250mW through another PBS. Both the blu-rays and the red diodes will be sat in separate heatsinks (so 4 in total), which I plan to custom build a nice copper and aluminium hybrid heatsink which I'll make on my CNC miller and my lathe.

I'm not 100% sure what to do with the green. I think I'm going to lean towards a 100mW or 200mW module - cheap and decent, if those two words go together. Looking around, the modules from lasershowparts.com seem a good choice, but I'm open for any other suggestions. Analogue modulation is a must, price is a huge factor.

What is the best advice for RGV colour balance? I know 473 is better than 405, but I hope to swap out the 405's a lot later down the line.
If really really needed to, I could throw in my 20mW SL 488nm argon, but I'm reluctant to, as due to it's size, low power, and logistically mounting it may increase the case size somewhat. And It has no modulation, just full on.

The lasers themselves aren't the biggest problem, it's the galvo's, DAC and software which I really need help on.

I'd rather not go for some audio card setup, but get a decent DAC I can plug into my PC and control from there. As it would cost more in the long run to keep upgrading.
Is the FB3 my best choice? If not, what others are good contenders?
What sort of price is the FB3 (UK £) and does it come with all the software I'll need to get going. Animations and Beamshows :D
Basically, could someone point me in the right direction for a piece of kit which can adequately handle the 2x 405's, 2x 650's and the 1x532 with a bit of head room for things in future. (Also I'd need to alter the colour balance of all the lasers in the software)

I think, from what I've read, the ScanPro20 Glavo's should do me for now. They should be capable of good beamshows and basic graphics right?
Any suggestions?

Apart from the lasers, mirrors, dichros, and PBS optics, galvo's and the DAC (e.g. FB3) is there anything critical missing? Besides power and a large case?

And am I right in thinking that the FB3 DAC rig works like this:
PC -> USB -> FB3 : To(Galvo,Red,Violet,Green drivers)
So I don't need to worry about the 25 pin ILDA connectors?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm sure you get it all the time, but if someone could let me know if I'm on the right track, and how to improve the plan before I go a spending.

Cheers,
Dan

Dan,

"welcome" to the forum.. /it's your first post!!! cool

You have some nice plans, and with Rob nearby you have a nice source for parts and knowlage.
For the green i would consider a Laserwave module..they have extreme nice products and alot of people have great experiences with them.
They are a little more expensive but is worth it!!

I have been expirimenting with DX30 Unit...and i wouldn't go that route if i was you.
Bad modulation TTL and bad modulation with analog driver behind it.
save your money and buy LW

The dual red is a nice option if you use a good analog driver.
Its the best option if you are on a tight budget.

The 405 is unkown terretory.
Some of us think it can be a really bad health risk.
And it gets dangerous resonably fast because you need alot of it to go with that 100mw green and 450/500mw red.
I have tried mixing 405 with different powerlevels and can tel you it isn't that great.
I t does give nice colors but you alwas going to need more of it.

400mw of 405 isn;t going to cut it.... not for beamshows.
graphics projected on a white surface will give you nice results.
Be careful with that setup.

scanpro20's are nice but with you vision on the future maybe 30's are better because with 405 you are going to focus more on graphics and less on beamshows. (but green, yellow and RED can give nice beam effects - i will post a link to adams RGY projector at the end op this post)

Maybe you can also consider the DT series scanners.
they do really well... contact rob or DZ for more info.

With the pango pb3 you have a extreme nice dac for your budget.
but you still need the handle the ILDA 25pin connector.
We can help you with that... its no biggie :-)

and you do want the 25pin... because a nice ilda standard projector gives you no compatablity problems in the future.


You centanly came to the right forum!!
Anthony

I'm just past the point where you are at now, with pretty much the same equipment.

I choose the FB3, scanpro20's, a 250mw 523, 2- 4x sleds worth of diodes, and dichros-n-optics.. I think the FB3 is a great deal for what it is.

You will need to use the 25pin ILDA connector on the FB3. It plugs into the control board that comes with the scanpros, or it can be wired straight to the lasers/scan amps. The 25pin is the only connector on the FB3 besides the USB port.

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Originally Posted by Anthony

scanpro20's are nice but with you vision on the future maybe 30's are better because with 405 you are going to focus more on graphics and less on beamshows. (but green, yellow and RED can give nice beam effects - i will post a link to adams RGY projector at the end op this post)

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEsjL...e=channel_page

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anthony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEsjL...e=channel_page

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Nice!
Can that be easily done on the FB3? :D

@Mophead: Do you mind me asking how much you paid for your FB3 and where from? I've heard rumblings of some special FB3 package with extra software - could anyone enlighten me on this?

Hmm... I first started wanting to do just graphics, but I changed my mind and now wanted to concentrate on beam shows, with a few graphics (as I'd need to put more money into better galvo's). Should I edge for the 200mW green, so if the 400mW of 405nm is no good for beam shows, I could just have a fairly decent green kicking away?

So, would 500mW of Red, 200mW of Green, and 400mW of 405nm be suitable? Or should I adjust these values in any way? In future, what xxxmW of 473 should I look at - but that won't be for a long time. At least the 405nm rig will give me roughly RGB for the time being.

What's up with the safety of 405nm? I know it's near UV, but I'm not going to be standing in the beam directly!

Also on a side note: How do RGB laser goggles work? I've got some pairs which cover single wavelengths, but if you blocked the RGB colours out, wouldn't you get near 0% VLT through, so you'd be stumbling around blind? :D Or do they cover narrower wavelength bands through?

Ta,
Dan

Daniel -

Here's a link to the free software availble for the FB3:

http://www.pangolin.com/LA_Studio/3D.htm

There is also a version of LivePRO for the FB3, that has virtually the same set of live performance features (it is NOT free, but is cheaper than the version for the LD2000 suite):

http://www.pangolin.com/LivePRO.htm

You're best bet would be to contact Pangoin directly via the "contact" link on their web page. Let them know you're a member here, and find out the price options for the FB3 package versions you might be interested in.

I think you'll find that other than going the free Laserboy / Spaghetti and modified soundcard DAC route, the FB3 is going to be one of THE best deals available in a VERY full-featured, USB-based controller! :)

hey Dan-

WELCOME to PL! :) you just found the jackpot of laser knowledge and a wealth of some pretty decent people! :p

first off- where from? we like seeing where members are from so that we can stalk you. LOL ( kidding!) its good to see where your from becasue a lot of times there will be other members near you or even LEM's that you may be able to get to and see some rather great systems in use!

FB3 is a GREAT place to start! if you have the budget for it. it is EXTREMELY affordable for the power and professional end software you get. if you have a VERY limited budget or wanted to try a different angle of control many members here use James Lehman's "Laserboy." and another member here Carmangary made software called "Spaghetti." both platforms have been reviewed here and both have had VERY happy and successfull users.

im like you, i LOVE the beams more! dont get me wrong, graphics are "pretty." but the raw energy and "AWE" of beams shootin all over the place is just AWESOME!!!!!

for beams, you want raw power! PURE, RAW, UNADULTERATED POWER!!!! so, the more the merrier. if you are going to lean toward a more beams system, color balance (some people are going to disagree with me here, but thats ok...) is NOT as important as just good POWER!!! so, get the highest powers that your budget allows.

in your ratios-

500 red (650) 200 green and 400mw of 405 are ok ratios. but i would try to talk you into a lower powered 635. you can see my comparison of 635 vs 650. it makes a BIG difference!!! again, just my opinion. some SWEAR by 650/660. some (like me) swear by 635. 635 is going to give a btter impact for beams!

for future referece-

THEORETICAL "Mathematical" white balance calculates out to approximately-

RED (635)= 42.48%
GREEN (532)= 25.09%
BLUE (473)= 32.42%

RED (650)= 70.38%
GREEN (532)= 13.18%
BLUE (473)= 16.44%

-Marc

Thanks for your help + info Marc.
I live in Warrington, UK (about 15 mins from Stanwax) and I think I've seen another member on here who's from Warrington - small world!

Those %'s are a good reference - thanks
Basing things around 500mW of 650nm, I'd need 94mW of 532 and 117mW of 473nm. So that's good news a 100mW 532 module will suite me. But I'm tempted to wait and grab a 200mW to crank it up like you said.
But as I won't be able to afford 150mW of 473 anytime soon, does anyone know what 117mW of 473 is equivalent to in 405? I know it's completely a different thing, but just a ballpark figure. 400mW should be plenty surely? :D

As much as I'd like some 635 reds in the rig, I really couldn't afford it. True that I wouldn't need anywhere near 500mW of 650, more like 200mW based around those figures, but it's far far cheaper for me to rig up a 500mW red in the garage :cool: Unless 200mW of 635 is cheaper than £50, it's going to be 650 for now - but I could always upgrade it in future!

I saw a really nice video on youtube of a 405 and 532 setup. I think it was from a member here, but I can't remember the name.

Thanks again,
Dan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by danielbriggs

I like the idea of building myself a scanner, perhaps over the next 6 months. (It's all your fault Stanwax! I was more of a 'pointer' person before, but after popping round to Rob's place to pick a PBS up, I'm now hooked on the idea of making one after seeing all that kit!) - Don't get me started on that awesome Ar/Kr beast. >:)

Dan

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Aha Dan ...you've been 168'd I believe:p

Welcome to PL....lots of good advice flowing here...and I guess you have already seen the threads by Xntrix and myself ...we built em into PC cases, not the best solution, BUT very very practicle and not a bad result with a limited budget :D ( and with Robs craftsmanship!) very pleased with the results ...
http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...ead.php?t=5852

good luck ...enjoy;)
Kev

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KevSki

Aha Dan ...you've been 168'd I believe:p

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Yep - just a little Kev

I've not been thinking this fully through, but my initial ideas are a 12mm-20mm thick baseplate to work on, tapping holes to secure things as and when. Then when it's all done and dusted, I'll grab some ally 'L' channel and make box up. Solid 3mm plate on two of the opposite sides (one cut out for ports and that, with some nice engraving etc.), and a circular patterned aluminium/s.steel mesh on the other two. Then fans won't be needed, air can convect through. It also means you can see the guts while it's working. And then to top it all off - perhaps a thick polycarbonate lid to really see what's going on inside - or if not, a solid 3mm ally plate if I'm feeling boring.
But I do like the PC case idea - however, I'd like to build my own case, just for the hell of it.
And balls to all those regulations with safety interlocks and whatnot, if it works well, then it should be on show - not in a sealed box! >:)

Well... I best start saving up for some bits!

Dan :)

Welcome to PhotonLexicon, Dan! Always refreshing to see new members. You are indeed fortunate to live close to Rob. He's a tremendous resource. Treat him well, and he will help you build a most impressive projector, I'm sure!

As for being able to create the types of effects you saw in the youtube video above, the short answer is that once you have a projector running, the sky is the limit. You can do pretty much whatever your mind can come up with. Sure, there's the physical speed limits of the scanners to consider, but apart from that - anything is possible.

I also would like to suggest that you jump in to the "Meet and Greet" subforum and check out the UKLEM #4 discussion going on there. Our UK members are planning a Laser Enthusiast's Meeting, and I believe it's going to be held within a month or so from now. If there is any way you can make it to this event, do so.

You'll be surrounded by other laser enthusiasts, and there will be a vast collection of lasers, laser projectors, computers, software, controllers, and other items present. You'll be able to see all this gear up close and in person. You'll be able to pake pictures, ask questions, and maybe even take some of the software for a "test drive". It's a great way to learn about what your choices are for your future projector. (I'm sure you'll also pick up a lot of advice from people that made mistakes when they built their first projectors! Heed this advice and you'll be that much further ahead of the game.)

Most importantly, it's going to be one hell of a fun social event! You'll have a blast, and come home more motivated than ever to get started on your projector.

One final thing: when you start building your projector, be sure to take pictures of the build process. (We like pictures!) :D And if you have questions or problems, you know where to come to get answers!

Once again, welcome to the forums. Looking forward to seeing some pics of your projector soon! ;)

Adam

Cheers Adam,
I've just checked out the thread on the UKLM4. Usually it would be too much of a drive, but I'm fairly sure I'll be at uni in Notts on the 1st. So I think I'll grab a train to the meet, as its only 30 miles away. *finger's crossed*

Rob has given me a few ideas to think over (and to save up for!), so I'm slowly getting there. It's still all on paper of course, but I'll take plenty of photos when the hardware starts rolling in.

Ta,
Dan

Awesome Dan! And glad to hear you'll be able to make it to the UKLEM. Trust me, you'll be oh so happy afterwards!

Adam