does anyone know who does the laser shows for trance energy? they look amazing and im hoping for it to be hugo as im planning on goin this
cheers ollie :D
Printable View
does anyone know who does the laser shows for trance energy? they look amazing and im hoping for it to be hugo as im planning on goin this
cheers ollie :D
If its ID&T, its going to be Hugo..
indeed it is id&t
oooh i might actally get to meet and see a hugo show.
cheers ollie :D
We had a sensation party here NYE.. I didnt go, but judging from photos, there was ALOT of OPSL there!!
:D
Ollie, where's the show being held?
Jem
Have been on Trance Energy :D Damn, that really rocks!!
There's an Awakenings 14 Feb with tickets still available at Euro 35.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jem
Time to take the missus to Holland for Valentines?
Its at Eindhoven (the best shows in the past have been at Gashouder in my opinion from photos and vids I've seen) but the last Eindhoven show, had lasers looking at the pics and its in the new events description.
Page and ticket link here:
http://www.awakenings.nl/index.php
Personally I don't like techno, but then again I don't think anyone here would be going for the music!
Tek no, tek no, tek no notice ......
:D
It's a Yorkshire thang ......
I'm working on that show as lighting operator, so if someone is visiting, please send me a PB!Quote:
Originally Posted by White-Light
Hmmm... Holland eh?
Somehow I don't think my wife would be too keen on me visiting Holland twice in one year... She might think I was up to no good :eek: ;)
Jem
Take her with you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jem
Somehow I don't think you're going to see Hugo outside Holland. I've never heard of an international show hes done yet, although I'm not saying he doesn't.
I'm still considering going to the ILDA conference and I believe that hugo has some involvement with that, so that may be sufficient to satisfy my needs :DQuote:
Originally Posted by White-Light
Awakenings Area 2 (I'm operating):
- 480 LED pars in pixelmapping-matrix setup as ceiling above the audience (7 universes of DMX, so almost 3500 channels)
- Lots of video-screens
So.. One area filled with synced video/light/matrix-setup, will be blasting!:D
hiya everyone
just booked my ticket for this one and am really looking forward to it. i know its a real long shot but im wondering if anyone knows hugo personally and could get me to meet him and see how he runs his shows.
like i say i know its a long shot but i absolutly love his work and would love to ask him some questions
cheers ollie :D
also to see how the lighting engineers work would be good too as the whole show at this thing looks amazing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKXwSoyzNCs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXZSXA0VnHw
heres the same video from a different perspective
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siuth...eature=related
this is tiestos intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twyfUeLT1MQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-8rG...eature=related
just a few videos from previous years. theres one that i first saw with a time tunnel but i cant find it now. it looked so superb
cheers ollie :D
I'm running the LED-show (will be MASSIVE!!!!) in the High Contrast area of Trance Energy with Rank 1, Jochen Miller, Judge Jules, etc.
If anyone is going and would like to meet, send me PM.
i am and would love to mate. if i could come see u running the show that would be amazing
i cant wait for it fella :D:D:D:D:D:D
cheers ollie
Just to be clear: I'm not running a lasershow at the High Contrast stage, I'm not even sure if there are lasers on that stage (well.. there SHOULD be lasers:D). I'm running a massive matrix of LED-parcans controlled by DMX there.Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverst14@hotmail.com
You're welcome to visit me at the control-deck at the back of the High Contrast area, just ask for Jeroen.
yes i know. i love all lighting. just love lasers a little more. im buying all kinds of dmx effects at the moment to start a lighting engineering company.
if there is anyone running the lasers at this on here please get in touch as id love to meet u and see how you run the show.
thanks alot Jeroen
ollie
What are you controlling the parcans with mind me asking?Quote:
Originally Posted by JeroenVDV
I'm going there as well. The last few years (this will be my fifth visit to TE :D ) i always saw 'laser-image' jackets running around at the control area.. so it'll probably be Hugo :d I must say the lasers at TE never really impressed me.. except for the hard-stage at 2005:Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverst14@hotmail.com
http://www.djsets.co.uk/Compilations...y/TE2005_1.jpg
Here another shot.
They were lasering against a wall of mirrorballs.. that was one of the most impressive things i've ever seen :)
But for the rest.. I always get frustrated about how lightning, and lasers in particular never really have got anything to do with the music. One should create an environment representing the episodes in music.. during a break, make subtle movements with a colorful lasersky.. and when the beat kicks back in, make the beams rock like a well practiced dancer. Or at least do something synchronized to the beat.. not just a static fan with the scanrate turned up and down :confused:
ok i'll stop now :o
Someone on PL who will be working over there?
Exactly !!Quote:
Originally Posted by SideFX
Doing so adds another dimension to the experience rather than a coherent form of ambient lighting. :D
Jeroen is an employee of visualDMX.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave
So Canvix is my best guess.
Morning!
Just woke up after a 9-hour sleep.. really needed that i guess :)
What a party last night.. absolutely amazing! Too bad a friend of mine was a bit ill.. so we had to leave somewhat earlier than planned..
I visited JeroenVDV at the High Contrast stage were he was operating a nice setup of 2000 RGB-led par cans! Each individually controlled using DMX.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG5byfj4-wk
Here a movie I found showing the lasershow at the main stage (not mine though.. left my camera in the lockers.. :( )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muW0DuNne5E
Just greens as you can see.. but nevertheless amazing to watch! 13 projecters! (if i counted them correctly..)
now for some breakfast..
Nice videos and good work Jereon.
Greens were awesome although for the 1st time the lasers there have worried me. I'm not seeing any dead pixels but the total white out of the sensor on the camera from direct hits was quite worrying especially from near the back of the room.
I was wondering if that may have been the case.. Was looking at that software a while ago - looks pretty cool..Quote:
Originally Posted by -bart-
- 2 Canvix systems (one for the 8 x (9x8) matrices above the floor, one for the 64x16 matrix behind the DJ)Quote:
Originally Posted by dave
- Both systems with R/G/B/grandmaster control via operators' Hog3, VisualTouch for easy pattern-triggering per layer and mask selection
- Tascam US-2400 faderboard for all layer/speed/etc. control
- 23 Art-net universes, 3 Luminex nodes
At the Mainstage were 13 laserprojectors - supplied by Laser Image. Most of them (if not all) were 10W but not running at full power.
Update: Images/text/video added at http://www.canvix.com/gallery
typo: venue in Utrecth, NL.
typo: was helt
Thanks Bart, typos fixed!
hiya all.
i loved the event in utrecht it was stunning. also Jeroen i asked for you at the high contrast stage but no one seemed to know who u were. they didnt understand me i dont think.
iv got a large concern of the power of the lasers used on the main stage.
i wondered into the main stage stunned by the laser show being put on. i decided to get a video but was at the side and didnt look great so i decided to move to the centre of the arena to get the best shot i could.
it was the start of a song and all lightiong cut off. then the lasers came on looking stunning. i was very excited at what they were looking like. best show i have ever seen. everyone around me was also very excited at what they were seeing.
this was untill my camera did something very strange
ill let the video explain futher.
once the video finished processing you should be able to find it here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF98iUd7wN4
if someone with knowledge of why this has happened please let me know. i think its the lasers as the only other time i have seen this was at a rave in russia which cause people to feel ill from the lasers. i understand it was a copper vapor laser at this but as i say i have only seen this happen in this situation before.
to be honest im really unhappy this happened as it shouldnt have done and i want to find out who i should complain to. if its the camera manufacturer or if its laser image (the laser company) or if its id&t (the event organiser)
im extremly suprised that a comapny like laser image would let this happen but if they have then it isnt right and something should be done.
i agree with White-Light totally
iv added some pictures of the camera after it had been broken
cheers ollie
Are you sure the damage is from the lasers? In the movie I see it braking just at the point when those darn strobo's kick in.. damn I really hated those.. flashing in my eyes.. it really gave me a headache. I took some direct hits from the lasers but that didn't bother me as much as the strobos did.Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverst14@hotmail.com
I've been expecting this for years..
Laser power is getting higher and higher on parties, and as you can see at the posted video, there are 13x 10W 532nm lasers (OK, not running at full power) with VERY low divergence (OPSL) scanning the audience from less than 20m distance with very dangerous beam-frames.......
Is there still ANYBODY here thinking there are calculations being done for those shows?
At that same moment the laser-frame changes into a small-beams-frame...Quote:
Originally Posted by SideFX
no im not 100% which is why im asking for if anyone know anything about digital cameras. the only thing i know is that 13 10w lasers is alot of laser power and they were not just at the front. they were all the way down the rigging.
i need some futher advice on why this has happened.
i can say though i filmed other videos with the strobes constantly strobing and the large crowd surges going off and nothing happened. the only time it broke was when the lasers were on. :(
its my opinion that the lasers caused this but if anyone has other theories please tell me. this shouldnt happen and i want to find out who i can blame as to fnd out if my warranty on the camera is valid cause if it aint i want a refund of someone else.
cheers ollie
ps the lasers did look amazing tho
i noticed this too which is why i thought it was the lasersQuote:
Originally Posted by JeroenVDV
by the way really nice parcan setup mate in high contrast. loved the side walls and it spelling out high contrast
ollie
Yeah I also figured it would be to much of a coincidence if was caused by the strobo's..Quote:
Originally Posted by JeroenVDV
This is quite disturbing indeed.. I always thought laser-image, being an ilda member, did all their calculations, and always made _sure_ no harm can be done.. they can't afford a scandal as with the russian 'Aquamarine' incident :)
Maybe you could contact laser-image and show this footage.
From a careful analysis of the damage pattern on your broken sensor and what was being recorded just prior to the failure, it looks like the combination of the strobes and one of the lasers is what killed it. It looks like a patch of the sensor has melted and shorted the substrate to the sensor later.
This doesn't actually mean necessarily that the show was not eye-safe. Human eyes are actually less vulnerable to damage than modern small-chip image sensors (they tend to have less efficient lenses, focussing the light on a larger area, and they are liquid cooled).
Still, it's cause for concern, and I'd want to ask the laser company some serious questions about the eye safety; they have multiple intersecting scans on multi-watt lasers that coincide with massive banks of multi-kW strobes. The luminous flux levels available are difficult to compute but they are doubtless many times higher than the camera was designed to tolerate.
I've attached some images. They are the image immediately before the sensor failed, the image during the failure, and the first image after the failure. In the image before the failure, it is clear that the sensor is being irradiated by almost a complete field of saturated white, indicating that the entire sensor was being heated by the conventional lighting. In the frame where the failure occured, it is clear that there is a locus of disturbance at the position of a particular laser scan head which happens to be swamped in saturated white; some sensor cells have gone dark, indicating that they are no longer charging during the refresh cycle. In the frame after the failure, you can see lines emanating from this position indicating that whole rows and columns are shorted, and a physical insult has occurred to the sensor.
heroic
thank you for your breakdown of what u think happened. i do want to get in touch with them but iv emailed them previously to this and they never got back to me. i was wondering if anyone had a new contact email for them?
i got the hugo@laserimage one
cheers ollie
I believe (not to be rude) that the owners manuals warn of this type of damage. They say that damage may occur due to extreme light.
And im also not sure if the laser company or the production company or the venue, would be financially responsible.
I will say this in defense of lasers, (in the US) It is up to the owner of a device to guard it from harm. You can not sue Disney World because your cell phone was damaged on splash mountain. SO im not sure what Hugo could do for you.
i do understand that keeperx but i dont think its the same at all. iv read the manual and there is nothing about extreme light, and flooding the thing with water is obviously going to damage you camera, pointing it at something and recording is what its designed for and thats exactly how i used it. if id thrown it into some water then its not its intended use but recording is.
i just think that this needs to be brought to the attention of the organisers. if this show was eye safe but not camera safe this really should be posted at the event. i understand laser dangers and should probably have refrained from pointing my camera at it but the rest of the audiance would not have know this and so probably need telling.
i feel this should be posted on signs at the event as to warn people this is a possibility.
this should not be happening. i am going to send it back to the manufacturer and get it repaired but i still want to bring this to the attention of id&t as well as hugo (laser image)
cheers ollie :D
Laser Image is not Hugo. It's a Company with more than one person. Just give them a call, they're way to busy to answer all non-business mails. Phone no is on website.
it would cost me more than the cameras worth. phoning the netherlands is internatinal call rates meaning at least 5x my normal call rate
id prefer to email them if possible
cheers ollie
Well i see where you are coming from now.
I'm not sure what the best way to deal with that is other than post signs at the entrances or hand out safety fliers.
The Venue and production company are the ones in charge of this.. but it IS the laserists job to inform the production company about this danger..
Politics aside, this is an issue that i have seen come up a few times and never seen a absolute resolution or ruling on. Now if i have seen it a few times im sure that it MUST be common as i am barely a laserist at this point, Im still using hobby photons :)
Normally I never question Hugos shows, they always push the limits safely but the Youtube video does appear to see the camera sensor whiting out entirely when taking a direct laser hit. That doesn't look at all safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeroenVDV
In the UK they have to meter the shows to check. I wonder if that was done here?
I just came back from UKLEM having used my camera there directly into Pelosh's 3W spectrum from 20-30 feet and I recorded no problems with the patterns he was running. However, at TE those were pencil beam effects and some that affected the camera appeared to be moving a little slowly. I very much fear looking at the video that not only was MPE exceeded at that show but also the safety margins as well. Cameras usually are the 1st indicators of something thats wrong from what I've seen in the past. However, I'm no expert so wouldn't want to accuse anyone falsely of anything. The video does make me concerned though.
this is the same as me. i dont want to accuse a well respected laserist of causing an unsafe show but this does look a little suspect.
i do hope its just my camera fault but suspect not. i have alot of respect for hugo and have told him do before but im wondering if this show was done by someone else in the company that this person did not have the same eye for safety as hugo does.
i am speaking with ilda at the moment and hope to resolve it.
currently they are saying that its my fault for pointing a camera at it but they are going to keep in touch. (they are not this blunt but i cant type all what they said)
if anyone wants i will forward the email to you.
cheers ollie :D
you can always post it here.. im interested to see how this plays out because this is one of those things that it would be nice to have resolution on.. at least to set a president
No meters at shows like this. Lasers were rigged at moving trusses so safe zones at one moment change to crowd scanning zones within seconds.
Hugo doesnt do all those shows, most shows are even done by other people working for him. Also this show.
this was sent from ilda in reply to my message. iv left the name of the person that sent off the email for legal purposesQuote:
Oliver --
Ah, I have damaged a couple of cameras also, due to laser beams entering the lens and causing burn spots on the sensor. I am genuinely sorry to hear of your situation.
Hugo is often away from The Netherlands, and is sometimes difficult for us to contact. I suspect you are having the same problem; I do not think he is avoiding you. I will send a copy of this to his normal email address, and also a BCC to a private email I have for him. I will ask Hugo to respond to you.
Although you didn't ask, here is my opinion on this issue.
In general, I believe damage to photo sensors is the viewer's responsibility. A laser show is designed for human viewing with the unaided eye. If the show is safe for the eye, then it has met its moral and (I believe) legal responsibility. For example, a person might come to the show with a fast f/2.8 or f/1.4 lens, and put it on a tripod which is at the closest audience distance. The laser show producer should not be expected to know whether or how much the person's lens will concentrate the laser light, or how sensitive the person's sensor is.
Now, I have a couple of "fine points" or details about this.
First, if the laser show producer is doing a show for a client who has video cameras in operation (a TV show, or a corporate show with image magnification), the producer has a responsibility to warn the client not to have the video cameras -- which are often very expensive! -- look directly at the laser beams. The laser show producer would have to work with the client to avoid damage. If you were a client of Hugo then I would perceive the situation differently.
Second, I said "if the show is safe for the eye, it has met its responsibility." I mean this in two ways:
- If the beams in the show have an irradiance which, at the point of closest human access, is below the Maximum Permissible Exposure for the human eye, then the show is inherently safe for the human eye according to international laser safety standards such as IEC 60825 and ANSI Z136.
- The other meaning of "safe" is that the show does not cause any injury, complaint or other user-detectable change to the eye. The laser beams may in fact be above the MPE level. But if no person in the audience has any change in their vision, then the laser has not caused any detriment.
I have written a paper for the 2009 International Laser Safety Conference which discusses this second point. It notes that in 40 years of audience scanning, often at irradiances far beyond the MPE, there have been very, very few reports of injury -- much less actual, proven injuries. (The paper is online at ILDA's website, at http://www.laserist.org/files/audien...rview_2pt1.pdf )
Note that both parts of my second point deal with the human eye, not camera sensors. However, let's say for purposes of discussion that your camera sensor would be fine at a show with beam irradiances under the MPE, but that your camera sensor would be damaged at a show with higher power beams. Let's also say that no one at the higher-power show had any complaint, injury or detectable change. Let's even say that eye doctors came in and examined everyone and did not find any eye damage or change.
My philosophical conclusion has to be the same: The laser show producer is responsible for eye-safe use of the laser. He must have an eye-safe show. However, it is unreasonable to ask him to be responsible for any third-party use of lenses, cameras, etc. which he does not control. There are simply too many variables where the camera can let in a lot more light, or the sensor can be more sensitive than the human eye.
I do appreciate you writing to ILDA, and considering the points I made above. Please let me know if Hugo does not respond within a week or so; I will try to track him down.
cheers ollie :D
I do agree with what was said but still feel that for people who dont know anything about lasers this is not the attitude to have. At large laser shows i feel a warning should be present warning of possible damage from such devices as laser and crowd surges.
im still in talking with ilda and have asked for the mpe calculations and risk assesments.
ill share if the send them which i doubt
cheers ollie
:D
Im not sure you are perceiving this from their perspective Oliver.
You are coming to ilda with accusations of an unsafe show and it is their job to defend the laser display community. You are also bringing these accusations to bear on one of the most well know and respected Laserisits in the world. I think the email is well worded and quiet poignant. They have given their opinion of the issue and offered to assist you in getting ahold of hugo. What were you expecting?
And i also agree that warning signs would be nice..