need RGB parts suggestons

Hello everyone!

newbie here, ive been lurking for some time, but this will be my first post, so take it easy on me:D
my question is: im looking at building my first RGB sytem, ive allready owned a 2.5 watt melles griot projector and finally sold that (boring after a while with only single color).
what do you all recommend as far as the lasers (what would you buy) if:

1. looking for no less than 1 watt per color , so a 3 - 5 watt RGB is my goal.
2. where should i purchase the units, i dont want cheap, but reliable.
3. if you were to build , what components would you use????
4. am i better off just purchasing completed projector,,,,like say a kvant unit? , i mean, is the price just going to be the same if i build versus purchase ?
i think the kvant 3 watt is somewhere in the 19,000 range ... and the kvant 5 watt is , i think ,, 29,000 USD.

thankx for any suggestions,,,,

Hiya Carlos and welcome to PL. Please fill in your location and other info as in this post I'm assuming you're in the USA. :p

Please see my notes in red below

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Originally Posted by carlos3621

Hello everyone!

newbie here, ive been lurking for some time, but this will be my first post, so take it easy on me:D
my question is: im looking at building my first RGB sytem, ive allready owned a 2.5 watt melles griot projector and finally sold that (boring after a while with only single color).
what do you all recommend as far as the lasers (what would you buy) if:

1. looking for no less than 1 watt per color , so a 3 - 5 watt RGB is my goal.
That's quite a big budget you got there :rolleyes:
2. where should i purchase the units, i dont want cheap, but reliable.
Well... the options are limitless... I would certainly suggest talking to Marc (gottalovelasers on here) about the LaserWave modules. He's a great guy and you can read about the advice he's given people ;) LaserWave lasers will give you some of the best support while giving you a very good deal of reliability (as compared to melles and coherent) without breaking the bank.
3. if you were to build , what components would you use????
Me, personally? I used Laserwave... :cool:
4. am i better off just purchasing completed projector,,,,like say a kvant unit? , i mean, is the price just going to be the same if i build versus purchase ?
i think the kvant 3 watt is somewhere in the 19,000 range ... and the kvant 5 watt is , i think ,, 29,000 USD.

About the KVANT units... I can say this... talk to allthatwhichis on here. He has the 1 Watt version and it's a stunning projector. A plus above many others on the KVANT units is they use the 445nm blue, which is very beautiful and has great beamspecs (long distance throw without too much divergence = beautiful graphics). I've seen it and can only say good things about it :eek:

thankx for any suggestions,,,,

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In either case... we're a picture-loving bunch. If you decide to go DIY you'll find tons of help on here from members who have gone through the process (maybe even several times already >:))...

Keep us updated and I'm sure others will chime in soon.

--DDL

Hi Carlos-

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newbie here, ive been lurking for some time, but this will be my first post, so take it easy on me

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Dont worry man. we dont look down on "newbies" here. We encourage as many questions as you can possibly throw out at us.no matter how advanced or trivial you may think the question(s) may be! so, please...ask away!! :)

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ive allready owned a 2.5 watt melles griot projector and finally sold that (boring after a while with only single color).

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Aaaah....the lovely Melles Modules!! :( did yours actually put out stable power? was it "blankable?" i had one myself. drove me INSANE!!!!

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1. looking for no less than 1 watt per color , so a 3 - 5 watt RGB is my goal

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i would do (if this was MY projector):
635nm- 1.5 watts
532nm- 750mW
473nm- 500mW and maybe PBS'd with another 200mW or so maybe.

obviously the blue is lagging in power, but it is SOOOO damn expensive! if you have the budget than i would DEFINITELY suggest ~800mW of blue and even adding in another blue~200-300mW for a total of ~1W or 1.2W of 473. youre getting into some serious monetary funding at this point though. but HOLY CRAP would you have ONE BAD ASS laser!!!! :D

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2. where should i purchase the units, i dont want cheap, but reliable

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"CHEAP" and "LASERS" are NEVER in the same sentence! LOL. (for quality anyway). our LAserWave units are very affordable and are probably arguably the best coming from chinese market now. almost everyone here has one, had one or is in the middle of purchasing one and i dont think there have been any unhappy purchasers. obviously if there were any issues with a defective unit it was handled IMMEDIATELY.

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3. if you were to build , what components would you use????

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LaserWave. :D

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4. am i better off just purchasing completed projector,,,,like say a kvant unit?

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KVANT makes an EXCELLENT projector!! top notch! and
you would love it! HOWEVER, i think you could build it yourself and probably save yourself quite a bit of money and learn a HELL OF A LOT MORE by building it.

i and i think most people here, would urge you to build your own. at least you are realistic in your budget and what to expect for your money!

-Marc

Well Marc,,, the Melles Griot 2.5 watt laser was pricey,, but i purchased that one in 2002. it actuallly was very stable when newish,,,, after 700hrs, it started to drop to 1.7 watt output , i figured it was time to get rid of it,, not to mention it was supposed to do blanking to 5k , but i thought that might be too slow anyways, so i never bothered hooking it up.
the price for that melles in 2002 was 15k !!

i just did some reading on your website,,
about the red.... is there going to be a problem with the beam profile (squarish)
should i go the kvant red instead, since i read somewhere that that red has a nice, tight , round beam ??
the green laserwaves seem like a damn good deal.
the blue,,, if i wanted more power , what other manufacter do you recommend? also , do you know of any pricing?

Thanks

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Originally Posted by carlos3621

i just did some reading on your website,,
about the red.... is there going to be a problem with the beam profile (squarish)
should i go the kvant red instead, since i read somewhere that that red has a nice, tight , round beam ??
Thanks

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You're probably talking about 642nm here. I believe laserwave are doing these now up to 600mw. I'm unsure about the top power from Kvant. Insanity has a Kvant 642nm module and rates it very highly.

As for the blues, (or the other colours for that matter), don't worry if you can't get all of your power from one module. You can always combine modules to increase power. Even some of the "pro" built projectors on here use multiple modules combined with PBS cubes. All it means is a larger case.

I ran your desired power size (5W) through Tockets excellent Chroma tool - a kind of pocket calculator for white balance. The figures I pulled out were as follows:

532 - 1 Watt
642 - 2 Watt
473 - 1.5 Watt

This was the balance result although please note this is a rough guide, its not guaranteed 100% accurate.

I suggest you check the figures yourself before purchasing and obtain other advice as I accept no liability for the accuracy of this. You can download Chroma from this site.

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/8522/balance5w.jpg


I used 642nm red in Chroma as you seem to want the beam specs.

The balance is wavelength specific and doesn't hold true for different wavelenghts. Any change in wavelength will change the balance so need to be recalculated.

As for 445nm vs 473nm mentioned above, it depends on how you like your colour balance. 473 gives a much brighter cyan type colour whereas 445nm gives a darker very deep blue. The figures above are for 473 and would need adjusting for 445nm as 445nm is less visible.

The difference between the two in the projector apart from the obvious diffference between the 2 blues unmixed is 473nm gives very nice bright yellows and punchy colours at that end of the spectrum. 445nm on the other hand tends to give darker less punchy colours at that end but more colours at the pink / violet end of the spectrum. It really is a personal choice as to which is best.

BTW if you really have an endless budget, consider Coherent Taipan OPSL. The colours are amazing and they're also multi watt units. They don't conform to standard wavelengths though so you'd need to recalculate a balance.

They're available in 532, 460 and 577nm:

http://www.coherent.com/Lasers/index...w.page&id=1679

I believe you can hit white balance from just gold, blue and green alone (no red) (according to chroma http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...ead.php?t=7475 - again best to run the figures). However note, OPSL is very expensive.

Hi Carlos,

I have over the last couple of years accrued a number of lasers from different manufacturers.
ALL have their good points and ALL have their bad. Which makes your job that much harder.
One of the key points though is ensure you are dealing with reputable people that will back up their hardware. Some suppliers are suspect in this game.

I have Viasho, CNI, Laserwave,Maxxy red (now gone out of production) Arctos, and Kvant.

The later two are European and are more expensive. BUT are they a whole heap better ?? I am not really sure at this point.
My Kvant is a 640nm 900mw red. It was ordered with a low divergence (like 1.2mrad at 3mm) but then at the last minute I was presented with an email from Kvant asking which of two versions I wanted, one bad one worse.:rolleyes: neither of which kinda lived up to the original spec.
I went for the "fatter" beam (4.5mm) with the so called lower divergence. As for a round beam you need to realise that these are not " A" laser beam but a "collection" of beams in formation. Although in my case its more like a "loose association" of beams. I have one beam that accross the width of my garage is sitting slightly outside the group. It will probably be a mile away in a venue.
I cant say I am thrilled with this particular Kvant product.

I also have an Arctos 445 Blue and although simple in its construct is just damn well pleasing to look at. Its a "BMW" type of construction.... just classy. Even the glue blobs are neat and tidy.

I have found Viasho, CNI and Laserwave all good. At this time I would have to say that LaserWave has an edge in that he (Bridge) is here with us on PL, listens and tries to implement and improve quality.
None are perfect. (perfection seems to be the Holy Grail in this laser game)

What is interesting I believe is that the Chinese stuff is getting ever closer to being world class. Given my Kvant experience and the dollars involved I think keep an eye out for new products from the above manufacturers, they don't yet seem to do 640 red or 445 blue but I am sure its on its way.

Also you could consider what I am doing and combining via a sharp edge dichro the 445 and the 473 blues and mix with green to get a "higher" blue output... I am still in the early stages of this so can't comment yet on final outcomes.

Will be doing a review on Kvant and Arctos along with this "blue" experiment soon as work allows.

Cheers

Ray
NZ

ray-

that was an excellent analysis and unbiased. thank you!! :) im sure it was very informative for carlos too.
im surprised ot hear about the kvant laser. i was under the impression they were the "mercedes" of lasers. i am sure still quite good, but surprised at the divergence you quoted.

again, thanks for the time to explain all that. very good for people to read! :)

-Marc

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Originally Posted by White-Light

473nm gives very nice bright yellows

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Please explain how?

On the projectors I've seen 473nm seems to give brighter colours at that end of the spectrum than 445nm. Conversely 445nm seems to give a better range of violets, pinks and purples at the expense of a little punch at the yellow / orange end.

Obviously the difference comes from mixing cyan rather than deep blue with the red / green. There's also a big difference in luminosity between the two colours.

I think it has more to to with the wavelength of the red TBH ;)

Thanks for all the info,, seems that the more answers i get, the more debated this issue becomes.
o.k. lets just say YOU were building an RGB for yourself, with 3-5 watt output. What components would YOU use and not just wavelengths and powers , but also what brand ?

keep em coming guys, and thanks for the replies

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Originally Posted by carlos3621

Thanks for all the info,, seems that the more answers i get, the more debated this issue becomes.
o.k. lets just say YOU were building an RGB for yourself, with 3-5 watt output. What components would YOU use and not just wavelengths and powers , but also what brand ?

keep em coming guys, and thanks for the replies

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The brands stated above are all reliable units with good support, choice would have to be your a personal choice, we don't want to be upsetting any of our resident supplier friends.:)

Hi,
Just a couple of points to remember..
If you buy "off shore" that's where your warranty is... "offshore". Therefore the normal conditions of warranty are somewhat vague, however one this is for sure you will incur freight costs if needed.
On the other hand it appears you are looking at a significant spend here in dollars.
If it were me I would approach the manufacturers directly as you may qualify for some discount for "bulk" buy.
All of the ones I have listed will deal directly with you. However remember the support issue they are thousands of miles away.

Who would I use ?? no doubt, Arctos... but who owns a bank ??
I have found Bridge of Laserwave very supportive.
You can get the websites from google by brand name.
There are also some very good "retailers" here on PL. like Lasershowparts, One Stop Laser Shop, and a number of "home based" part time retailers. be careful who you pick as you may see some debate at the moment on here. The ones I have listed above are proven good ones there are other good ones too..

Re the 445 vs 473 issue. Do a search here on PL, we discussed this subject in some depth a few months ago. Its not as simple as some say. Europeans rarely use 473 in their laser.. why?? There are technical reasons, I am not an optics expert so some homework on your part may well be worthwhile.
I do know there is a "bump" in the color aspect of the eye at around 445 which helps this. ( I posted a picture of this a while back here on PL)
The purists say it makes better white, others say it makes an Ice blue white.
Hence why I am using both and mixing to suit. Throw in some green by using Pangolin software (my unashamed plug as a Pangolin dealer) and I "should" have the best of both worlds. ( Lets see)

Good luck [popcorn][popcorn]

Ray
NZ

Im waiting for some replies on price quotes for the arctos and kvant units first,,, depending on how expensive they are,, i may just have to place an order with Marc (laserwave) ,



thanx for the feedback ,

If you can afford OPSL's (unlikely from your last post) get OPSL. It delivers some of the most amazing colours at wavelengths no other form of solid state can deliver.

A quick look at video's and pics from "Awakenings" (Netherlands) will convince you. :)

If like most people you are stuck with conventional units, then look to the suggestions above as to good brands.

to: White-Light,

what components are you using for your RGB ?
is that your projector , on your avatar pic?

I would buy a Kvant Spectrum... with the CT6215s. :cool: They go from a half watt to 20W I think... http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...pictureid=1368 I love my 1W. http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...pictureid=1369

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Originally Posted by carlos3621

to: White-Light,

what components are you using for your RGB ?
is that your projector , on your avatar pic?

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Afraid I cheated on that one and got the pic off google. I only have my hands on a cheap RGY. If you want to see the relative colour balance, try some videos. To get you started:

For a multiwatt RGB with what appears to be 473nm blue, try the Ministry Videos:

ftp://plftp:ildaswap@ftp.photonlexicon.com/VIDEOS/Ministry/Best Demo.wmv

(Will take time to buffer). I believe from the colours this is 635nm, 473nm and 532nm but you'd have to ask them to be sure www.ministry.sk The video will probably wow you but don't get distracted by the production, its the colour balance your interested in. Best to watch it to the end as there are some pink / purple mixes towards the end.

For the 445nm option, this is the Kvant 1.4W which All and Pelosh have, I believe it is 635nm, 445nm and 532nm (maybe Pelosh or All will correct me if wrong):

ftp://plftp:ildaswap@ftp.photonlexicon.com/VIDEOS/KVANT demo

The latter file might need you to watch it in BS.Player (a free download - google it) as it is in a proprietary camera format I believe that won't play in Windows Media Player. You might need to click play a few times in BS and be patient as its slow to load. Bets to watch fullscreen as well on both videos.

Apart from the difference in strength, there is a difference in colour balance according to my eyes to different ends of the spectrum. Its all personal preference though as I said elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by p1t8ull

Please explain how?

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You are right Pitt. I stand corrected. Pure Yellow is a mix of red / green so is unaffected by the blue. However, that end of the spectrum seems more muted to me on the mixed colours with 445nm in the mix guess that's more what I meant. I do personally find the yellow a little low on punch on Kvants though. Why that should be I don't know. Can't argue with Kvant quality. Very nice projectors if the colour balance suits you.

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Originally Posted by White-Light

For the 445nm option, this is the Kvant 1.4W which All and Pelosh have, I believe it is 635nm, 445nm and 532nm (maybe Pelosh or All will correct me if wrong):

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The red in those is 642nm...

Mark

SO, THE KVANT 642nm is going to have the better beam quality, than the other red laser modules ??
from what i have researched so far,, this seems to be the consensus?

Any 642 nm red is going to have superior beam quality when compared to a 635 nm red.

Likewise, the 660 nm reds have better beam quality than the 635 nm reds. The problem is that you can't find a 1 watt 660 nm red. (And actually, you'd need a couple watts of 660, because it's so low in the spectrum that it's hard for the eye to see.)

Adam

My personal way of attacking this would be heavy on the green, probably 1.5-2w to be able to call on the extra punch if needed.
The blue would be 1w 445nm as they are direct injection diodes and dont suffer with the modulation and stability problems of blue DPSS lasers. I would go for a module with a single 1w diode rather than 2x 500mW diodes to allow for an easy upgrade or add some 473 at a later date.
The red would be 640nm, maybe you can mix 2 of the 900mW 640nm Kvant modules for 1.8w... they can tell you if this is possible

WHO SELLS THE BLUE 1 WATT 445nm DIRECT INJECTION DIODES?
I THINK I MIGHT GO WITH THE KVANT RED 642nm 1.2W

You might consider RGB laser systems as well.
They have a 1W 445nm blue and a 1.6W 640nm red, when mixed with 1W green
you have a nice white.

thanks for that tip ABSOLUTE.

Heres what im leaning towards now:
Kvant 1.8 W 640nm red
Kvant 2.0 W 445nm blue
Laserwave 2.0 w 532nm green..

what do you all think about this setup?

im still waiting for pricing on 642nm red, but this setup should yield approx 6 watts,, and i might be able to get it done within my budget.

Pelosh,, could you please send me a price on the 642nm 1.8 W red module ? i cant seem to find the price anywhere for that particular module.

thanks all for the suggestions....

You need to up the red to 3 watts to achieve perfect white balance with that mix. You can still achieve white with those figures, but its on the green / blue side of white balance if full power is used.

Alternatively you can just scale back the green in the software to achieve perfect white but then on white and some other colour mixes you've probably got some green going unused as its not running full power, so your 5.8W projector won't actually ever be running 5.8w's.

If 3 watts red is too expensive, your other option would be to keep the red at 1.8 watts and scale down the green in size. It all depends on how much green you want to use if you use green on its own. If you're prefer to have lots of green for use on its own and are not bothered a little is going to waste most of the time, then 2 watts of green will work fine and by scaling it back when not using green alone, you should be able to get perfect white.

BTW the scanners in the Kvant are about the best you can buy. If you decide to build yourself and want to do graphics as well as beam shows then genuine Cambridge Scanners are the dogs.

I should be able to scale back the green output within Pangolin, for graphics / color projections.
but i would like to have the 2 watts at full power, for beams only. and also, the green is the most inexpensive anyways, so i figured i should get the extra power , just in case.

I agree with you on the scanners , ive owned the cambridge / eyemagic / and medialas microamps...
i will definately go with the cambridge, and cambridge drivers! :)

Maybe a IRIS colorsafe (eye-magic) would be an option?
Then you can use perfect white for graphics and all colors on max power for beams.
As addition you have a safety circuit built in.