intellectual property and copyrights

It has been brought to my attention that some of the designs that exist on PL have been observed by certain companies and commercially re-produced, sold or are in production.

I want to point out that what you might find friendly now by publishing technical know-how and details to be a friendly act and yes it's friendly, might prove later to be a foolish disclosure.

As long as you publish the details, you are giving away details freely with no possibility to claim intellectual property right later, for something that could have significant commercial values and with this you get nothing for your time and efforts. A company that uses your ideas and designs for sure will not be back later to hand out royalties.

So take care what details you give and who you give those details too.

It takes us years to develop stuff and 1 hour for a connected company to bring into production and then clain the design.

I am looking further into this and will report all details to ILDA and any effected PL members.

Please do not comment or ask for details as I do not want to start a major descussion untill all the details are 100% known and I will continue as more details arrive.

Andy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyf97

....Please do not comment or ask for details.........

---

Whenever I don't want people to comment or discuss anything I always post on a public forum too. :rolleyes:

This should be interesting...

mmm.. The fact that you posted that post could conceivably have irreparable consequences here, depending in how this pans out. Forums like this should be a valuable resource and a way to share ideas among hobbyists, but if everyone is scared of having their ideas commercialized then sharing ideas might be a thing of the past.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would never post an idea, schematic, or diagram here if I hadn't intended it to become part of the public domain. Any concepts that are destined for commercial use, or any concepts that are intended to be private should be shared via PM rather than posted in the main forum.

Don't get me wrong, I understand and respect what you're trying to do, but if we can't share ideas here for fear of commercialization then what's the point? I've got AIM and facebook if I just want to talk to people.

Oh please, tell me where to stand in line for you to sell me something that couldn't stand up to a patent challenge 40 years ago...

Well my research started with R-E of a new laser. Needless to say it didn't work after the exploration. I managed to destroy the crystal set in removing the optics section from the pump diode. After few years of soaking up Sam's Faq's and a lot of personal testing and reading I have found a few things that some may know of......or may not. I like the challenge of the red and 473 laser. You say a red is nothing......then build me a 1 watt 660nm with good beam specs.....and by the way you design the layout, machine the parts, calculate the optics with software you purchased, and finally produce a working laser good enough to put into projector duty. Some have went way beyond this point here on PL. Hat's off to you! Then the lessons learned become worth a good bit. I like 473's but it costs less to buy than build....at least build one. There is a LOT to be explored here. I spent over a year with it and too much money on it. It worked though....not well but it worked. I was satisfied with that. It provided a need to learn and make mistakes along the way...some costly. Understanding the fundamentals of it is priceless. The reds I am trying to get finished have been a challenge....but now the things I have learned will enable me to make them smaller and more powerful. But it is not anything that someone ...somewhere has not already dealt with. So the lid stays on and all we enjoy is the lovely red beam. And that's the way it will be. How many Manu's will share optics details and procedures? Most will eventually say that you can buy one and see for yourself....see top of post. Not a rant...just a bad day.

Ha! That's life! I had two and a half years of hard work stolen and used to compete with me and my business in less than a week. The competition doesn't piss me off nearly as much as people who cannot come up with an original idea or developing from scratch. They just plagiarized my work and even left in stuff that was useless to them because they didn't know what it did. :D

Move on, start all over. That's what I did. Karma has a way of dealing with people like that. :)

maybe we could attach an open source license disclaimer to each of our threads exposing personal developments, in order to prevent that?

do open source licenses exist that would cover such things and protect us?

The Sky is falling..... The Sky is falling.....

It has happened in the past and will happen in the future....
Change any part of an idea and it is a new idea...

If you think that there is a potential to make money on your idea...
then keep it to yourself and produce it... or sell the idea...

If you just want to share your idea to get recognition and kudos...
(because taking it further is too much work or trouble)...
then don't cry if someone uses/modifies "your idea" and markets it...

Do you really think our LaserBee I products were the first LPMs that
use a Thermopile and MCU.... Robin's Die4Thing LPM is another example...

We just modified a basic idea and added our own ingenuity and expertise
to produce something that seems to be a copy of products that already
exist...


Just my http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-forum/2c.gif


Jerry

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lasersbee

If you think that there is a potential to make money on your idea...
then keep it to yourself and produce it...
or sell the idea...

If you just want to share your idea to get recognition and kudos...
(because taking it further is too much work or trouble)...
then don't cry if someone uses/modifies "your idea" and markets it.

---

Exactly.

If you post it here and some company takes your idea and commercializes it, well, you should be flattered. But if you wanted money for the idea, you shouldn't have posted it here in the first place.

There's no worry over another company patenting your idea, since by posting it here it immediately qualifies as both prior art AND public domain.

I really don't see what the fuss is all about, and without further details from Andy I don't see how we can even discuss it.

Andy? Care to add anything here?

Adam

Probbably not a ILDA member:

Section 3. Statement of Code of Ethics

• No member will knowingly take or receive credit for work done by another member or, through inaction, knowingly allow an incorrect credit to persist

Does it have anything to do with this???

• Three complaints against Scanergy of Budapest, Hungary. The complaints were filed independntly by three companies: Lasertainment Productions, Dynascan, and Laserlight Showdesign. Note that the Hungarian company "GT Laser" may also be linked to Scanergy. [Added to this list August 2009]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mccarrot

Section 3. Statement of Code of Ethics

• No member will knowingly take or receive credit for work done by another member or, through inaction, knowingly allow an incorrect credit to persist

---

I don't think that applies to anything posted publicly on a web forum... Posting in public is essentially placing the idea into the public domain.

Are you saying that if a company uses an idea posted here in a commercial product, they must mention that the idea came from the public domain? Because that's not how I read the ILDA Code of Ethics. (And yes, I am a member.)

Adam

When I post here, anything that I post is free, has always been free, and will continue to be free.

When I have stuff that I want to sell for money, I'll stop posting it in a hobby forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

When I post here, anything that I post is free, has always been free, and will continue to be free.

When I have stuff that I want to sell for money, I'll stop posting it in a hobby forum.

---

I doubt this is true,

If you post a new idea on this forum, someone reads it and get a pattent on your idea. I think it's not fee anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mccarrot

I doubt this is true,

If you post a new idea on this forum, someone reads it and get a pattent on your idea. I think it's not fee anymore.

---

if he posted it here it constitutes prior art, so nobody can patent it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by buffo

Exactly.

If you post it here and some company takes your idea and commercializes it, well, you should be flattered. But if you wanted money for the idea, you shouldn't have posted it here in the first place.

There's no worry over another company patenting your idea, since by posting it here it immediately qualifies as both prior art AND public domain.

I really don't see what the fuss is all about, and without further details from Andy I don't see how we can even discuss it.

Andy? Care to add anything here?

Adam

---

Adam, I am away on a kind of business trip mixed with a short vacation, just noticed the topic has expanded a bit. I expect to have further details to post on my return to our office and see the product in question.

I don't understand (english not native language)

So you mean everything I post on a public forum can not be patented anymore?

Could you clarify it a little bit more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mccarrot

So you mean everything I post on a public forum can not be patented anymore?

---

Theoretically, yes. If you publicly disclose an original idea, then nobody can patent it.

except you, within a 1 year time limit.

Well, duh! you can't patent novels. STUPID!:D:D:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mccarrot

I don't understand (english not native language)

So you mean everything I post on a public forum can not be patented anymore?

Could you clarify it a little bit more.

---

By posting about a new idea in public, you are releasing the idea to the public. This constitutes "prior art", which is one of the conditions under which a patent can be denied. Prior art means that someone has already done the same thing that you are trying to patent. If you post your idea, it is evidence of prior art, and thus no one else can patent the idea from that point on.

Note that *you* can still patent the idea for a short period after you make your public announcement. (Andrew mentioned a 1 year period, though I thought it was shorter than that. But I am not a patent lawyer.) Nevertheless, because it is your idea, prior art doesn't apply to you. (Since the prior art is yours to begin with.) But no one else can steal your idea and patent it out from under you once you've made the public post.

Hope this helps!

Adam

In the UK if you document your design, seal it properly in an envelope and mail it to yourself; the official dated postmark on the un opened sealed envelope counts as proof in court.

I have a patent pending right now, I was told that any disclosure of the information without a written non disclosure agreement makes the information public knowledge. I was told that once an idea has been documented and notarized officially, it is evidence in court.

Apparently once the patent application has been sent into the PTO, it is considered protected and can be disclosed without a NDA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by soforene

Whenever I don't want people to comment or discuss anything I always post on a public forum too. :rolleyes:

---

LMFAO @ soforene! :D