6x 405nm diode testing

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09-27-2009, 07:50
andy_con

6x 405nm diode testing

got myself a 6x diode from here for some testing -

http://www.o-like.com/b2b_cpinfo.asp?id=1053

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x..._0032Large.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x..._0031Large.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x..._0033Large.jpg

the results so far - this is with heat sink only NO tec. as you can see from the pic's the thermometer is attached to the top of the diode block

start -

145ma
152mw
22.5deg's

30mins

152mw
25.2deg's

1 hour

152mw
25.6deg's

Now i know from previous diode testing that if the mw’s hasnt dropped for a whole hour the diode can handle this power without any problems. So turned it up to 200mw’s.

180ma
200mw
25.6deg's

1.5hours

198mw
27.5deg's

2.5hours

197mw
27.8deg's

3 hours

197mw
28deg's

will update later
09-27-2009, 12:06
SpyroS

Awesome test andy. Let us know how it goes. Wouldn't mind building a dual setup with these diodes. Where did you buy your powermeter from?
09-27-2009, 12:14
andy_con

been going 7.5 hours and still 199mw and 27.8deg's

power meter is from robin - die4laser
09-27-2009, 14:23
Doc

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyroS

Awesome test andy. Let us know how it goes. Wouldn't mind building a dual setup with these diodes. Where did you buy your powermeter from?

Looks like a laserbee.
09-27-2009, 17:45
MisterWilling

Lens?

Is that an acrylic lens? Do you have an AR coated glass lens to test the power output? I'm thinking it could be around 250mW with a glass lens.
09-27-2009, 19:25
sugeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterWilling

Is that an acrylic lens? Do you have an AR coated glass lens to test the power output? I'm thinking it could be around 250mW with a glass lens.

That doesn't matter too much, compared to stability. I am looking forward to more results.
09-27-2009, 19:56
dave

Andy, I reckon you need to invest in a nice desk to work at - every pic from you seems to be taken on the floor! ;)
09-27-2009, 21:09
300EVIL

Very nice review. Please keep us updated. I am interested in adding 400mW of 405 to my projector.
09-27-2009, 23:52
andy_con

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave

Andy, I reckon you need to invest in a nice desk to work at - every pic from you seems to be taken on the floor! ;)

my desk is filled with crap ;)

Quote:

Very nice review. Please keep us updated. I am interested in adding 400mW of 405 to my projector.

how it ended

8.5hours

199mw
27.8degs

so it seems the diode is mega stable
09-28-2009, 00:06
Psi

you're not going to try 250mW? :)
09-28-2009, 02:08
SpyroS

I'm sure you could push it to 300mw stable with a TEC cooler.
09-28-2009, 05:02
andy_con

i might try 250mw later in the week when i get time
10-01-2009, 13:29
hobbybob

What's the dimensions of the ally block the diode is fitted in ?
How big is the hole ? And how big is the ring around the diode housing ?
Is it threaded ?

I ask this because i am into the same kind of experiments and would like to know.
I have ally blocks, but when i see these pics they might be too big (or to be used with 2 diodes ;-))))

The insulation was needed because the diodes are case positive right ?
So when the outside touches the earth there runs full power through the diodes ?
10-01-2009, 13:34
andy_con

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobbybob

What's the dimensions of the ally block the diode is fitted in ?
How big is the hole ? And how big is the ring around the diode housing ?
Is it threaded ?

I ask this because i am into the same kind of experiments and would like to know.
I have ally blocks, but when i see these pics they might be too big (or to be used with 2 diodes ;-))))

The insulation was needed because the diodes are case positive right ?
So when the outside touches the earth there runs full power through the diodes ?

alum block - 20mm x 20mm x 10mm

hole 14mm

12mm aixiz housing/case

not threaded.

indeed the diode is case positive, but the thremal heat sink compound solves this problem
10-01-2009, 13:36
hobbybob

And the trick to mount the diode housing with the thermal compound ?
What jig do you use to keep it in place ?
Will you first mount the diode housing and THEN put in a diode , or do you fit housing and when thermal compound hardens you mount the diode ?
And what type of thermal compound ? does it harden ? And still conduct ?
If i see correctly Is there a hole in the top , where you put in the compound ?
10-01-2009, 13:47
andy_con

ops let me fine some details
10-01-2009, 14:47
andy_con

this method was developed by simon, i have just adapted it to suit my needs. i know simon and dave both have access to a mill etc...

i dont, so had to come up with my own way. both simon and dave do it slightly different to me.

first a few important tools -

thermal bonding kit -
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=1558320

syringe - i cut mine in half, the reason for this
1 - so i can mix the thermal paste directly inside
2 - so i can clean the syrine and reuse it

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x..._0061Large.jpg

a block of aluminium 10mm thick

im using an aixiz case which is 12mm wide. i drilled a 14mm hole with a hole in the top of the block to inject the paste

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x..._0040Large.jpg

next due to a lack of a mill i had my own custom sleeve made. it has a small lip on it so that it holds the aixiz case centered in the 14mm hole. it also seals one end of the 14mm hole, to stop the paste coming out and forcing it around the aixiz case.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...al%20red/2.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...al%20red/3.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...al%20red/1.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...al%20red/4.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...al%20red/5.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...al%20red/6.jpg

i then clamp it all down and start injecting the paste

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...al%20red/7.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...al%20red/8.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...al%20red/9.jpg

the pics above were from the very first time i did this and it was a little messy. i have since revised my methdos slightly which produces a much much better finish and alot less mess.

all i did was get new slightly different sleeves made

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x..._0053Large.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x..._0055Large.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x..._0057Large.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x..._0058Large.jpg
10-02-2009, 00:34
RedlumX

Hi, why having an extra sleeve and a 14mm hole? I just put the Aixiz tube into a 12mm dia hole in an alu block, with some thermal compound around and pressed on firmly by a screw. The thermal contact is good enough, the temperature difference between Aixiz tube and the outer block is minimal (I checked but forgot the precise data).
10-02-2009, 03:32
andy_con

cos the idea of the above is to insulate the diode.

putting a 12mm aixiz casing into a 12mm hole wont work for more than one diode
10-02-2009, 06:08
chad

Andy, perhapse you should reprhase that.

The material is there to 'isolate' the two diodes and drivers electrically.
Aswell as provide thermal conduction.
Chad.
10-02-2009, 07:04
andy_con

least someone knew what i meant ;)
10-02-2009, 08:18
MisterWilling

The diode was probably all ready outputting close to 250mW all ready, it was just metering less because of the loss of the acrylic lens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy_con

i might try 250mw later in the week when i get time
10-20-2009, 10:36
hobbybob

After having tried to make a dual red setup myself this weekend i ask myself how much the offset is between the height of the holes. It seems that one hole is higher then the other one ? How much mm is this ?
10-20-2009, 11:03
andy_con

if you are making just a dual red then the holes should be at the same height. mine were off as it was more of a test unit and i didnt spend time measuring things properly.

but height can be correct with adjustable mirror mounts
10-21-2009, 04:47
shrad

anyway, you may reproduce the same offset inversed to obtain mounts for a quad-red setup, mounts being face to face
10-21-2009, 08:16
RedlumX

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy_con

cos the idea of the above is to insulate the diode.

putting a 12mm aixiz casing into a 12mm hole wont work for more than one diode

Ehm? Of course it does...
10-21-2009, 08:21
andy_con

but they wont be insulated...
10-21-2009, 08:25
RedlumX

Why should it matter? Well I am teasing... what I meant is if you use a decent driver with the diodes against ground, all this mechanical work is not necessary. And electrically it is much safer, having diodes floating invites for trouble and should be avoided by all means.
10-21-2009, 09:42
andy_con

i disagree, ive had a few set ups with red diodes touching and they blow so so easily.

also with then all touching you can adjust the power of each diode.

insulating them means its very hard to blow a diode and the power of each diode can be adjusted.
10-21-2009, 09:54
RedlumX

Well.. of course each diode can be driven separately, while all their cases are at common ground minus... but never mind...
10-21-2009, 10:26
andy_con

what do you know that i dont about red diodes then?

why is it on my previous setups that when the diodes were mounted in one block all touching, adjusting one driver changed all the diodes?
10-21-2009, 10:57
badger1666

hi
anyone on here as far as i am aware, when they have built homemade laser setup
always isolate diodes from ground ya think with that many people doing it there is proberly a good reason for it, do some research and see what you come up with ;)
10-21-2009, 11:14
Laserman532

for a good time click here:

http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...rklight+series
10-21-2009, 11:38
andy_con

thanks guys .
10-21-2009, 12:10
RedlumX

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy_con

what do you know that i dont about red diodes then?

why is it on my previous setups that when the diodes were mounted in one block all touching, adjusting one driver changed all the diodes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by badger1666

hi
anyone on here as far as i am aware, when they have built homemade laser setup
always isolate diodes from ground ya think with that many people doing it there is proberly a good reason for it, do some research and see what you come up with ;)

I mean to connect all the diode cases, the cathodes, to negative ground. And each anode goes to a separate driver, so you can control each diode separately (one may also put a small resistor of a few ohms in series to each diode and have them controlled by one single driver).

Obviously that won't work for the drivers that people often use here, where the anode of the diode goes to the plus supply; eg the die4drive. That's why I said with a decent driver that has the diode connected to ground, all this insulating effort can be avoided.

It is a much safer way to do, because otherwise the briefest short of the insulated case towards ground immediately kills the diode. There is even the phenomenon that the diode can be killed simply by having too a large capacitance of the insulated case against ground. I don't want to know how many diodes died because of this setup. I just wonder why ppl continue to build drivers that way....
10-21-2009, 12:32
badger1666

what

it works better the way we do it we are not going to all this trouble for nothing there is a valid reason they build the drivers like this and i am no electronics expert so i cant say why but i am sure are resident expert could chime in and explain it all robin or dr lava care to help out here ;)
10-21-2009, 13:07
drlava

Red, I have te utmost repect for you but in this case, I think you're confusing 'decent driver' with 'different type' of driver. For Anode case diodes, which are the majority of IR diodes, a cathode modulator type driver makes the most sense for safety and speed. This is why there is this class of driver. For case neutral diodes like most 405nm diodes, either cathode or anode drivers work fine. For red 5.6mm can diodes (cathode case), an anode driver makes the most sense, but properly isolating the diode and using a cathode driver works as well. It just so happens that cathode drivers are readily available and inexpensive, so many people choose to use them (myself included) to drive red diodes.

There will probably be pre-built anode drivers redaily available and inexpensive before too long, and there are even plans on the forum to build one. But until then, insulating works well and with the method shown capacitance is a non-issue.
10-21-2009, 22:50
RedlumX

Quote:

Originally Posted by drlava

R I think you're confusing 'decent driver' with 'different type' of driver.

Allright, agreed ;-) I myself happen to have bad experiences with red diodes on the Thorlabs LD1255 driver, which drives the cathode, and no issues with the other kind of drivers.
10-27-2009, 08:04
Stoney3K

Quote:

Originally Posted by drlava

There will probably be pre-built anode drivers redaily available and inexpensive before too long, and there are even plans on the forum to build one. But until then, insulating works well and with the method shown capacitance is a non-issue.

Still, that wouldn't be a task that's too difficult, right? Change out the N-type driver MOSFET for a P-type and invert the signal coming from the (normally cathode-type) driver circuit. Basically just turn the entire power totem pole upside down.

You're still going to need to insulate the diode heat sinks from the equipment ground, though.
11-03-2009, 02:43
flecom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoney3K

You're still going to need to insulate the diode heat sinks from the equipment ground, though.

use a separate PSU that doesn't tie the DC ground to the AC ground
11-04-2009, 13:49
andy_con

got it off to a fine art now, measuring only 35mm by 10mm by 18mm

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...4112009901.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...4112009902.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...4112009903.jpg
11-04-2009, 15:25
Laserman532

I am sorry guys...but I do NOT like the epoxy idea at all.>:)

The chances of you getting your diodes pressed into the mount at 90 degrees with respect to each other or worse yet...pressed in horizontal or vertical with respect to the orientation of the PBS cube has very little chance of great success.

It takes only a very small angular rotation of the polarization to loose huge copious amounts of power when combining in a PBS

Now if the aixiz rotates inside the epoxy then...nevermind...:o

I have watched this thread and cringe every time I see that epoxy.

boy...that is a load off my chest:D
11-05-2009, 03:36
andy_con

well im gona disagree :)

im yet to have an issue with pressing the diodes in at the right angle. providing you dont rush and do it properly its fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laserman532

I am sorry guys...but I do NOT like the epoxy idea at all.>:)

The chances of you getting your diodes pressed into the mount at 90 degrees with respect to each other or worse yet...pressed in horizontal or vertical with respect to the orientation of the PBS cube has very little chance of great success.

It takes only a very small angular rotation of the polarization to loose huge copious amounts of power when combining in a PBS

Now if the aixiz rotates inside the epoxy then...nevermind...:o

I have watched this thread and cringe every time I see that epoxy.

boy...that is a load off my chest:D
11-05-2009, 05:04
p1t8ull

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laserman532

I am sorry guys...but I do NOT like the epoxy idea

There's no pleasing some people.. he scorns copycats so should be over the moon when someone tries a different method :p:D

I do know what you're saying and it is the only shortfall, but with careful LD insertion or (as I did) a purpose made insertionmajig, this method does work very well
11-05-2009, 07:38
Laserman532

must be a language barrier...anyway...

if the technique is 100% reliable and 100% repeatable then it works for you.

My point is valid. Your epoxy method does not allow one to take a running polarized diode and rotate it while watching a power meter for maximum transmission (thru the PBS) or in the other axis rotate it for maximum reflection. For optimum performance every time. You cant argue facts.

your epoxy method is functional yet not optimum and too many variables left up to chance IMHO

what the hell, if it works for you...go for it!

In reference to copycats...I was talking about people taking someone's design and making copies instead of tossing the guy who invented it (i think chad) a few bucks. If one makes changes that improves functionality, features or vast price reductions then those would be improvements. But if one just makes copies to avoid slipping the inventor a few bucks just seems a tad unethical.

EDIT: I correct myself...it was dave who has the mounts everyone is copying http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...114#post113114

Doesn't affect me one way or the other.
11-05-2009, 08:44
ElektroFreak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laserman532

My point is valid. Your epoxy method does not allow one to take a running polarized diode and rotate it while watching a power meter for maximum transmission (thru the PBS) or in the other axis rotate it for maximum reflection. For optimum performance every time. You cant argue facts.

I would agree with that.. the diodes should be able to be rotated. You'll get pretty close just by observing the fast axis of each diode, but fine tuning it would require being able to rotate.
11-05-2009, 08:59
Laserman532

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElektroFreak

I would agree with that.. the diodes should be able to be rotated. You'll get pretty close just by observing the fast axis of each diode, but fine tuning it would require being able to rotate.

*falling over on floor* :)
11-05-2009, 09:37
ElektroFreak

^hey, when you're right you're right.
11-05-2009, 10:18
tocket

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laserman532

must be a language barrier...anyway...

if the technique is 100% reliable and 100% repeatable then it works for you.

My point is valid. Your epoxy method does not allow one to take a running polarized diode and rotate it while watching a power meter for maximum transmission (thru the PBS) or in the other axis rotate it for maximum reflection. For optimum performance every time. You cant argue facts.

your epoxy method is functional yet not optimum and too many variables left up to chance IMHO

what the hell, if it works for you...go for it!

In reference to copycats...I was talking about people taking someone's design and making copies instead of tossing the guy who invented it (i think chad) a few bucks. If one makes changes that improves functionality, features or vast price reductions then those would be improvements. But if one just makes copies to avoid slipping the inventor a few bucks just seems a tad unethical.

EDIT: I correct myself...it was dave who has the mounts everyone is copying http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...114#post113114

Doesn't affect me one way or the other.

Are you sure dave is the one who made them first? I have a picture of one dating back to february 2008 and I'm pretty sure it didn't come from dave.
11-05-2009, 10:31
Laserman532

Quote:

Originally Posted by tocket

Are you sure dave is the one who made them first? I have a picture of one dating back to february 2008 and I'm pretty sure it didn't come from dave.

no i am not positive who made them first...but then again...that was not my point

after reading a few threads "dave" even sent the file to have others make them. so it appears if he invented it...he dosnt care...if he doesnt care...i dont care...

it appears "chad" is making some...if it is public domain ...shit I'll buy some
I am waiting for chad to post a price.

Do you know who invented it? It is a real cute design and appears to be functional in brass, aluminum is not as nice, functional...but not as nice a brass IMHO

Anyway I want to see how the extinction ratio turns out when pressing diodes into epoxied mounts...that is my real interest in this thread.

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