USB Scannersafety

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10-29-2009, 11:56
mccarrot

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USB Scannersafety

This groupbuy is for a USB programmable scanner safety

This scanfail is one of the fastest an affordable scanfails I could find, and got the option to connect a LCD to readout the status.

The scannersafety is adjustable to react between the 2 and 20ms and got 6 optocoupler outputs for all your colors and/or the shutter.

With the supplied software you can easily setup the not protected zone so you can still use static beams for your bouncemirrors.

The price normal is arround 150 euro exclusive the LCD.

the manufacturer is willing to drop the price to 115 euro when I order more than 8 pcs.

This price is ex. any shipping costs and ex. display

LCD Blue 2x20 Char 25 Euro
GLCD Blue 65 Euro

This groupbuy will be a NON profit group buy, but the above mentioned price can increasy a little bit to cover any shipping and package costs.

please let me know if you are interested.
10-29-2009, 13:44
buffo

Do they offer an English version of their programming software? What about the user's manual?

What is the difference between the two LCD screens?

Adam
10-29-2009, 14:08
SrS

Probably the LCD is text only and the GLCD can also show graphics.
10-29-2009, 22:52
Things

Yeah, GLCD stands for Graphic LCD, such as these: http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?ma...roducts_id=188

I just bought one of those to use with my new Arduino :D

This is a pretty cool little board, something I would want to add to my projector eventually.
10-30-2009, 00:38
greenalien

This looks like just what I've been waiting for, so I'll have 3 boards please. That means we just need 5 more...

(I'm not really interested in the add-on displays at the moment)
10-30-2009, 02:17
-bart-

I'll have one too, please.
10-30-2009, 06:20
mccarrot

It's not a problem to make the software English, and I will work together with the manufacturer for the translations.

If we sell enough can also translate the manual, but I dont want to translate the manual for one person. also google translate can be your firend.

One warning from the manufacturer, no other displays are supported because of the many different chips and the software is writing data into the displays. Using your own display could even damage the scanfail.

Shipping within Europe will cost 15 euro, shipping outside Europe will cost 25 euro. All shippings are insured and are traceable.
10-30-2009, 06:38
greenalien

Is the add-on display essential to the function of the scan-fail, or is it optional?
10-30-2009, 07:05
mccarrot

the Safety also runs without a display.
Then the basic setup is done via the PC.
10-30-2009, 08:15
buffo

Ouch! I just checked the exchange rates. The Euro has really gained against the dollar since the last time I checked... (OK - it's been a while. Sue me for not keeping up with the times!)

At today's rates, the basic unit (no display) would be around $210 with shipping to the US. (I was hoping it would be more like $140.)

It's still a good deal, but I gotta think about it before I commit.

Adam
10-30-2009, 08:38
FourDee

Ah yes! These are good times to be in europe and buy stuff in dollars. :D
Try exporting though ... :rolleyes:
10-30-2009, 09:38
aclasers

i would be interested in 3 of these if its all in english,

just been to the web address and there is another model, do you know what the difference is?

http://www.laser-safety.de/Safety_V2.pdf
10-30-2009, 10:54
Gento

http://www.laser-safety.de/User_manual_Safety_v2.pdf V2 english Manual

V2 :
RS232
8 Chanel
LCD 2x20

Safety USB:
USB
6 Chanel
No LCD / LCD 2x20 / GLCD 128x64
10-30-2009, 11:04
Gento

http://www.laser-safety.de/USB/Boot.jpg
Boot

http://www.laser-safety.de/USB/Run.jpg
Aktiv

Safety USB with GLCD

Gento
10-30-2009, 13:51
drlava

this is an excellent project, very tempting! but surely the LCD can be found for less.. what is the model?
10-30-2009, 14:15
laserpaul

looking for a USB interface for Full Auto from New Method

Anyone out there have a USB interface box they are willing to sell for the Full auto systems from One Stop Laser Shop? I have the key but missing the interface
laserpaul@yahoo.com
10-30-2009, 14:20
Gento

Quote:

Originally Posted by drlava

the LCD can be found for less.. what is the model?

Safety without LCD/GLCD
Software of the Safety without LCD/GLCD.

Gento
10-30-2009, 14:28
drlava

Ok, good clarification. So those who purchase this without the LCD cannot add an LCD without another payment for a software upgrade also.
10-30-2009, 14:50
Gento

Update is possible by Bootloader straight.
Every Safety has a unique number for the purpose.
But only in connection with my LCD.
Security tolerates no games.

Gento
10-31-2009, 00:53
greenalien

Thanks for explaining, if they don't need the LCD then I'm still in for 3 boards, no LCDs please.
(The LCDs are a nice touch, but as my projector is usually mounted remotely it wouldn't be accessible or visible during normal operation, and I'm happy to do the setup via USB on a PC)
10-31-2009, 10:57
laserpaul

hmm, not sure if I got my message out there

thanks for the replies guys, but not sure if this is meant for me. I am looking for a USB intereface from ONe Stop for the NML Full Auto program and not sure where this LCD screen comes into it. None exists. But thanks for the reply. If you know of anyone with a interface box, I would be interesed in buying it.
thanks
10-31-2009, 12:11
-bart-

Yes, Paul you ARE hijacking this thread, if people got what you're looking for they'll gladly reply in your thread. >:)
10-31-2009, 13:24
hobbybob

Count me in also for one safetyboard. I am not really sure how to operate this, but i will visit McCarrot soon and then i'll ask ;-)
10-31-2009, 16:53
mccarrot

Thanks all, we are at 6 scanfails. Only 2 to go and we have a go!

The system is rather simple, you one time only adjust your galvos feedack signal with the potmeters on the scanfail and the system will shut off the laser in case one of the galvo's stoped working, or you have a dangerous (static) beam in a show.

If you want to use static beams above the audiance you can use the software to draw a area where the scanfail will not shut off the lasers. so you can still shoot static beams at mirror and have the audiance safe for static beams.

The best way is to connect the board to you R G and B system to shut off the lasers because this is the fastest way. A shutter always need a few ms to shut off the beam, but its also good to have a shutter as backup, and to connect you emergency stop to so you can warm-up your lasers with the shutter closed.

Damn that graphic LCD looks cool :cool:. but the price...:(
11-01-2009, 00:59
jmilan

count me in for one....

thanks.
11-01-2009, 09:38
Insanity

I would be interested in one of these with the LCD display for the moment, my RGBB has two blue channels. I assume the 6 outputs will accomodate this?

Will there be another opportunity to get these prices? I would like to test one in the first instance and depending on the outcome get another two at a later date.

Cheers
Mark
11-01-2009, 09:57
mccarrot

Hi Insanity,

this price is for 8 or more, so in a while we can do another group buy and hope we get up to the 8pcs again to get this price.

If it works like charm I want two more in my RGB's also.

Can everyone make clear IF they want a LCD and what model, thank you.
11-01-2009, 11:12
edison

I,m really concidering one but i want to know if you build one in each of my projector i can read out the settings with one display? If this is not the case i would go for the one without the display. I want the usb version only i,m not sure if i need the standard display.
11-02-2009, 07:09
edison

after debating with myself i decided to buy one. I simply can,t forgive my self if i sell my projector and someone in the crowd looses eyesight because of me saving 115 euro,s. So count me in for one only without the display.
11-02-2009, 08:50
drlava

assuming a beam diameter of 1cm^2, what is the maximum laser power that this device can safely blank before eye damage occurrs?
11-02-2009, 09:56
mccarrot

Quote:

Originally Posted by drlava

assuming a beam diameter of 1cm^2, what is the maximum laser power that this device can safely blank before eye damage occurrs?

:confused: What?? MPE calculations got nothing to do with a scannersafety, except it must work as fast a the pulse time you used in the calculations.
The simplified approach uses 1ms as time, this scanfail is 2ms. But difference in MPE is very small between 1ms and 2ms

This device can work with any type of laser and any type of power, upto 6 colors... for most of us 6 colors is enough (I have not seen yellow in any of your projectors yet :p)

This device makes sure a beam can never be longer than 2ms (or 20ms depens on the setting) at one one location or it will blank the lasers.

This will make sure you never get a static beam in the audience due to a galvo PSU braking down, a galvo braking down, bad connection of a galvo cable, bad ILDA cable, a bad designed show, a bad operator, etc etc etc.

A scannersafety is MANDANTORY in any high power laser used for audiance scanning.

If you are not audience scanning and you are to cheap to invest 115 euro in safety you MUST use a mechanical cover in front of you aperture to block the audience so a beam can NEVER reach the audience.
A steel plate in front of your aperture is a cheaper solution for sure >:)
11-02-2009, 10:14
drlava

Hi,
This is all new to me, can you show an example MPE calculation with 2ms static pulse?

It just seems to me that 2ms of 1W direct into an eye I would not feel safe (worst case scenario), so at what laser power is 2ms safe?

edit:
sorry, maybe I misunderstand the purpose of the device, is it to minimize, not eliminate damage.. then OK 2ms greatly minimizes possibility of damage, but damage is still possible.
11-02-2009, 11:17
mccarrot

I say again, a scannersafety got NOTHING to do with MPE calculations.
It will only assures you stay below MPE in case of a problem (see 2 posts back)

MPE is directly related to the time of exposure, using the formula of 1.8 x 10^-3 x t^3/4 Joules/centimeter squared. Solving this for a "t" of 1 millisecond ( a scanned beam this is pretty conservative as a normal effect is between the 20 and 500 microsecond) gives a result of 10 millijoule/cm^2, which is equivalent to 10 milliwatt/cm^2 for the 1 milisecond of exposure.

for a "t" of 2 milisecond gives a result of 8,5 millijoule/cm^2, which is equivalent to 8,5 milliwatt/cm^2 for the 2 millisecond of exposure. (in case of a problem)

(To do this with the scientific calculator provided with Microsoft Windows, enter 0.001, press the X^Y key, enter 0.75 (equivalent of 3/4), press *, enter 0.0018, press /, enter 0.001, and press =.)

So as you can see the increase from 1ms to 2ms in the calcuation will increase the exposure of less than 1.2x.

Because MPE calculations are pretty conservative (no accidents have been reported at 100x MPE shows) 1.2xMPE is not a big issue in case of a scanner failure or other problem.
But in the US where it's simply not allowed to scan above MPE you should not go higher than 8,5mw/cm2 at the closest point in the audiance.

In europe these MPE safe shows are simply to dim, therefor we (the laserist with sense) use the 10x approch, where we have 100mw/cm2 at the closest point the audiance.

To measuere this you need to measure the power at the closest point in the audicance and increase the divrigence or lower the power using the Beam Attenuation Map.

If you do not have a power meter which can measure mw/cm2 you can use the following formula:

I = p/(π[d/20]²)

Where I is the average intensity in mW/cm², p is power, and d is the diameter of a round spot in mm.

Its best to use a 7mm aperture in front of the detector, as this is also your pupil diameter.

Its all so simple... ;)
11-02-2009, 11:23
mccarrot

Quote:

Originally Posted by drlava

Hi,
This is all new to me, can you show an example MPE calculation with 2ms static pulse?

It just seems to me that 2ms of 1W direct into an eye I would not feel safe (worst case scenario), so at what laser power is 2ms safe?

edit:
sorry, maybe I misunderstand the purpose of the device, is it to minimize, not eliminate damage.. then OK 2ms greatly minimizes possibility of damage, but damage is still possible.

It will eliminate damage in case of a scanner failure or other problem. (saying you use 8,5mw/cm2) thats why a scanfail is so important on high powered lasers.
11-02-2009, 11:47
edison

Thanks for making everything so clear Mccarrot:) I,m stil suprised that you can mount a projector without safety to a ceiling of a club with couple of watts and point it directly in the crowd without being checked by some sort of organisation in the netherlands. I also find it strange that you can buy a high powered laserprojector without scanfailure. Its like selling a car without safety belts. :eek:
11-02-2009, 13:29
drlava

mccarrot, thank you for the great explanation, I think this should be in the user's manual, as it is important to make sure users understand the limits in general :)

I did understand that this device does not ensure a safe show, only that a safe show stays safe in case of a failure.

So, this device will ensure viewer safety (in case of scanner failure) for projectors that emit a maximum crowd irradiance of 8.5mW/cm2 or, using 10x MPE approach, 85mW/cm2.

similarly, a theoretical expensive scanfail device that has a response time of 100us could theoretically only raise the irradiance maximum to 18mW/cm2 (180mW/cm2 at 10x) assuming that the rest of the show fell within the safety guidelines.
11-02-2009, 13:37
mccarrot

Quote:

Originally Posted by drlava

similarly, a theoretical expensive scanfail device that has a response time of 100us could theoretically only raise the irradiance maximum to 18mW/cm2 (180mW/cm2 at 10x) assuming that the rest of the show fell within the safety guidelines.

No, in the USA, and many other countries (not mine :p) 10mw/cm2 is not allowed, so a faster scanfail than 1ms makes no sense.

The only system I know which is faster is PASS, but this will cost you more than 500USD :(
11-02-2009, 14:24
Gento

My authoritative (Referenz) Show to the Safety is Betternow (Pangolin)

Besides, the Safety intervenes more than >3000 sometimes. @30K Speed

Luckily, but one has black holes in augen.

Gento
11-03-2009, 04:56
kl79

Count me in for one board....thank's !
11-03-2009, 08:04
buffo

Quote:

Originally Posted by drlava

mccarrot, thank you for the great explanation, I think this should be in the user's manual, as it is important to make sure users understand the limits in general :)

Maybe the people that are buying it for use in an audience-scanning show ought to be sure they understand what scan-fail protection is really for, before they ever consider doing audience scanning shows...:rolleyes:

Quote:

So, this device will ensure viewer safety (in case of scanner failure) for projectors that emit a maximum crowd irradiance of 8.5mW/cm2 or, using 10x MPE approach, 85mW/cm2.

Exactly, because if you're above that irradiance level your show isn't safe - period. A scan-fail board won't make an unsafe show safe. It is only there to ensure that an otherwise safe show will remain safe in the event of a scanner failure. That's all.

Adam
11-03-2009, 08:12
mccarrot

Persons who WILL buy a scanfail and are prepared to PAY very soon

Below is a lost from persons who want a scanfail and have to money ready to transfer to my bank account.

Please check this list and if you do not have the money ready or you have changed your mind I will remove you from the list.

Nickname pcs Display

List copied to page 5

Groupbuy will end Friday!, payment must be done ASAP after Friday, payment is possible until the next friday

Friday I will send everyone a PM with my bank details, or Paypal. But paying with paypall you have pay 4% extra.
11-03-2009, 08:25
drlava

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffo

Maybe the people that are buying it for use in an audience-scanning show ought to be sure they understand what scan-fail protection is really for, before they ever consider doing audience scanning shows...:rolleyes:

the discussion was done, but thanks for putting in your opinion.
You'd think the people buying laser pointers ought to know not to point them at aircraft too, but... ;) Can't ever be too safe.
11-03-2009, 08:51
mccarrot

I like the description of Edison

A laser without a scanfail is like a car without seatbelts and airbags.

You USA guys don't need seatbelt and airbags because you never drive faster than 2,5MPH (2,5mw/cm2 audience scanning),

or wear a helmet and drive at a empty road with no possibility to have a collision (3 meter above audiance with a blocked aperture)

:D
11-03-2009, 09:04
p1t8ull

Put me down for one as well please :)
11-03-2009, 09:42
mccarrot

One more thing for MPE audiance scanning

2,5mw/cm2 is safe MPE for no scanned beam (blink response 250ms)

10mw/cm2 is safe MPE for a scanned beam (1ms pulse time)

BUT! 10mw/cm2 is ONLY apllicable when you are using a (fast)scanfail.

without a scanfail you cannot go higher than 2,5mw/cm2!
11-03-2009, 09:53
edison

With or without LCD P1t8ull? It,s nice to see that more and more members choose for the scanfailure.:) Even if you think i dont need that its beter to be safe. Even if you choose another scanfailure or a scanset with scanfailure like the raytracks from JMlaser its the best choice you can make regarding building a lasershowprojector. Also if you loose interest in lasers you can sell your projector and still sleep at night:D
11-03-2009, 10:38
p1t8ull

No laa-dee-da LCD for me thanks :D
11-04-2009, 07:08
kl79

I take one more board with the lcd (text only),
11-04-2009, 10:04
mccarrot

only 3 days to go...

Some news:

The software will be English next week :)

The firmware will be English next week :cool:

I will make the Manual english in a few weeks, but I may need your help as I'm not a native English speaker, and my german is also not that good in German :o, but I think together we can make it perfect. *DZ
11-04-2009, 11:06
Doc

1 please with text lcd.

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