Outdoor Show

[JeroenVDV]

I'm sorry, but I'm very disappointed in your reply to the MDG messages, Carlos. Now I'm really sure you haven't done a show like this using the right equipment. Both MCcarrot and I have been using MDG for quite some time for in- and outdoor shows. We're not talking about the Atmosphere but about the MDG Max3000/Max5000 or even the HP version of the 3000 or the 5000.

That is, just like I said in earlier posts, the trick to get an outdoor show working great with lower power lasers. The photos I posted were from an outdoor festival next to the water, with lots of wind. But by placing MDG machines from the right direction of the festival side, I could simply fill the whole festival area with enough smoke in the air to do a big lasershow.

[buffo]

We're not talking about the Atmosphere but about the MDG Max3000/Max5000

They had a *pair* of these on the ILDA cruise back in 2008. And even though they made an *awful* lot of fog, they still couldn't keep up with the 15 knot wind blowing across the deck of the ship. Thus, the laser party on the lido deck was a complete flop, despite the fact that they had a pair of 3 watt Infinity projectors from Medialas.

The crowd was small (maybe 400 people) and close (no more than 120 ft away), and the dance area was sheltered by 1 higher deck on each side, and by multiple higher decks fore and aft. It didn't make any difference though. They couldn't keep the fog contained, and without enough fog even a 3 watt projector looks lame as hell. I actually left after about 45 minutes because it looked so pathetic.

For every example you provide of a show that went OK with low power, I'm sure others can point to shows that were a disaster because they couldn't keep the fog in place. Then too, maybe the venues that you and Mccarrot have been using are located in natural "bowls" that tend to hold in the fog. Or maybe there is a row of trees shielding the area from the wind. Or it's possible that you're just very lucky. (Or that there is normally very little wind at the time of year when you've done your shows.) But wind is definitely your enemy, and it can (and will) overpower even a monster fog machine like the MDG MAX unit. Luck favors the prepared.

This is why experienced laserists will tell you that there is no substitute for raw power. Sure, if you can *guarantee* that the fog will be there, you can get away with less power. But if the wind blows your fog away, the show ends up looking lame. On the other hand, if you show up with enough power to handle the gig without much fog and it turns out to be a calm night (so the fog stays put), then you can idle things back a bit. But at least you have the ability to crank it back up if the wind picks up and save the show...

Adam

[mccarrot]

can imagine a boat deck with open sides is a terrible location to do a show, most festivals have trees drink stands, the stage and objects that will prevent the smoke to blow away too fast
Also a big crowd will help the smoke not to be blown away that fast.

As I mentioned before when there is wind we sometimes use a big 1000W fan to blow the smoke into the audience at the level of there feets, the smoke will then rise up from the audiance into the beams . But this maybe different if you do not have audience scanning.


PS the Infinty you mentioned got a 1W DPSS green, this is not comparble with a 5W green opsl. When you modulate the DPSS you are lucky if you have 75% left over so in real live its aprox 750mW green

[QUAZAR]

This is an outdoor gig from many years ago.
We used a 2011 and an F100 smoke machine with an 18" fan behind it.

Remember to put the fan behind the smoke machine, otherwise it will get covered in fluid which acts like glue and all kinds of crap will stick to it.

[ElektroFreak]

can imagine a boat deck with open sides is a terrible location to do a show, most festivals have trees drink stands, the stage and objects that will prevent the smoke to blow away too fast
Also a big crowd will help the smoke not to be blown away that fast.

As I mentioned before when there is wind we sometimes use a big 1000W fan to blow the smoke into the audience at the level of there feets, the smoke will then rise up from the audiance into the beams . But this maybe different if you do not have audience scanning.


PS the Infinty you mentioned got a 1W DPSS green, this is not comparble with a 5W green opsl. When you modulate the DPSS you are lucky if you have 75% left over so in real live its aprox 750mW green

Now I'm by no means an expert in OPSL technology, but since it uses optically pumped crystals the problem of thermal lensing would seem to me to still be a factor. I'd like to see a plot of Vin vs. Pout for OPSLs. It would be very impressive if they actually maintain real linearity as claimed. The technology is normally out of reach of the average hobbyist due to price, so while we've seen lots of experimentation with DPSS, there's practically none with OPSL.

[carlos3621]

perhaps its a combination of favorable outdoor atmospheric conditions, low ambient lighting and audience scanning..... that you can get away using lower power levels for outdoor shows.
am i familiar with OPSL ? YES, i have one here inside my projector.
am i familiar with MDG? YES, ive seen what they can do, although i do not own one, I do have a MARTIN professional / ZR33 fogger, that is definately no cheapie fogger.

I just recently saw an Indoor show , using 3 watt yag only here locally, CRAPPY show ..... WHY was it not visible and crappy ????

because the fire dept. would not allow the emergency ambient/ lights to be turned off ! AND , because they also would not allow ANY type of hazer / fogger to be used, due to the fire alarm system.

I think its great that you guys can get away with audience scanning, and low outdoor power levels.... but that would not be the same , if you guys were doing shows here in the U.S. ,
i dont even know how much you guys are getting paid to do raves , but with the equipment your listing,,, im sure its alot of money , that affords you the luxury of using good quality equipment .
Definately NOT the case here.

SO in conclusion, will your 5 watt opsl lasers cut it out here for an outdoor rave???? NO.
promoters over here, that do outdoor raves, would probably not hire that....

and another example:
music video / videotaped here recently, Big laser company (not saying names),
this was an indoor show taping,
laser gear?
3 - 10 watt RGB lasers,
2 - 1.5 watt YAGS.
Hazers.
all this laser power for an indoor show, with controlled haze / lighting conditions.

my .02

[clandestiny]

a few smoke pellets from a lionel electric train set and a 500 watt argon

never let me down yet

[gottaluvlasers]

Hey carlos-

I agree with you 50% and i agree with the other side 50%. i know, leave it to me to be a neutral party.

i think we are all forgetting the fact that the atmosphere and particualr weather for that day will make the biggest differences in the world!!! Also, whatr type of effects are we talking about with "visibility"?

My very first laser show ever, was believe it or not, for Creedance Clearwater. It was in Indian Ledge Park in trumbll CT. I was set up to the right of the stage with a 2.5W/532 (Melles) which anyone who owns a melles knows that the second you start blanking them, they drop to about 2W or less. This show landed me 3 more shows with the band. Got me a town of Trumbull Laser job EVERY year since and when the laser first fired for the first time, it got more of a "roar" from the crowd than i think the band did.

NOW- a few things about this show...

1- yes, it was outdoors. with (IRC) ~8,000 people. but the way the park was laid out helped keep fog and ambient "atmospehieric pollution" contained.

2- this was a show in mid august. where the humidity was just obnoxiously high. therefore the haze in the air was perfect.

3- all of my beam effects were kept relatively slow moving and kept to a bare minimum of points. YES, the second i tried a "liquid sky" the visibility was next to nothing. this is where the programming needs to be planned accordingly for a show. the lighting operator was a great guy also and we had a blast working together. He helped the laser part immensley.

the biggest thing i think we need to realize is that technically, both of you are correct. Of course to do an outside show the most power available is by far the best choice. but if you can get your hands on a 3W-5W green for an outdoor show, and you can plan it accordingly and the environemt cooperates with you, you can put on a damn good show! would 10 Watts, 20 Watts or 40 watts be better?? hell yes. of course. but not all of us are in that boat. we have to make due with what is available.

Of course there are limits with this. You cant get away with a superbowl type of laser show with a few 3W or 5W lasers. that just aint gonna cut it.

its pretty basic. you need stuff in the air to see a laser. you can have a "prodjallen" 1,000 watt 532 and do a show with it. if theres nothing good in the air to scatter the light, you aint gonna see it. or you can have a 1W 532 get a great lucky day with super humid and hazey weather with relatively little to no wind and that 1 watt could look like a 20 watt.

Like i said previously, remember something...many outdoor laser shows years back were done with 15-20W of Argon. well, 15-20W of Argon *is* 5-7W of yag!!!

-Marc

[ElektroFreak]

^best answer in this thread so far..

[carlos3621]

a few smoke pellets from a lionel electric train set and a 500 watt argon

never let me down yet

LOL! , well down here in Neverland...oops! i mean Netherlands,
we use synchronized smoke bombs strategically placed around the crowd, and a 5mw RGB laser pointer!... how that for efficiency! SMOKED YA !

OK, no offense to Mccarrot and Jeroen, ive seen your video's, and definately some nice shows ! (as it should be with all the awesome gear you guys have in your arsenal),