Effects we did for a Eurovision 2010 finals in Romania

[andyf97]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izixfQKrJ2M

4 x 10watt units and 6 mirror balls

Simple but kind of cool, the audience liked it quite a lot.

[-bart-]

the audience liked it quite a lot.

If one of the audience or performers would claim eye-damage, would you be able to prove that it could not be possible caused by your show ?

[andyf97]

Bart,

I wonder why it is you keep making negative comments about our work, could it be that you know that we will do a big concert in the Netherlands this year and your upset because your not doing it?

[satje]

Bart,

I wonder why it is you keep making negative comments about our work, could it be that you know that we will do a big concert in the Netherlands this year and your upset because your not doing it?

I am sure you read Bart's comment in a wrong context here.

What where you using as safety ?
And are you aware of possible claims?

Do not think it is a negative reaction, just a realistic one....

[Jem]

Hi Guys

I don't really think it's really necessary for certain members of the forum to jump on every thread that shows a nice video and question the safety aspects of the show. This has been happening more and more lately and instead of appreciating the show for what it is the thread descends into a slanging match over public safety. I'm not saying for one moment that safety isn't, or shouldn't be absolutely paramount, but this sort of behaviour will just stop people like Andy et al from posting videos of their shows, which some of us enjoy seeing.

Why don't you just accept it for what it is - a nice laser show. Andy runs a large laser company and i'm sure he's only too well aware of the dangers involved in pointing lasers towards members of the public. Look at the title of the thread, that's quite a prestigious gig no doubt involving TV companies and many other professionals.

Maybe he's risk assessed every beam in that show, maybe he hasn't. I personally have no idea what he's done. All I do know is that if he hasn't done his homework and made sure the show is safe someone somewhere will discover that and take necessary action.

We've proved time and time again how difficult it is to assess the safety of a show from just looking at a video. So guys, please let folks (especially the Pro's) put videos up on here without giving them such a hard time. I guess we just have to have some faith in the assumption that they know what they're doing.

Cheers, & peace to you all

Jem

[oliverst14@hotmail.com]

jem

i do agree with what your saying but its good for members like myself to learn ways of doing safe shows, if large companies are using 10 watt lasers and pointing them at crowds that are very close some people may look at the video and immediatly think that they can do the same but we all know that this is not the case.

its sometimes good for large companies to let us small fry know how they manage this.

i myself started with a 200mw laser, im now worried about going and using my 1 watt laser as it looks so bright but this shows that bright lasers can be used safely and short distances. id be very interested as im sure alot of people would at how this can be possible.

my first thought when i saw this was that it didnt look very safe at all but it obviously is as no one would allow an unsafe show to be used at such a high spec gig as the eurovision so now it would be good to find out what techniques were used to acheive this.

thanks ollie

also: this may not win me many friends and will possibly cause some contovisy but last year at an event as a few of you know i had a camera pointing at a large laser show. the lasers came on and a large flash happened at the same time, my camera malfunctoined and a large green mark was on the screen. i informed ilda of this and asked them to get the show designer to send me the mpe calculations. they informed me that a show the size of the one i was at could not have mpe calculations done for it as it was unpheasable as it was too large. im just wondering what huge shows do then to ensure safety??????? (the damage to the camera was deemed by ilda to be from the flash of light and not the lasers, i actually still beg to differ but they are the experts and i left it cause the laserist is a very highly respected one so felt it best not to rock the boat too much although they did say i could have free tickets to the next event they did these never materialised shame.

[andyf97]

The long and short of it,

Of course we take a lot of care what we are doing, along with peoples eyes we have a reputation to protect, it's a live show and we have 20 cameras to protect too.

while those beams look very aratic, they are very well pre-aligned without the audience present, we do the installation there 3 days before and are constantly improving the positions of mirrors and beams to be optimum for the TV viewers and also for safety. Its always difficult to tell from videos or photos what looks bad or not, there are videos of the same show where the laser look very week and some that look like 50watts. Each cameras level can have very dramatic differences. The end result is we do shows that most would dream to do and because they can;t they only want to throw negatives.

There are a number of people that do not like our company due to its high speed of growth and we expect it as normal. Nobody likes to see somebody rocketing when they are not able to move.

Anyway, for me I have been involved with lasers for at least 20 years and while the first 15 of those years was more like a hobby I was learning all the time and never stop. If you can grasp that I made my first projector 20 years ago using a 60mW HENE and BBC computer. Some people even now are using less than 60mW and am sure many PL members don't know what a BBC computer is.

So, in the end, people that pass such comments are giving others bad ideas and the laser business a bad reputation. These comments will lead to people visiting events where lasers are present and those visitors later claiming they had some eye damage, then who is to prove what. here's a thought for you guys..
It was a windy day today and I saw a guy get some dirty stone in his eye, he was rubbing it and his eye went all read, now what if that guy later went to a concert and lasers were present just at the time his eye started to get infected from the stone dirt. Of course he visit the doctor the doctor ask what he was doing today and he tells the doctor I was just at a concert with lasers, of course the doctor will most likely say Oh it was the laser. Now why does this doctor makes that connection, well its simple because many people make such comments of lasers damaging eyes on public forums. SO one day you guys trying to get into this business will know who to blame, it wont be the people doing great professional shows, it will be the skeptics who cant.

Lately everyone blames the lasers and its all thanks to a select few.

I use big laser and I use small ones, by the way a 1w laser can easily light a cigarette, sounds like a killer doesn't it.

So people who call themselves laserists and then put such comments are doing harm to themselves in the business because they are simply spreading scary words about lasers. So in a few years guys if you cant do you show because lasers are banned, you know who to blame. For sure it wont be the professionals.

Best Regards to you all.

Andy

[satje]

It was a windy day today and I saw a guy get some dirty stone in his eye, he was rubbing it and his eye went all read, now what if that guy later went to a concert and lasers were present just at the time his eye started to get infected from the stone dirt. Of course he visit the doctor the doctor ask what he was doing today and he tells the doctor I was just at a concert with lasers, of course the doctor will most likely say Oh it was the laser.

Just these things are for people like me to take account with...
I do not point fingers, i just thougt you mis intrepreted the reply.

It's good to learn! and not to blame eachother.

Ferry

[andyf97]

Ollie,

There are several laser safety training courses available in the UK where all your questions will be answered. http://www.laservisuals.com/training.htm

Not sure what you have in Cheshire but they do exist in the country.

Also, there are many professionals including ILDA members with many years experience on this forum who could clarify any specific points you have, the best choice is to go on a course and learn from one source who is offering specific courses as most of us while we would like to help have little time to explain in great detail.

[-bart-]

Well I asked a simple question. I read the comments over and over and I must conclude you don't want to answer the question strait forward.

Every moron can create a spectacular show, creating a safe spectacular show is a true art.
So what makes a show interesting, is its safety aspects, not its impressiveness. If I see for example an impressive piece of rigging. I feel free to question it's safety. Everyone can bolt together some aluminium only limited by his/her imagination. The safety is divined by calculus, not by the size of your company or the years of experience.

My adagio is: "Question everything". I simply hate security-by-obscurity.
So everything that looks unsafe, is unsafe, unless proven otherwise". If you think that damages the industry, that's your opinion.

Arguments such as "You hate Me because I'm Big" "I have 20 years of experience" "I don't have time to clarify in detail" are invalid.
In fact they are highly suspicious. If I ask if your car is safe, you just show me the papers that say that it is checked and maintained properly. You could also say "You hate me because I got a big car" or "I drive cars for 20 years now" or "I don't have time for this". The latter arguments are simply not convincing.

If you got an eye-doctor who says that retinal damage could be caused by rubbing in dirt, go find another doctor fast.

Real professionals don't become evasive or agitated when questioned on safety. At least I don't.