hire or purchase for annual event?

[PsycoEwok]

Greetings all! I'm looking to improve the dance-floor lighting system for an annual event, of which I am a staff member. I'm more than certain that an impressive laser show/system is the next step that we need to take to really make an impact, but I'm afraid I still feel too inexperienced to know what we really need to do. That's where I'm hoping the PL community can at least point me in the right direction.

Right now I'm really leaning towards an RGB laser projector, but I'm concerned about power output. Mostly, I'm worried that a 1 watt RGB projector (for example) won't be "bright enough" for the event, whereas a 1 watt green projector would be. I realize that "bright enough" is entirely subjective, but all I'm looking for is at least a ballpark figure in terms of matching a given projector to a room-size, because I currently have no idea at all. And I don't think I really have any place around where I can go and compare laser projector brightnesses or anything. I'm still just too new to this to know what we'd really need for our dance area, which is roughly 50' wide by 70' long. The room is actually much larger than this, but this area is the only place I'm really concerned about. Do you think you guys would be "satisfied' with a 1 watt RGB laser given these dimensions? Or should we spring instead for 1 watt (or more?) of a single color? Or are you guys ever really "satisfied"? :P

My next concern is whether or not it's even economical for us to purchase laser equipment in this price range for an event that only lasts a few hours per night, for a few days per year. Would it be a better idea to just hire a professional to install and run the laser equipment for us? Would renting equipment and running it ourselves be an option? Do you guys have any idea how much it would cost for either of the above scenarios? Again, even just a ballpark figure would be greatly helpful. I'm just trying to get an idea of which direction to go at this point.

Thank you PL members for any help you can provide!

[rgb-gas]

where in the world are you? how high are the ceilings? beams only?

[rgb-gas]

Or are you guys ever really "satisfied"? :P no

[PsycoEwok]

where in the world are you? how high are the ceilings? beams only?

The event is in Atlanta, Georgia. Ceiling height is 15 feet 2 inches. And... well I'm not sure if I understand your last question actually, sorry. Could you elaborate?

Edit: Oh wait, durrrr, I assume you mean if the laser(s) will just need to be used for beams or if they'll also need to do graphics. In that case, the laser's primary function will need to be just beams, but we'd be interested in making it display static or simply-animated logos as well for a few other things if possible.

[pelosh]

HI

So you are in US...tough regulations. First of all you should get to know how to do the laser show properly so it's safe and enjoyable.
Depends on the equipment used (and the software), but it might take while to master it and get the confidence - not only with laser show itself but also doing risk assesments and dealing with safety officers.

So all this indicates that you might want to either hire someone to do this one event for you or to spend money on equipment, learn and use it more regulary.

[PsycoEwok]

HI

So you are in US...tough regulations. First of all you should get to know how to do the laser show properly so it's safe and enjoyable.
Depends on the equipment used (and the software), but it might take while to master it and get the confidence - not only with laser show itself but also doing risk assesments and dealing with safety officers.

So all this indicates that you might want to either hire someone to do this one event for you or to spend money on equipment, learn and use it more regulary.

Thanks for the reply Pelosh. We would absolutely make safety a top priority if we did end up handling the laser ourselves. I've become rather passionate about these things over the past several months, and would have no problem taking the time and effort to make sure our shows would be completely safe and within US law. Operating a laser and learning how to do so safely is something that I'm very interested in doing.

Right now though I'm just trying to get a better idea of what we would really need for a laser in terms of power. And if we end up hiring someone to do a show for us instead, I need to figure out about how much it would cost. I didn't really want to waste anyone's time (or look like an idiot) by hammering out all the details of a show with them, and then have them suddenly quote a price for me that was no where close to what I thought it would be. Additionally, they could come up with pretty much any price at all and I would have no idea if they're completely ripping me off or if they're giving me a sweet deal. That's why I'm hoping someone here could give me a bit of an idea as to the price range that I'm looking at. Do you think I should go ahead and try contacting someone anyways though, just to get a feel for how much hiring/renting would cost? I don't want to come back to PL with photos/videos of the event, saying "Company X charged us $5,000 for this show", and have the PL community immediately respond with "WOW YOU GOT COMPLETELY RIPPED OFF!" :P

[PsycoEwok]

Hey Pelosh, I did reply to your PM to me, but nothing is showing up in my "Sent Messages" folder. I don't know if that's normal on this board or not, but just thought I'd let you know here just in case.

[gottaluvlasers]

PsychoEwok-

Good questions. If you already know that the laser system would only be used once a year for only 1 or 2 nights in a row, then my suggestion would be to hire a reputable company in your area to perform the show.

Just for an example, these are *not* my rates but definitely in the ballpark of what to expect from a reputable laser company:

1 night, (1) 2-5 Watt green system $1500-$2500 plus any expenses
2 nights, $3000-$5000 plus any expenses, lodging

RGB Laser 1-3 Watt plus above mentioned green:

figure about $1500-$2000 additoinal minimum for each night.

RGB system 2-5 Watt only

1 night- $2500-$4000 plus expenses
2 night- $4500-$8000 plus expenses

these are for solid state systems. not ion systems. And most likely would include at least 2 employees/operators.

Now, to get a professional system built including a variance and a certified system (so, forget about importing a projector)* <-----(See note below before certain foreign manufacturers get their panties in a bunch). you are looking at ~$5000 and up.

If you are just looking for "IMPACT" and the people to go, "WOWWWW!!!!" then a green system may be your most affordable option and most economical option. Of course, RGB is much more beautiful and awe inspiring. but you are looking at much more money for powers needed to make a the same impact as a green only system.

*Note from above-

Projectors, no matter how good they are, need to be certified in the USA in order to obtain a variance. If a projector purchased outside of the USA is not certified, than *YOU* would need to file the product report and modify the projector in question to adhere to 21 CFR Part 1040. Good luck with that! there are manufacturers in the U.S. that have product reports and variance requests waiting for over a year. I am *in no way* saying that some foreign manufactured projectors are not good quality. most of them are excellent. however, they are not built to the regulations that is needed for a *legal* system here in the U.S. They *CAN* be modified and in turn certified, but this takes extensive periods of time and extensive dealings with the FDA/CDRH. you also would have to clear it with the manufacturer to not void their warranty by applying any such modifications to make their systems compliant.

Hope this clears up some of your questions. Myself and many other people here would be more than happy to answer more questions you may have.

-Marc

[dsli_jon]

Hey PsycoEwok -

First, Welcome to PL - buckle your seatbelt, it's a wild ride! Second, great name - lol - like it...

Third, I can definitely back Marc (gottaluvlasers, there...) up in the thoughts he put out to ya, with just one comment, and one additional aspect, as 'food for thought'...

The one comment would-be that you can - and most-likely will - find a pretty-wide 'latitude' when it comes to 'Pro Co' Sho Pricing, but you can't always 'judge a book by its cover-charge' - that is to say, that sometimes, the Co's that 'charge less' will deliver just-that - NOT saying anything specifically about these price-points, NOR anything 'negative' about any Co that would quote these prices, etc, all I am getting-at, is that if Co. X quotes you $2K for Lasers: XY and Z, and Co. Y quotes you $5K for the-same, don't make the decision on dollar-amount, alone... make them provide examples, in that price-range, and Client Refs, that you can contact, to back it up... (and that assumes they are both Varianced, insured, etc, etc...)

Other 'thought' would-be simply from the angle-of, 'how many years' are you talking, here? If you know, for example, your event will-be happening for the next 5 years, well - then, purchase might not be such a 'pricey' idea... especially, if there is ANY chance you'll have other events, a system might get used-for. But, since You would need to get a Variance to perform shows, even at your venue, (and/or elsewhere), and, as Marc correctly pointed-out, it will need to be a Certified system (or your variance will not get approved), if this is only gonna-be 2-3 years, then, yeah, probably not 'worth-it'...

In either-case, to your one question, especially if you've got a fair-amount of 'competing' light / LED-screens / video / etc, etc, I'd recommend at least 2W of Green, and 4W of RGB... 2W of RGB would be the very, very bare-min... fine for graphics, but a bit 'thin' for all-but really-dark ambient conditions with heavy 'atmosphere' (haze) for aerials / beam-fx, IMHO...

Just some further 'food for thought'... hope it is helpful...
cheers...
J

[PsycoEwok]

I swear my PMs are not working... I can receive them, but every time I send one, it's like it just disappears entirely, yet the messages I received have the little "replied-to" icon. Weird. :| I hope they're actually going through and just not showing up in my sent items for some reason...

Anyways, thanks a ton Jon and Marc! This is a lot of very useful information, and is helping me quite a bit in deciding what we should do.

Jon: I definitely don't see our event going away within the next 5 years. If anything we'll continue to grow even bigger. And I would say that we don't have very much competing light at all. There's a fair amount of light up on the stage with the DJ, but the floor itself has no wash lights at all. Any light that it receives is either reflected from the stage or the two large video screens that we have on either side of the stage, and also lighting from our current FX lights.

And 2 watts of green sounds like quite a lot of power for a 50x70 area, though I've admitted before that I don't really know what we need. Still, 2 watts is definitely going to be out of our price range right now I'm afraid unless we're just renting or something. Is renting even an option for most places? Or do the personnel always have to come bundled with the laser?