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Thread: Kenometer Pro Review

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarioMaster View Post
    You'd be surprised how little profit margin there is on these meters.



    Your new meter is still just a spray-painted TEC and it costs nearly as much as a Pro

    And since you seem so high and mighty right now what ADC does the LB1 use? You seemed so willing to share what the LB2 uses...
    Does that make you feel better MM.... that's so sad....Click image for larger version. 

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    As to the ADC the LaserBee II uses... it is propietary....
    After all we are a reputable long time Registered R&D company... not a bunch of
    guys tying to put out a product with obviously (by the Review) no manufacturing skills...
    or at the least very limited skills..
    Now we know why the Warning Label was stuck to CDB's PRO...
    Don't worry about the Warranty... I won't be asking you to replace the PRO
    when it gets here....


    Jerry
    See the LaserBee II and all other LaserBee LPM products here....
    All LaserBee Laser Power Meter Products

    New 3.2Watt RS232/USB LaserBee II LPM REVIEW


    Always in stock and ready to ship....
    Subsidary:-Pharma Electronic Solutions

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarioMaster View Post
    You'd be surprised how little profit margin there is on these meters.
    I'd be more than happy to post a price list for all of the components and you can judge by yourself how little of a price margin there is. Would laserbee be willing to do the same? I think not! Will he stream live the assembly of his house without walls? I think not!

    One more example of where someone with a lot of money to throw away on a product beats out the little man who has to do everything by hand and doesn't have the resources to "pre-assemble" everything from the manufacturer.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
    First .... I agree with you that those OPHIR Surplus heads are good Thermopile
    heads... The Head outputs 1mV/1mW that you can easily read with a standard
    DMM... Kenom had posted somewhere that he paid $60.00 per head...
    You do the math.............

    When you try to put down the LaserBee I as you so often do...
    you should perhaps compare the costs... you are comparing a $219.00 LaserBee I
    to a $400.00 PRO...

    Jerry
    I have done the math,

    I'm seeing a quality Ophir thermal head worth a few hunderd bucks, compared to a black sprayed tec glued on a heatsink worth 10 dollar.

    In your comparison you cpmpared your OEM laserbee without housing and compared it to a complete enclosed meter.
    Because the LaserbeeII uses similar cheap head I guess the graph will be kinda similar so its more fair to compare the laserbee 2 deluxe with the Kenom Pro

    Both are arround the 400 USD, and looking at the proffesional head and the nice graphica display the Kenom have the Kenometer is in my oppinion got much more value to the money.

    If I didnt allready had a proper meter I definitly would go for a kenometer.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mccarrot View Post
    I have done the math,

    I'm seeing a quality Ophir thermal head worth a few hunderd bucks, compared to a black sprayed tec glued on a heatsink worth 10 dollar.

    In your comparison you cpmpared your OEM laserbee without housing and compared it to a complete enclosed meter.
    Because the LaserbeeII uses similar cheap head I guess the graph will be kinda similar so its more fair to compare the laserbee 2 deluxe with the Kenom Pro

    Both are arround the 400 USD, and looking at the proffesional head and the nice graphica display the Kenom have the Kenometer is in my oppinion got much more value to the money.

    If I didnt allready had a proper meter I definitly would go for a kenometer.

    THANK YOU! You have no idea how much it means to have someone supporting me.

  5. #25
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    Ken, about the only way you can salvage this situation is to post pictures of the inside of a "real" kenometer. You should also specify how you are overcoming the +/-4LSB drift, lack of true differential input, etc. of the ADC on the MegaAVR you are using. Otherwise there's just no excuse for using something as cheap and cheesy as the on-die ADC in what is, after all, a metrology application where people may be relying on the readings your device produces.

    Why did you send out a prototype unit?

    Also, why is there no shielding or groundplane on any of the signal lines in the prototype? Even my prototypes use coax for low-current signal lines.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by heroic View Post
    Ken, about the only way you can salvage this situation is to post pictures of the inside of a "real" kenometer. You should also specify how you are overcoming the +/-4LSB drift, lack of true differential input, etc. of the ADC on the MegaAVR you are using. Otherwise there's just no excuse for using something as cheap and cheesy as the on-die ADC in what is, after all, a metrology application where people may be relying on the readings your device produces.

    Why did you send out a prototype unit?

    Also, why is there no shielding or groundplane on any of the signal lines in the prototype? Even my prototypes use coax for low-current signal lines.
    The prototype unit was sent because I was waiting on enclosures due to a volcanic ash cloud grounding all air traffic from Europe and Bob was wanting a refund, which I did not have the means of producing at the time. I sent the prototype to tide him over until the enclosures arrived and I could finish the meter that was intended for him. I however did not communicate this to him. (my error) It was an act of desperation. I then promptly forgot when I asked him to review the unit, that I had sent him the prototype.

    All of the issues Bob complained about have been addressed prior to this review.. The wires popping of the connector to the head was rectified by using the included cabling, the wires inside are no longer cheap magnet wrap wire that won't stand up to some abuse, the sensor connector on the box itself is no longer screwed in place to deform the plastic around it, and the mapping of the buttons has been addressed.

    I have posted pictures of other meters I've assembled but I don't think it will convince people that the meters are assembled well.. You can judge for yourself.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    As to why there's no sheilding, the cables that come with the sensors are not sheilded therefore, I saw no point in adding something the manufacturer of the piles didn't feel was necessary.
    Last edited by Kenom; 05-12-2010 at 12:20.

  7. #27
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    So you've switched to Arduino Nano, which is to say the exact same ADC.

    You haven't included any shielding or groundplane. The head's cable is clearly shielded (that's what the foil on the cable is), but in any case the reason the cord is not coax is that it is a differential signal. The AVR ADC does not support differential inputs, so you lose all the common-mode rejection.

    What's more, that cheesy little home made PCB is a noise magnet. Do yourself a huge favour and redesign the input circuitry of this thing. You need to use a doublesided PCB at the very least, with a real groundplane, a differential input and a shielded flex to the ADC inputs. You also need to work on the difference between noise rejection and decoupling... this shit wouldn't fly in *any* electronics shop I've worked in.

    What's more, you're almost certainly violating the GPL by selling this thing without offering source code.

    Those heads cost about $100 in the volume you're buying them; the Teensy is about $18 and you may be getting the LCDs for as much as $40 a piece; add $20 for the other parts and maybe $10 for your power supply and I am wondering why you feel a 100% markup is acceptable on a device that could have been designed in under an hour in any competent EE shop.
    Last edited by heroic; 05-12-2010 at 12:27.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by heroic View Post
    What's more, you're almost certainly violating the GPL by selling this thing without offering source code.
    Sorry to burst your bubble but "Physically embedding an Arduino board inside a commercial product does not require you to disclose or open-source any information about its design."
    -http://arduino.cc/en/Main/FAQ

    Kenom will be posting the component cost shortly, you have severely underestimated the build cost.

    The cables that are currently being used are shielded, but only because they were originally PS/2 cords. The original thermopile cables are not shielded and neither are they a differential signal.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by heroic View Post
    So you've switched to Teensy, which is to say the exact same ADC.

    You haven't included any shielding or groundplane. The head's cable is clearly shielded (that's what the foil on the cable is), but in any case the reason the cord is not coax is that it is a differential signal. The AVR ADC does not support differential inputs, so you lose all the common-mode rejection.

    What's more, that cheesy little home made PCB is a noise magnet. Do yourself a huge favour and redesign the input circuitry of this thing. You need to use a doublesided PCB at the very least, with a real groundplane, a differential input and a shielded flex to the ADC inputs. You also need to work on the difference between noise rejection and decoupling... this shit wouldn't fly in *any* electronics shop I've worked in.

    What's more, you're almost certainly violating the GPL by selling this thing without offering source code.

    Those heads cost about $100 in the volume you're buying them; the Teensy is about $18 and you may be getting the LCDs for as much as $40 a piece; add $20 for the other parts and maybe $10 for your power supply and I am wondering why you feel a 100% markup is acceptable on a device that could have been designed in under an hour in any competent EE shop.
    there is no foil in the cabling on the thermopile. I can ship you one so you can see for yourself if you would like. It is just a simple plastic sheilded stranded wire.

    Kenometer Pro component costs. Cost
    enclosure $18.95
    Black feet PA4.9 $0.81
    Battery comp. $18.78
    battery terminal + $0.35
    battery terminal - $0.51
    Theropile $65
    Membrane Switches $12
    Arduino $35
    Wires $10
    LCD $ 29.99
    14500 battery $ 7
    charger $10
    dc/dc converter $18
    overlay $27
    assorted components for filter $10
    Total thus far and I assure you there is more with shipping on all these assorted parts comes to $263 The shipping adds on another $60 at least since they are all coming from different sources.

    With the custom modification I have to do with the enclosures it takes me in excess of 6 hours to build these meters each.
    Last edited by Kenom; 05-12-2010 at 12:48.

  10. #30
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    http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...0&d=1273542014

    This picture clearly shows a metallized Mylar foil shield.

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