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Thread: Paradigm Shift, My A$$!

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    Default Paradigm Shift, My A$$!

    The second law of thermodynamics has a optical corollary, Etendue.

    Etendue says, you cant win, you cant loose, you cant even play the game.

    Translation, no output beam passing through passive optics can be brighter then its source, more so if you try to shrink the diameter while trying to make the beam parallel.
    Think irradiance,not burning things.

    Fine folks, all of you who are going to sell me your 473s so damn fast and so cheap, just go ahead. You really need to think about that before you do.

    Oh, and enjoy the ride, because having got a glimpse of what Nichia is going to offer next, these small chips are not going to be here long, and the next thing for laser video has a beam you could not get into 600 micron fiber...

    Yes, I bought two, but I have access to a combining technique that is too expensive for the average hobbyist. I'm going to throw away 1/3 to 1/2 of the power to even get close to a decent beam.

    Slow down folks, these Nichia things are not quite what many of you think they are...

    Just a public service announcement from the craggy ole Ghost of Laser Xmas Past....

    Who once upon a time, some years ago, bought a first generation high power red, costing two weeks pay.... The spex are not all that different...

    Prove me wrong..
    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 06-04-2010 at 15:52.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedgas View Post
    The second law of thermodynamics has a optical corollary, Etendue.

    Etendue says, you cant win, you cant loose, you cant even play the game.

    Translation, no output beam passing through passive optics can be brighter then its source, more so if you try to shrink the diameter while trying to make the beam parallel.
    Think irradiance,not burning things.

    Fine folks, all of you who are going to sell me your 473s so damn fast and so cheap, just go ahead. You really need to think about that before you do.

    Oh, and enjoy the ride, because having got a glimpse of what Nichia is going to offer next, these small chips are not going to be here long, and the next thing for laser video has a beam you could not get into 600 micron fiber...

    Yes, I bought two, but I have access to a combining technique that is too expensive for the average hobbyist. I'm going to throw away 1/3 to 1/2 of the power to even get close to a decent beam.

    Slow down folks, these Nichia things are not quite what many of you think they are...

    Just a public service announcement from the craggy ole Ghost of Laser Xmas Past....

    Who once upon a time, some years ago, bought a first generation high power red, costing two weeks pay.... The spex are not all that different...

    Prove me wrong..
    Steve
    Cant slow down now steve, it is a feeding frenzy, its insanity!!! its BLUE!!!! (yeah im not impressed either) but it beats garden hoses
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedgas View Post
    Oh, and enjoy the ride, because having got a glimpse of what Nichia is going to offer next, these small chips are not going to be here long, and the next thing for laser video has a beam you could not get into 600 micron fiber...
    Screw DLPs- and I say that as an ex-TIer- because MEMS galvos are the next big thing, and yes, they do need small beams to match their small mirrors.

    Who needs fibre-fed heads when you have multi-watt diodes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by heroic View Post
    Screw DLPs- and I say that as an ex-TIer- because MEMS galvos are the next big thing, and yes, they do need small beams to match their small mirrors.

    Who needs fibre-fed heads when you have multi-watt diodes?
    DLP has the advantage of achieving cinema theater power levels which could be a potential problem with MEMS. The eventual goal is to eliminate shipping film worldwide, as far as that goes...eliminate film all together...and it will happen...it is just who has the best format for large projection ..As far as personal presentation projectors i suspect LCOS will be the inexpensive alternative....IMHO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman532 View Post
    DLP has the advantage of achieving cinema theater power levels which could be a potential problem with MEMS.
    I'm not sure you're right... commercial power semiconductors tolerate power densities of gigawatts per cubic centimetre. Suffice to say that people smarter than me are working on these systems and when I've spoken to them they were optimistic about the ability to reach very high power levels. One point to remember is that these MEMS based systems eliminate the need for a lot of expensive optics (it's hard to keep your pixel array straight and flat over a wide zoom range, as is needed for portable business projectors) by simple dint of being laser projectors, so they may end up being cheaper than the alternative, just as long as the light sources come down in price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heroic View Post
    I'm not sure you're right... commercial power semiconductors tolerate power densities of gigawatts per cubic centimetre. Suffice to say that people smarter than me are working on these systems and when I've spoken to them they were optimistic about the ability to reach very high power levels. One point to remember is that these MEMS based systems eliminate the need for a lot of expensive optics (it's hard to keep your pixel array straight and flat over a wide zoom range, as is needed for portable business projectors) by simple dint of being laser projectors, so they may end up being cheaper than the alternative, just as long as the light sources come down in price.

    i stand corrected...I just have a spot in my heart for DLP, and I figured that projection lens technology cant be improved on...much......it is an amazing piece of art (probably captured alien technology...kidding of course). The DLP "projection" was just an side application of the tech.

    The big money maker for the DLP is basically a single use device sorry to say
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    Guess the bottom line is....even with poor ratings from who knows who....it's a chance for the blue laser to become reality to a lot of people.... the ones that are laser minded. I for one jumped with joy at the chance at cheap blue....I have talked of this over 4 years ago on PL. Now it's here. In my hands. Even if the beam is a little large...so what if you have 1 watt of it. That would cost $$$$$ or more for 473nm...not to mention 457nm I was almost ready to buy into. So now I get to really play with this sometime....soon I hope. Having not seen it myself , 445nm alone, I am certain it may pose an issue to be dumbfounded with for quite some time. I had plans to build a dual right off the bat....maybe next projector. We need to look at this with a limited time frame I feel, as Mixedgas pointed out, as bigger and better may push these away from top manu priority. Even if the next generation has a huge 635 ish beam....they can be tamed enough to hit the mirrors. But at a cost in power and optics expense. I say enjoy. One issue that I and Mo spoke of.....no one has created a viable solution for a decent 1 watt single diode red. Maybe another time for this. Hint.......wants a 642nm diode...say around 100um chip......around 1/2 watt...near $200 each.
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    I think what IS happening here is that people like myself, who have looked at their hobby projectors and seen they're going to need >300mW of 473nm, have basically had to say no (I'd be looking at around 1500-2000 to do my pair of projectors) and stuck with big greens or RGY's.
    Now there is a chance to get some blue that isn't 405 (i.e. nearly a proper blue) for next to nothing, and being a diode, can get into a small form factor (I didn't even think I'd fit a blue in my cases!) I reckon I'm in for about 300 for the pair which is really pocket money prices - what's to lose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman532 View Post
    The big money maker for the DLP is basically a single use device sorry to say
    I met the guy who invented DLP while I was at TI. He told me what they're used for; I looked into it, and then quit a month later... part of it was that I had a better offer, and part was that I don't like working for that kind of customer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heroic View Post
    I met the guy who invented DLP while I was at TI. He told me what they're used for; I looked into it, and then quit a month later... part of it was that I had a better offer, and part was that I don't like working for that kind of customer.
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