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Thread: A plea for safety, pl edition.

  1. #11
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    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
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    Laserscopes need biannual tuneups and a touchup every roadtrip. They soon die if not PMed correctly. CVLs and CuBRs and argons over say 300 mW need tender loving care. Not to mention extension cords that cost between $2.00 and 10.00$ a foot to make.. In other words, some skills and effort.

    Something you stick a pair of A123 or AA cells in and get 600-700 mW that is easily hidden in the palm or your hand and is controlled by a protruding button, and activated as easily as a TV remote by a three year old is a far greater hazard.

    Steve
    Qui habet Christos, habet Vitam!
    I should have rented the space under my name for advertising.
    When I still could have...

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney3K View Post
    Here's a thought: Only allow GB's to people with a valid ILDA membership number.

    If they're an ILDA member (even just private or student), there's a lot more chance they actually know what they're doing.

    This doesn't seem like a good idea, while I see what you are saying - as far as I am aware an ILDA membership is not free, and many people who know what they are talking about may not be able to afford one or justify the cost of said membership.

  3. #13
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    I personally am not certain to the avilablity of this product, as is provided, much longer. I have seen factory recalls reach far and deep....fast. This may be very well one of those devices. With the current state of things in general, yes it will be hard to try and regulate much of anything. But like you stated....if a bunch of accidents start to take place in the media.....game over. For everything and will most likely be nation wide. That would not make me a very happy camper....sucking all the jot form this hobby. Safety and proper training.....even investigation of unknown dangers that may exist are warranted. Let's all keep this a safe hobby.
    You are the only one that can make your dreams come true....and the only one that can stop them...A.M. Dietrich

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diachi View Post
    This doesn't seem like a good idea, while I see what you are saying - as far as I am aware an ILDA membership is not free, and many people who know what they are talking about may not be able to afford one or justify the cost of said membership.
    If a person is seriously planning to do lasershows, and can spend $1000 on a new projector, they would probably be able to spare another $100 for the ILDA membership fee. I know that people buying a $400 Chinese projector off the shelf would be less inclined to do so, but that's just the kind of person we would want to keep away from high power systems until they're ready.

    People who know how to operate shows safely and are willing to share that information with others aren't the issue. Nor are 'Allens', e.g. the people who will want to circumvent safety measures and risk everything to get high power systems running. They've got a brain (sort of), they're just using it wrong. If they want to get their hands on a 1W Nichia, they will get it, no matter.

    The people we have to protect are the 13-year-olds who just got one of these for Christmas and shows everybody how cool it is to light a blunt with a blue laser in the schoolyard. These people aren't willing to deliberately ignore safety measures and warnings, they're just completely ignorant and don't understand the risks.

  5. #15
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    Restrictions for ILDA only members is nonsensical...
    - There is no such word as "can't" -
    - 60% of the time it works every time -

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney3K View Post
    If a person is seriously planning to do lasershows, and can spend $1000 on a new projector, they would probably be able to spare another $100 for the ILDA membership fee. I know that people buying a $400 Chinese projector off the shelf would be less inclined to do so, but that's just the kind of person we would want to keep away from high power systems until they're ready.

    People who know how to operate shows safely and are willing to share that information with others aren't the issue. Nor are 'Allens', e.g. the people who will want to circumvent safety measures and risk everything to get high power systems running. They've got a brain (sort of), they're just using it wrong. If they want to get their hands on a 1W Nichia, they will get it, no matter.

    The people we have to protect are the 13-year-olds who just got one of these for Christmas and shows everybody how cool it is to light a blunt with a blue laser in the schoolyard. These people aren't willing to deliberately ignore safety measures and warnings, they're just completely ignorant and don't understand the risks.

    I've spent 150 on my projector and that is about all I can afford, I will have blue, I do have green, and I have a case and galvos. I seriously cannot afford any more, I can't even afford mounts for the blues - I have 11.29 in my bank account. Do you think I can afford the ILDA membership? I sure as hell know what I'm doing though.

    I also don't imagine that 13 year olds smoke blunts, I doubt that they could even roll one ... or afford one.

  7. #17
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    Being a ILDA member will make you safe? That's like saying Mixedgas will return your gear and/or with screws in it. People will be stupid and people do get hurt.. "Please Think of the Children" fear mongering is ridiculous. 300mw Is/was safe these days? How many people got injured by them so far? If you want to have a clean conscious and be responsible, including pictures and educational material on how to calculate power density at a distance pertaining to the 445nm diode.


    300mw of 405nm is more dangerous in just to blink reaction time. 445nm is 9.1x bright to the human eye than 405nm and 2x dimmer than 650nm
    Rob Mudryk
    Retired old and Grumpy Laserist

  8. #18
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    Here's a thought: Only allow GB's to people with a valid ILDA membership number.
    I would have to disagree too. I am not a member of ILDA but I do hold safety #1 importance when performing laser services.

    Some folks on here may not be long time members of PL nor post much on PL, but who are we to determine who gets what into their hands.

    It is sad that people don't see safety as a top priority value but who are we to judge those based on post stats and member account numbers.

    I am making an assumption but I'm sure everyone misses a safety step in our daily lives like driving their vehicle, Not using turn signals, mirror turning and not physically looking, But the dealership will still sell you a car.

    I'm not justifying lack of safe driving but who are we to police?

    Also, I'm making an assumption but I don't know if everyone on hear selling has a business licenses to sell items. I'm sure most do but there are risks involved selling without a license. So I would assume folks selling parts know the risks of selling to someone. I believe it should be up to you the individual seller to make that judgment call to sell to folk not a group vote of who has what experience.

  9. #19
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    Hey Steve -

    Thank you, Sir, for speaking out... Amen to everything you said and point you made.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielbriggs View Post
    How do you all suppose I implement this into the group buy?

    I've thought long and hard about the safety side, but deemed it too hard to "police".
    Here's my simple suggestion (since, yes, 'ILDA-membership', post-counts, in-and-of themselves, mean zero... ie: an 'ILDA-member' allowed (cause they 'subbed-it out') THIS to happen on national TV... )

    Just Say No. Just don't sell to anyone you don't KNOW and/or at-least know-of their experience-level. Period. Don't let the lure of making a quick-buck, allow you to be part of what *could* turn-out to be a disaster.

    Sure, might turn-out fine. But, think of it this way: (I always seem go back to guns, for some reason ) - it is your *right* to sell your gun to someone. It is the buyers *right* to buy and own it. But if you are the one that sells that pistol to a 13 yr old (or 12 or 18 or 26 - the age does not matter - point is: someone who's experience-level is in-question) - that ends up *accidentally* shooting his little brother in the face - How are you gonna feel, later??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielbriggs View Post
    But who am I to decide what people can and can't do?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattatya View Post
    ...but who are we to police?
    You guys are EVERYthing. The buck stops with you. Either you sell to someone you don't KNOW / at-least attempt to 'verify' thier qualifications / experience-level - or you don't.

    Remember my 'scoffed-at'...

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Ben View Post
    Do you think I am considered "Qualified" in your mind Jon?
    ...attempt to *ask* a seller to ASK before he just-sold? http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...897#post143897
    I can at least feel better, knowing I TRIED. Hopefully, whomever ended-up buying that Laserscope (for a 1/10th of its' value ) will turn-out to have-been a responsible / experienced - and with Class IV/pulsed lasers - laserist, vs a... well, I'm sure you all know what I am thinking, there...

    That's my suggestion. KNOW YOUR BUYER / at least, 'INTERVIEW' them / ask for thier 'qualifications' - if they 'get offended', imo, they don't *deserve* to own something like this, and that is probably a good indicator of thier 'maturity-level'... maybe.

    THIS IS A CLASS IV LASER PRODUCT, PEOPLE!!!!
    THINK before you sell, that's all...

    peace..
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  10. #20
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    I applaud Steve for the notice, it contains information I did not know and raises more concern with me for these diodes than I already had - thanks!

    This notice should be included with every diode sold in the group buys.

    It may also be time to come up with a PL -responsibility- logo. Nothing technical like a lab warning sticker but a nice logo that shows and reflects the responsibility, skills and knowledge shared here on PL. Something like a mix of: "proud to be a laseritst" and "eye safety first".

    Like Steve said, self regulation is the key to freedom. Otherwise the blue diodes may be more of a game changer than we bargained for.

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