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Thread: can i scan the audiance with this laser?

  1. #1
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    Question can i scan the audiance with this laser?

    i have a red green yellow laser i made.
    it has 50mw green, 100mw red diode, and a set of scanpro20s in it.
    what will i have to do to be able to scan the audiance with this laser?
    any info would be greatly appreciated.
    thanks and God bless.

  2. #2
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    In short, no, you can't. For more informaiton PM buffo, mixedgas or... No they are the best two.
    Love, peace, and grease,

    allthat... aka: aaron@pangolin

  3. #3
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    mixedgas is online now Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
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    Without a audience scanning variance, a scanfail device, and a accurate power meter, a accurate oscilloscope, some lenses, and decent software like Pangolin Intro, the answer is no. There are very few audience scanning variances in the US. Its not as easy as just using a particular projector, there is considerable art and some math behind it, plus masking, safety zones done in software, and the need for trained operators

    Overseas, fine, but in the US, NO.

    You can join ILDA and assist in the attempt to change the rules and allow 10X the MPE (maximum permissable exposure) audience scanning in the US.

    Even if you object to the principles of the rules, defacto performing with audience scanning opens you to liability.

    Steve
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommylee333 View Post
    i have a red green yellow laser i made.
    If you made the laser projector is it CDRH varianced?

  5. #5
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    i have read all the stuff on the forums and several other sites. but i can't do the math.
    is there some kind of lens, or defractor, you can use in front of your laser, to scatter the beams so they are legal?
    they say it is legal to scan an audiance with a 5mw laser.
    but who could see that in a night club?
    it would be to dim to have any effect.
    thanks for any advice and God bless.

  6. #6
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    Tommylee-

    with all due respect, if you cant do the math and your asking the questions about a lens to defract the beams (or close to that effect) you can not legally/safely audience scan. Plain and simple. Not to mention the fact that in order to do it properly, safely, legally and without fear of accidents, you need THOUSANDS (literally) of dollars worth of equipment. (Calibrated meter, O-scope, scan fail systems).

    I have been in business for over 5 years and i am still an EXTREME newbie in this industy. I have probably ~500 professional paying shows under my belt and *I* do not have the confidence in myself to audience scan as safe as it only should be performed. I have the $2000 meter. I have the O-scope, but i dont have the experience and the technical know-how.

    In my personal opinion, Audience scanning, is not a necessity of a show for it to be a "wow" factor event. A good operator with good artistic ability to use the laser as a medium to express themselves and the music is the real "wow" factor.

    I (and probably everyone else here) applaud you for being responsible and asking the questions here first *before* just going out and doing it! Kudos my friend!

    keep the audience scanning out of your bag of tricks for now. It isnt needed.

    -Marc
    http://www.laserist.org/images/ildalogos/ILDA-logo_colored-beams_Corporate_150w.jpg

    ILDA- U.S. Laser Regulatory Committee

    Authorized Dealer for:

    • Pangolin Laser Software and Hardware
    • KVANT Laser Modules & Laser Systems
    • X-Laser USA
    • CNI Lasers
    • Cambridge Technology & Eye Magic Professional Scanning Systems

    FDA/CDRH Certified Professional LuminanceRGB Laser Light Show Systems


  7. #7
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    Default thanks

    i really appreciate all the help and info all of you have taken to help me.
    so i just need to keep my laser beam well above the audiance and on the stage with the band.
    may God bless all of you.

  8. #8
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    so i just need to keep my laser beam well above the audiance and on the stage with the band
    I'm not from the US, so apologies if I've got this wrong (and someone will correct me I'm sure) but if you built that projector yourself you shouldn't have it out on a show at all until it is varianced and you have a variance for the show. Until then you are breaking the law, crowd scanning or not.
    Whether you consider that a hindrance to doing the show or not is purely down to you and your conscience. Some people consider the whole process to be purely beaurocratic, others as an essential safety net.

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    Default varianced

    what is varianced for the show? God bless.

  10. #10
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    Tommylee-

    In the U.S. Lasers are governed and regulated by the FDA/CDRH under a set of Federal Regulations. (21 CFR Part 1040) (There are a few other parts also. but that is the main section). They have set the limit of MPE (Maximum Permissible Exposure) for the public to ~5mW (actually, to be exact it's 4.95mW). At 5mW, it is assumed, that under *normal* circumstances the beam can be considered safe for people to be exposed to it. There *are* extenuating circumstances in which even this relatively lower power can cause harm. These extenuating circumstances are very rare or if achieved, usually represent a negligent situation, but the fact of the matter is there *can* be unsafe situations where 5mW is unsafe.

    What the FDA/CDRH says is that if you want to use lasers in a public setting, where there will be people exposed to that radiation, they want to make sure that the lasers meet a set of safety requirements. Even a 5mW Laser used in public is "technically" supposed to have certain safety features built into the unit. However they do not require a variance.

    What the variance is is a formal request of you asking the FDA/CDRH to "deviate" from the federal regulations to allow for the >5mW laser in public. The variance process will have you provide and explain your alternate means of radiation safety (among other things) and will ask you why you want to use these higher powers.

    However- On top of this, you have to prove that the equipment you are using or planning on using is compliant with these regulations. This is where a "Product Report" is needed on your laser system. A Product report is a ~30pg document where you, in detail, provide specifics on your particular laser system and *exactly* how it was designed and manufactured.

    These are not fun processes! And if you *ever* decided to attempt *legal* and *safe* audience scanning, you are in for a WORLD of complexity. reports, papaers, studies, measurements, inspections (lots of inspections!!!) and months of months of submissions, denials, approvals. To put it blatantly simple- A "newbie" with a homebrew laser projector would be *VERRRRRRY* hard pressed to get approved to do an audience scanning show. And even if they *did* get approved, i am guessing it would probably take at least a year of planning and communications with the CDRH for it to come to fruition.

    Download THIS from my website. These are many of the reports, weblinks, and information regarding Laser rules and regs here in the U.S.

    Let us know when your head stops spinning around!!! LOL...

    It really is great to see you asking so many questions! Very refreshing!!

    -Marc
    http://www.laserist.org/images/ildalogos/ILDA-logo_colored-beams_Corporate_150w.jpg

    ILDA- U.S. Laser Regulatory Committee

    Authorized Dealer for:

    • Pangolin Laser Software and Hardware
    • KVANT Laser Modules & Laser Systems
    • X-Laser USA
    • CNI Lasers
    • Cambridge Technology & Eye Magic Professional Scanning Systems

    FDA/CDRH Certified Professional LuminanceRGB Laser Light Show Systems


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