Release forms when purchasing a laser.

[Bradfo69]

Thanks guys! All good stuff and it will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I'm all for the education and learning experience of getting this taken care of the right way. (And patient enough to wait it out and deal with the potential mods and paperwork.)

In the back of my mind, I questioned the likelyhood of the seller having gotten a chinese laser varianced and would have liked to known more but, when time is ticking on the close of an auction, I figured I'd take a chance. The retail DID seem to be just under $7500 and I got it for $975. I can't imagine that an RGB in the 830mw range can be had for anything close to that new from a US company.

Still a bit new to this. What generally is it about foreign made projectors that seem to be the biggest issues with making them acceptable to FDA and CDRH? I understand that some you come across are just not well built, with cheap wiring, smelly glues, some poorly made or aligned components etc. That all seems quite obvious. But, I've seen some that are built in solid enclosures, with PCB's and wiring that look equal to any decent electronic device, have key locks with decent keys (not the cheap flimsy tin), safety interlocks, warning labels (that are grammatically correct!) etc, and by all accounts give the appearance of being solid, well made devices.

From a business standpoint, it would seem to me that these manufacturers would WANT to make a product that could legally be sold where a majority of people might be interested in buying them. Although I guess they have a big enough market in Europe.

Just musing...

Should be in transit from California as I type this and I'll keep the dialogue going as I get more information. (And perhaps throw it in the trunk before leaving for SELEM.)

Thanks!
~Brad

[buffo]

What generally is it about foreign made projectors that seem to be the biggest issues with making them acceptable to FDA and CDRH? I understand that some you come across are just not well built, with cheap wiring, smelly glues, some poorly made or aligned components etc. That all seems quite obvious. But, I've seen some that are built in solid enclosures, with PCB's and wiring that look equal to any decent electronic device, have key locks with decent keys (not the cheap flimsy tin), safety interlocks, warning labels (that are grammatically correct!) etc, and by all accounts give the appearance of being solid, well made devices.

Truthfully, the shoddy components you find inside some Chinese products are not the real problem. It's things like a lack of labels, interlocks, shutters, and emission indicators that make them impossible to certify, not the poor quality of the hardware.

True, when people modify one of these units to make it compliant (so they can get their variance), they usually end up replacing some of the other components inside as well, simply because they want the unit to perform well, but they *could* get a variance for it even with the crappy scanners and under-powered lasers and lousy optics installed. So long as the unit meets the specs listed on the variance (and the labels), it's OK - even if it's junk.

The other piece of the puzzle is the documentation process. Remember that the laser manufacturer has to maintain files on every projector sold. Those records are required for recall purposes, and must be able to be inspected by the CDRH upon request. Kinda hard to do that when the company is in China though...

You mentioned that you've seen some products that do appear to have all the proper interlocks and labeling. Typically, a Chinese import will not have the features you described. However, even if one did, it would still need to have an accession number to be legal. And that would require a manufacturer's presence here in the US to maintain the records for that accession number. (I'll let you take a guess as to how many there actually are... )

From a business standpoint, it would seem to me that these manufacturers would WANT to make a product that could legally be sold where a majority of people might be interested in buying them. Although I guess they have a big enough market in Europe.

Well, up until now they've been able to sell them here illegally, so why spend the extra money to comply with the US laws if they don't have to? I know that sounds awful, but it's basically true.

The CDRH is chronically over-worked and under-staffed. Enforcement is very difficult when they are spread so thin. Thus, many illegal importers simply choose to fly below the radar, and if one of their shipments gets intercepted at customs, then that's just the cost of doing business. It's still cheaper for them to do it illegally, even with the occasional loss. Crazy, huh?

This is why it's so hard for legitimate US laser projector manufacturing companies to compete with the crap you see on E-bay. Most laser buyers in the entertainment market don't know the rules, and the illegal importers count on this fact. So they pitch a product that is priced artificially low, and the uninformed buyers get suckered.

Adam

[DanG]

I would add that the point has to be considered from the perspective of a volume distributor. Every time someone touches a product it costs the manufacturer money and in the case of having to do special things like replacing parts, doing different stickers, etc. it can cost a lot of money and then you have to work out your distribution network so that only THAT product makes it into a particular market.

When a manufacturer can sell 10,000 units to Africa and South America in a month why would they go to all of that trouble to modify the piece to sell maybe a couple hundred units in the US?

For one unit, MAYBE this is worth it. But when there are 100 models in production it is impossible to make that work. Not for nothing but every time someone in the US buys one of these systems, including and I mean no offense but folks here as well, they support the notion that these manufacturers can break our laws without consequence.

For many of these companies they will follow the money to be made. We as a country have a lot of money so they will sell the product however they can at the lowest possible build cost.... and then the dominoes begin to fall.

Imagine what would have happened if that club in Vegas was unable to sell the laser system because folks knew that it was probably illegal. Their unhappiness over the situation would have spread in a small but meaningful way throughout their sphere of influence and for a small part of that market they would have become a cautionary tale. As it is, they have suffered no consequence from buying what we are assuming is an illegal laser system and were able to dispose of it and make some money back at will. There is now no disincentive for them to just go and do it again and no cautionary tale for the people they talk to.

I am not trying to be preachy but that is the reality of the situation: people who don't know better buy the product, people who know better but feel entitled to be able to buy it by virtue of having a variance buy the product, and the people who know better but don't care buy the product, and then people buy it second hand alleviating the original purchaser of the responsibility and protecting them from the financial loss. All of this creates a demand for non-compliant product and so that demand will be filled one way or another.

Again, I am not trying to come down on you or anyone else but I feel that we, and I include myself in that, are too often divorced from the larger picture about how our individual actions impact the marketplace as a whole. But, specifically, that is a big part of the answer to your question.

[Bradfo69]

You know.... it's funny. There is amazing the amount of knowledge I'm gaining as a result of wanting to display a bride and grooms names and wedding date on the wall or, perhaps have a liquid sky effect way up over the dancefloor during the playing of a song or two!

I guess there is something to be said for a mirrorball and a pinspot! ;-)