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Thread: simple automated animation show: RIYA vs KAM tri260

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    glasgow
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    Default simple automated animation show: RIYA vs KAM tri260

    Hi there,
    new here and to the world of lasers: Dav from Glasgow,
    usually dealing with video projections, general sound-midi type projects and all round creative tech recently enlisted to help with one of those "art projects" involving laser animation... it wasnt long until i stumbled on PhotonLexicon.
    Ive been spending the last couple of day digging posts on the forum and i think im starting to get the general jist of things, so im adventuring into my first post, please be gentle.

    the brief:
    required: a bicoloured (red and green) animation projected on a small wall (about 4m wide) displaying a "conversation" between red and green words/short sentences as if they were lines from a dialogue from a subtitled movie.
    the conversation can be very basic and the shape of the letters can be of low quality (no high speed servos required here) but the timing of each word/line of text is critical to keep a good flow for the piece.
    ideally, the system will be automated so that any gallery invigilator can turn the system and have it running automatically.

    the budget: very small (in comparison to the systems recommended by the forum users), timescale are short (1 month from now for finished system), and the artist is wanting to be able to program the text himself, so solutions with easy learning curve are required.

    Ive been looking at ILDA lasershow controllers and laser units that can operate from a SD card regarding the automation requirements, as well as ILDA programming software with a decent timeline function and im currently looking at 2 systems that id like some informed opinions from you guys on if youve got time:

    option 1> KAM tri260:
    > RGY animation laser with SD card interface
    >Colour: Red 140mW @ 650nm
    >Green 120mW @ 532nm
    Shock horror... how such a low budget piece of **** could even get a mention in this reputable forum? ive searched many a thread and no mention of the thing... does anyone have any experience of it?
    it would be very suited to my needs as it combines the projector and show player in one unit and has 2 colours.
    possible issues:
    >low quality and reliability: im ready to live with these as the unit price would fit the target budget
    >unknown manufacturer support: what can i expect from Kam?
    >limited showfile size: the units manual stipulates that there is a maximum 260 files to be contained on a 3Gb card. this should amount to around 250 (words/sentences) graphics files and a couple of ILDA showfiles? this might just be enough to start with, unless ive got the wrong end of the stick. Kam recommends their own laser software that looks dreadful but im hoping to be able to use something else (more on this later).

    Option 2:RIYA multibus basic controller and separate RGY ILDA projector
    these controllers look great and Ihor seems to be on the case with support, what would be a reliable yet affordable RGY projector to match this unit that i could get hold of, preferably in the uk? (recommendations please)

    as for the programming of these units, all i really need is easy text generation (bigger range of fonts is better) and an accurate timeline that would let me sequence hundreds of graphics with easily adjustable timing.
    Spaghetti looks great to me (will work with RIYA and hopefully with KAM), any other suggestions?

    thanks in advance

    david

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Southport, UK
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    Default

    I have seen the 160 version (same red but 30mW green). The green on the 160mW version completely obliterates the red, so the red will be useless in this unit.

    For the money that thing is listed for you could build your own 'proper' laser projector from quality parts with actual warranty backup and suppliers that answer the phone and offer as much help as you need.

    Contact Stanwax on this forum, he will advise you honestly about the best, most cost effective way of going about it.

    Ian
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    2,147,488,382

    Thumbs up

    I second Doc's suggestion: Get in touch with Rob (Stanwax).

    Since you're in Scotland, you're a bit far by car from his location, but even so, a road trip would prove most helpful (and educational). Rob is an absolutely awesome guy, and you can take that to the bank. He will give you honest advice, and if you decide to have him build you a projector, I promise you will be exceedingly pleased with his work.

    Adam

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    The Netherlands
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    Default

    If the show is always the same you could also use a Pangolin FB3.
    There is an xD card in there were you can store files also and make it start automatically.
    I thought you needed to place the animation you wanted into the first slot via the software, after that you don't need a pc anymore to play back animations.
    All you need is like a Blackberry adaptor to power it (5 volt on a USB connector) and when you turn it on it starts playing automatically without the need of a laptop.
    I didn't fail !
    I just found out 10,000 ways that didn't work.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    glasgow
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    Default

    thanks for your replies,

    @ian:
    i haven't seen the Kam in action so thanks for pointing out the discrepancy in power between the 2 colours- however, as the text piece is still to be devised, this issue could be tricked out by using small red word and big green ones? as i said before, it's for a small-ish wall piece so the projector need not to be super bright.

    @ian and adam:
    thanks for the contact suggestion, i'll get in touch with Rob, i'm in the liverpool area once in a while but probably not in the next month.

    @hobbibob:
    thanks for the FB3 link,
    had missed out this one and at 500 including quickshow software, it's actually not as expensive as i thought, but still quite a bit more than some of the other SD readers i've been looking at. would be a good investment for the future.

    So, it's now looking that i'm on track for my SD reader solution,
    still investigating these:
    showtacle ILDA player (490 euro)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SDPlayerBack.png 
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ID:	18604

    ILDA player from NRG (ebay)
    uk seller with 100% feedback


    i'm also yet to source a decent off-the-shelf ILDA RGY unit that competes with the Kam solution (250mW combined),
    any pointers?


    many thanks for bearing with my newbie requests,

    dav

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex, England
    Posts
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    Default

    One thing I will add about any projector you look at - although you say 'simple text and short words' that is actually a reasonable challenging task for a set of scanners (in my experience anyway). I've found that 15-20k scanners struggle to write words of any length without significant flicker, so you may wish to try what you are planning on any prospective projector first, to avoid dissappointment.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
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    Default

    You should definitely keep the RIYA and LDS on your list. The riya player will automatically play from the SD card on startup, and LDS (Laser Design Studio) enables you to create sophisticated time-line art including text with 20 built-in laser optimized fonts which will work fine with 20k scanners, and the ability to load true type fonts as well. If you wanted to do more in the future, this combo allows you to do much more as well.

  8. #8
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    Feb 2008
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    East Sussex, England
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    Default

    laser optimized fonts
    Do you know of any fonts that are particularly well optimized for laser use generally?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Cleveland, Ohio
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    Default

    There really isn't such thing as a laser optimized truetype font, here's why.
    True type converted fonts are defined as outlines, whereas laser optimized fonts generally are centerline-traced fonts although they can be outlines as well. A centerline traced font will scan about twice as fast as a converted outline truetype font. This is why the laser optimized fonts are built-in.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    glasgow
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    Default

    Hi everyone,

    just a quick update on the assignement:
    after some research based on the advice received on this thread, here's my current leading option:
    new RGY500= 350mW red 650nm + 150mW green 532nm with ILDA port and 20K scanners
    + Quickshow including FB3 with SD card
    +flightcase
    uk seller with good feedback, 12 month warranty
    1000ish

    got a feeling we're getting there.

    thanks everyone for their help and other helpful offers to date.


    dav


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