Phoenix LIVE version 3.3 is now available

[White-Light]

I'm thinking to go with Pangolin instead.

You won't regret it.

Their customer service is second to none. Even the CEO comes on here occasionally and is available to help you personally if no-one else can.

If you're at the $2,000 level I suggest waiting for Pangolin BEYOND (launch date 16th July). If you can't wait that long for show reasons, users who buy LD2000 between now and the 16th July will get a free upgrade to BEYOND when its released (however I think this upgrade will be software only as BEYOND runs on the LD hardware boards - however, BEYOND has some new improved hardware coming with it so it's probably worth waiting if you can).

Alternatively you get Quick Show if you want a cheaper system or want something for live performance now and buy BEYOND later keeping QS then as a backup system. QS costs around $600 but is very capable. Several people on here are using it professionally for big shows.

No dongles on Pangolin and all updates to the software is free (unless a completely new system comes out). eg LD2000 owners have had 10 years of free updates. QS 1.0 users got QS 2.0 for free.

[masterpj]

Go with pangolin yeah, best costumer support I have ever seen in my whole life.
*I'm serious*

[JoJo]

You paid over $2000 on the Phoenix Pro and spent weeks making all the designs, the system ready to go. During the show installation you lost or stopworking the Dongle. You called Phoenix and they said "Sorry you must purchase another licence".

This is a common problem with software using dongles. It is NOT a special Phoenix problem!
The software key (dongle) IS THE SOFTWARE. You can transfer it from one PC to the other and start the software on which PC you want. As long as you carry the dongle with you, you carry the software with you.
This gives most flexibility but the user has to know about possible risk.
If you forget your notebook at the bus station and it is lost, do you want a free replacement from the notebook manufacturer?

There are different licensing possibilities for software:
1.
The license is implemented in the hardware, like Pangolin does with the QM2000.
No dongle can be lost. The chance to loose the card is very small. But you have to use this specific card!
The card is bigger and in most cases mounted into the PC. But if you ever loose it, ask Pangolin and I am sure that they will send you new card via overnight express shipping, all for free.

2.
You get a license to run the software on a specific PC using specific hardware information of the PC.
I think I don't need to explain the disadvantages of this kind of licensing system.
Most software uses this system, including the most common operating system.
You can normally change the PC by disabling the license on one PC and enabling it on another PC using some online tools from the software manufacturer.
But: if your PC has a hardware defect and the license cannot be disabled on that PC, it is not easy to get a replacement license from the software manufacturer.

3.
You get a dongle as the software key. This offers the most flexibility. But you have to know that the dongle is the only identification part of your software license. Even if the dongle seems cheap and small, it represents the complete price of the software. So if I were you, I would NEVER carry this dongle in my pants pocket.
At least, you should use a lanyard.
If you have a defective dongle (which sometimes happens), I am sure that you can get a new one by sending it back. But if you have lost the dongle, nobody can verify if you really have lost it or sold it in Ebay.
You will NEVER get a free replacement dongle for a lost one! It does not matter which software it is!

Is the software or the customer support bad, because people don't take care of the dongles?
You watch out for your money, so why don't you do this for your $2000 dongle?
I know about customers who threw away their Mamba dongle, because they thought that the dongle is a free gift (a memory stick). Once the "memory stick" was not working, they threw it into garbage.
What would YOU answer such a customer who phones you and wants a replacement dongle from you?

"My Mercedes crashed into a house after I set it to cruise control and removed my hands from the steering wheel. And the bad car manufacturer doesn't want to give me a new car and pay for the damage.
Do NOT buy a Mercedes! Their customer support sucks!"

Joachim

[masterpj]

almost right with 1.
you need to pay if you loose say a QM card.
but you pay only for the costs they make and they don't make profit out of that.
Kinda obvious as your loss of hardware shouldn't be their loss of profit.
This is fair and understandable though other then buying a complete new license.

and well I think a dongle can be good when it comes to using a other laptop.. but the idea of losing it is for me a very big -
I'm very glad about the QM =)
also it not being to small means you won't loose it too easly
and with the build in QM there is no excuse for losing

[White-Light]

Actually if I lost my dongle (if I had one), I'd expect the manufacturer to replace it at cost using their sales records to verify the fact that I was a genuine customer. I wouldn't expect them to seek to charge me for an entire new package.

That said, I can see the problem with dongles. Rely on them for security and someone can dishonestly buy a replacement then install the software on another pc for the cost of the dongle not the software.

I think Phoenix need to take a view on the original posters position and decide whether he's genuine or not and in the longer term whether dongles are the right way to go.

In the meantime, Pangolin offers a dongle free way to proceed if the answer isn't satisfactory.

[greenalien]

Just to update this thread - Phoenix Live is now up to version 3.5 - there's been no fee charged for updates subsequent to 3.3, but the promised replacement for PicEdit (the bundled graphics creation module) and an updated English instruction manual (the current version is a couple of years out of date!!) are yet to appear...
On a positive note, their update process has now been automated, so updates / bug fixes appear as soon as they are released and you get notified and given the immediate opportunity to download and install them. So far, this has worked well. Latest version also includes limited timeline programming capabilities, so it's more versatile.

** Current version is now 4.0; Phoenix Live has been bought by Pangolin, with the promise of no more upgrade fees, so version 4 seems like a good investment!

[gravity]

I have both quick show and Phoenix 3 Live. . I prefer the new phoenix 4 but Phoenix 3 live is just as good as phoenix 4. The new version has some nice tweaks and updates but I'm fine using phoenix 3 live. My laptop recently just died and is no more. I tried installing the old version but I'm having trouble locating the drivers. . . I see no options for it on the disc or online. . .anyone know where I can find the drivers??

[greenalien]

There doesn't seem to be any Phoenix 3 downloads on their website any more - http://www.phoenix-showcontroller.de - the only ongoing support is for Phoenix 4 - which has now been bought out by Pangolin. However, all the drivers should be on your Phoenix 3 CD; the only other option is to upgrade to version 4, but that's not free.

[VJ AIWAZ]

well i think it is free now from what i found on pangolin/phoenix site

https://www.pangolin.com/orders/phoenix.php

[greenalien]

If you have Phoenix 3 and a dongle, it must be worth a go! Previously, the only free upgrades were from Live 3.3 onwards, so if you have an earlier version of Live 3, you could be in luck! However, I think you may also need a firmware upgrade to the USB DAC interface, I seem to remember something changing when 3.3 came out. One of the things I've always admired about Pangolin is that they don't charge for upgrades, and they did say in their press release on acquiring Phoenix that they would maintain this policy with Phoenix as well.