Quickshow 2.0 BETA now available!

[smokeAndMirrors]

What flecom said. $75 for DVDs is pushing it (over $100 by the time shipping is included).

As a matter of interest, the software product (download only) I work on is very data-intensive, and we push out downloads in excess of 1GB several times a year.

[mophead]

The way I see it:

I bought the FB3 long before Quickshow was out (or even rumored) and now it's up to version 2.0, all at no additional charge. That's a pretty sweet deal in my opinion.

Now, I realize that 4 DVD's don't cost 75 in materials, but they did have to take the time to film the tutorials, make the DVD's, ect. That process cost them real money. Manpower and their labor isn't free. It would be nice to be able to just download them , but hey, I'll watch some on youtube and if they seem worth the price, we'll order them. No big deal really. No reason to get upset that every little thing isn't free.

Pangolin is a business. Businesses have to turn a profit to remain viable. Bill goes above and beyond what any other company CEO that I know - especially for us hobbyists.

Thanks Bill.

[smokeAndMirrors]

Pangolin is a business. Businesses have to turn a profit to remain viable. Bill goes above and beyond what any other company CEO that I know - especially for us hobbyists.

Actually I disagree here. My first contact with Pangolin was via a link on their website - to try out a demo copy of QS. The link turned out to be duff, and - a week later - when I emailed them directly asking why I hadn't had a reply, I got a snippy response from Bill (who failed to believe there was a broken link on their site despite the fact that they couldn't find my original request and that was somehow my fault). That generally set a bad tone for further contact. I have found them a bit un-cooperative, slightly arrogant. Their sales ops in Europe is patchy - a lot of very poor distributors who don't stock the whole product range.

I had a big issue with the differences between the FB3 SE and XE versions (eg one does DMX the other doesn't, but the one that doesn't is housed whilst the version that I wanted isn't so I incurred further cost because their product range is less than seamless and consistent. "Just make your own" wasn't very helpful, but that was one of their suggestions.

And finally one has to say that QS2 was promised in Feb and here we are in Sep and still no official release. Could be worth the wait, but Bill has ben saying "later this week" for several months now and that has affected my plans for a show in October because now there's no time to rebuild my current stuff. I appreciate honesty, and as a software developer I think it pays to let customers in on what's really going on rather than stringing them along.

Their technology is probably without peer - which is why they survive. Now I have the FB3 I'm very happy with it. Their own forum is very poor - both in terms of membership and response time by staff for even basic questions. Their website (it's huge and hard to find things), sales, marketing, and iffy bedside manner hardly lends me to worship them like some. And such things can hurt a business. They still have a way to go before they can count on my sycophancy.

[mophead]

- to try out a demo copy of QS.....


And finally one has to say that QS2 was promised in Feb and here we are in Sep and still no official release. that has affected my plans for a show in October because now there's no time to rebuild my current stuff.

No offense, but why build shows you are depending on based upon beta/test/demo software?

When Michelin (iI'm in the tire biz.) is releasing a new line of tires, I don't plan a sale/event/promo until we have the product in stock.

[smokeAndMirrors]

No offense, but why build shows you are depending on based upon beta/test/demo software?

When Michelin (iI'm in the tire biz.) is releasing a new line of tires, I don't plan a sale/event/promo until we have the product in stock.

Well I hoped to be able to use QS2, and held off for the "impending" release in July... then early August... then late August... then early September... No big deal, I have the contingency of QS1 / LQ, but it's annoying.

The software company I work for would be crucified for announcing a release in Feb and then taking till Sep. Why should Pangolin be different?

[White-Light]

The software company I work for would be crucified for announcing a release in Feb and then taking till Sep. Why should Pangolin be different?

Maybe because they don't release buggy software unlike many vendors. I'm not saying your company does, but with many game companies / OS system manufacturers and you see patch after patch to put right software that was on target but not bug free.

Pangolin generally release software that is complete and stable.

Also, Pangolin have added many more features, interface improvements and cue numbers based on user feedback that weren't probably foreseen when the initial estimate was drawn up. That has undoubtably added to the delay and pushed it beyond its estimated release date.

I for one would much rather have a stable complete programme than one rushed out just to meet a deadline.

[mikkojay]

Man, those promo videos have me drooling for a QM incarnation of this. I would gladly offer my services as a beta tester for that one! The design and layout look wonderful!
-Mike

[300EVIL]

...That process cost them real money. Manpower and their labor isn't free.

Pangolin is a business. Businesses have to turn a profit to remain viable. Bill goes above and beyond what any other company CEO that I know - especially for us hobbyists.

Thanks Bill.

I completely agree...

[smokeAndMirrors]

Maybe because they don't release buggy software unlike many vendors. I'm not saying your company does, but with many game companies / OS system manufacturers and you see patch after patch to put right software that was on target but not bug free.

Of course no-one wants buggy code. But if your motto is "never release unstable code" and the code is unstable, why would you promise release to customers? Ah, but of course - we are talking free upgrades here, they won't make any money out of it, they'd be nuts to invest a huge amount of resource to it, and that would be a business decision.

Pangolin generally release software that is complete and stable.

I can't deny I have been impressed with the stability of QS. Less so with LQ - operate it without an FB3, and the preview window locks up my PC eventually. I get a lot of exception reports (divide by zero) in the editor.

Also, Pangolin have added many more features, interface improvements and cue numbers based on user feedback that weren't probably foreseen when the initial estimate was drawn up. That has undoubtably added to the delay and pushed it beyond its estimated release date.

A phenomenon called "feature creep". Adding a new feature means a big QA job because you can't just test the feature, you have to test everything it interacts with directly and indirectly, and the latter is often an unknown. "Just one REALLY COOL feature" threatens the stability of the product, and good software engineers are wary of making these sort of self-indulgent changes.

I for one would much rather have a stable complete programme than one rushed out just to meet a deadline.

It's not a "deadline". It's an announced point release. But honestly, part of the art of software development as a business is being able to make and hit milestones pragmatically (though Agile Development has rather reshaped the landscape of late).

[White-Light]

I don't work for Pangolin so can't answer defintively, buit reading between the lines of what I do know:

Of course no-one wants buggy code. But if your motto is "never release unstable code" and the code is unstable, why would you promise release to customers?

I don't believe anyone ever said anything about anything being unstable. QS has always been stable.

I actually said that I thought Pangolins aim is and has always been to release bug free code. This is important for your reputation when the app involved is a mission critical app. ie if it fails your display fails. If that was their decision, then that is a business decision for them and the right one in my opinion, as they'd quickly lose customers if software stuttered halfway through a show due to a minor bug denying access to a feature or making something appear differently to what was anticipated.

A phenomenon called "feature creep".

Sometimes quite necessary. A feature that was added directly as a result of my feedback was a delete option for effects stored in favourites. Previously they couldn't be removed so if you added something more than once or wanted to change the content you couldn't. This shows how evolving feature sets can be very useful to the final programme.

Also, is anyone going to deny the value of Derek's new workspace? Arguably that was feature creep too but its made a hell of a difference to anyone interested in doing beam shows. QS went from 5 or 6 tame beam effects to 359 great effects. Of course hundreds of graphics were added also.

There has to be a line drawn but Pangolin have made all of the right decisions in my opinion based on the evolution I've seen.

I still think a 6 month delay is well worth it if the result is a bug free programme with lots of new essential features and hundreds of new cues.

Only my personal 2 cents though.