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Thread: So I've had a little while to think..

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default So I've had a little while to think..

    I figure not everyone here will care about this, which is perfectly fine and understandable, but I'm going to post it anyway. Sorry if it's long-winded.

    Back in April (I think) I stated an opinion that I had about certain members here that was improper and proven wrong.. A certain member-in-good-standing here (and apparently an all-around good guy according to most people here) who goes by dsli_jon decided that the best way to counter that opinion was by "calling me out" about it, comparing me to a complete moron. Obviously I got angry and the situation escalated from there, and has been carried on for some time thereafter in one form or another. In truth, I was responsible for it as much as anyone for posting an opinion which was false, even though at the time it made sense to me. I want to apologize for that to the community as a whole. Even (and especially) to you Jon, should you happen to read this. I'm sure that my opinion of you has been unfairly tainted by our past incessant battling. I'd like to try again with our relationship because I don't think either of us knows how the other really is, but I understand completely if you don't share the sentiment.

    One thing that has stuck with me ever since the April altercation is the sour taste that the experience left in my mouth. That experience compounded with similar experiences prior to that nearly made me quit associating with this community entirely. Before I continue I'd like to explain why:

    PL is a great source of information and many of the members here are first-rate individuals that have incredible knowledge. PL's positive influence on the laser community as a whole cannot be denied. But like everything in life PL also has a negative side, which was actually the first thing I experienced upon joining:

    Some PL members have real trouble accepting people and things that they either disagree with or do not understand. They blatantly belittle or act condescendingly towards these people. I know for a fact that quite a few perfectly good, decent folks who only wished to join this community and add their experiences and expertise have never returned after this kind of treatment in the past. I have little respect or tolerance for that because I know how that crap works firsthand from past experiences elsewhere in life. A member here recently said to me that PL members really aren't a very unfriendly bunch as a whole, which I suppose is true as long as you don't go against the grain. State an opinion that certain people don't share, or state feelings about situations/people that go against what others here think they should, and "friendliness" goes out the window, replaced by cold smugness and a complete lack of desire to try to understand.

    Just because a person doesn't agree with someone else or doesn't understand where they are coming from is no reason for derogatory, condescending behavior. PL is awesome, but it's not awesome enough to excuse that kind of bullshit. No one/no place is. I'm sure some people here might disagree with that, but it's the truth nonetheless. I believe a senior member here put their feelings on new people who contradict the PL status quo very well when they said: "Do not attempt to impose your personal requirements upon a pre-existing culture." as if to say "that's just how it is. If we're dicks to people who challenge our views, we're entitled to be that way because that's just how we are. We have an established community here and if you don't like the way we treat people, get lost." That's a total load of crap. Unfortunately, we are all able to act badly just as I did, but that doesn't make it right.

    That said, I know I'm a hothead. I run a tight ship in my life and career and I have pretty much zero tolerance for behavior that I consider ignorant or ill-thought-out. I also know that I melted down over the sum of the bad experiences I've had since I've been here recently, albeit purposefully, which affected much of this community since people were subjected to open hostilities etc. that had nothing to do with them. Buffo made me see the obvious error in my tactics (anger can cloud one's judgment considerably) and I have since apologized once and would like to do so again: I apologize to the whole community for being selfish with my actions. MY actions were ignorant and ill-thought-out (not to mention unpredictable) and I regret that immensely. No stress/pressure in life excuses it.

    Now that I've had some time to think about my issues with PL and some of it's members, I feel that this apology for my part in this mess is the least I can do. I sincerely hope that our relationship (myself and the PL community) can be continued and I hope that we can get it right this time.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Yorkshire, UK


    Hey Electrofreak.

    It takes real guts to post something like you've just done and i'm sure it will be welcomed and accepted by the whole community. Well done... Group hug anyone?

    I try to stear well clear of any drama on the forum as it serves no useful purpose. It's so difficult to get emotion into words written on a screen, and written words can so easily be misunderstood and taken out of context.

    Nice to have you back.

    Quote: "There is a theory which states that if ever, for any reason, anyone discovers what exactly the Universe is for and why it is here it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another that states that this has already happened.... Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Grand Rapids, Mi


    Welcome back!

    And i'm sure i did some prodding not understanding where you were coming from at times (being new to the scene here) for that I apologize as well.

    Take care hope to see ya around.
    leading in trailing technology

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Cleveland, Ohio


    Hey Electrofreak, glad to see you chilling out a bit and making the extra effort to come back. This is a diverse set of people behind computer screens and we don't fit well into one single culture.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Connecticut, USA


    Hey EF-

    This is a "community." And just as any other community where individuals reside, points of views will be challenged. Atitudes will get in the way and pride will always trump logic.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. i think you're a great guy (from the typing you put on your screen ) and i actually enjoy reading your "against the grain" opinions. Most of the time, they are very well substantiated with facts and passion. That is a good thing! i may not (and some others may not) always *agree* with your opinion, but i sincerely enjoy seeing a "differnet" point of view.

    I dont think anyone here is oppsed to differing opinions, but the biggest problem i think we all run into is interpreting ones "atitude" while typing a post, pm or reply.

    Perfect example- (sorry ireedz ) but i just met him (ireedz, ian) at SELEM. great guy, eager to learn and talk. a pleasure to meet. we got along great and we busted each others chops quite a bit while at the conference. If we had typed the way we spoke before we met, we woudl have wanted to KILL each other! but once we met, it was a different story.

    The shit you and john got into i could probably say with 90% certainty was misconstrued BS which was just compounded while trying to solve the issue over typed words on a screen. It aint gonna happen!

    Welcome back, and start questioning everything again!


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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Mesa, AZ


    Good show!!!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    The Netherlands


    Wow... this is really cool....
    Respect to both Elektrofreak and DSLI_Jon.... It takes a man to post something like this.
    Welcome back...
    I didn't fail !
    I just found out 10,000 ways that didn't work.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008


    Well said to both of you. I'm feeling the love.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Miami, FL


    told you all we needed was a group hug...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Southport, UK


    Good to hear that this is sorted out, I enjoy reading posts from both of you guys

    Doc's website

    The Health and Safety Act 1971

    Recklessly interfering with Darwins natural selection process, thereby extending the life cycle of dim-witted ignorami; thus perpetuating and magnifying the danger to us all, by enabling them to breed and walk amongst us, our children and loved ones.

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