Zero Point Energy, Perpetual motion is possible

[catalanjo]

Levitron is great.
Looks like magic and gets kids interested in how it works. Real Harry Potter stuff.

Reminds me of a box I built once for my daughter when she was a little kid.
Had a frame with a bicycle wheel being spun by a very quiet electric motor. hidden inside it.

You pushed it one way and fell over side ways. She really did want to see how it "worked".

Cheers

[Zoof]

levitron...hehe...it slows down and fails too.........hmmmmmmmm

Even when placed in a vacuum, apparently - but why, why, WHY ???????

[taggalucci]

Even when placed in a vacuum, apparently - but why, why, WHY ???????

I'd hazard a guess it's because of the "drag" of the opposing magnetic fields.

[Laserman532]

I'd hazard a guess it's because of the "drag" of the opposing magnetic fields.

i would assume that some of the "drag" is or can be caused by air resistance. However, being that the magnetic field flux lines between the magnet base and spinning top interact with each other (that is what keeps it floating) still encounter the "gate" during rotation. This magnetic field gate is the death of all magnet motor, perpetual motion devices. You have to have just enough inertia to pass the attraction gate to get to the repel gate.

With all that said...the device is brilliant and who ever invented it...i hope they were paid well beyond their imagination.

[Stoney3K]

My daddy always told me there was no such thing as a free lunch.

Seriously? You're the son of Robert Heinlein?

On the 'free energy' side of things, I'd put more money on Polywell Fusion as devised by Robert Bussard:

http://www.fusor.net/files/EMC2_FusionToPost.pdf

At least he's got calculations showing that this is not FREE energy, but just an efficient way of achieving D-D and p-B11 fusion. It's a variation on the Farnsworth fusor, and Bussard's company is currently working under a US Navy grant. And as far as I know, they don't give those to just anyone...

[Zoof]

i would assume that some of the "drag" is or can be caused by air resistance. However, being that the magnetic field flux lines between the magnet base and spinning top interact with each other (that is what keeps it floating) still encounter the "gate" during rotation. This magnetic field gate is the death of all magnet motor, perpetual motion devices. You have to have just enough inertia to pass the attraction gate to get to the repel gate.

what you describe should be energy conservative, thus as long at the rotor has enough momentum to get through the gates, it will keep turning without losing energy due to it.
The electromagnetic inductance (current) that will take place in conducting part in a varying magnetic field will cause an additional loss of energy.
A levitron in pure vacuum and in super conducting state ( at 0 K ??) would turn for ever - I suppose.

[Stoney3K]

A levitron in pure vacuum and in super conducting state ( at 0 K ??) would turn for ever - I suppose.

In theory, it would. If you ever saw the science experiment of a superconducting disc hovering over a set of magnets -- that's the exact same principle. Lenz' Law states that the eddy currents created in the disc oppose the changes in the external magnetic field, making it float.

In the real world, currents flow through metal, which will heat up as a result of the eddy currents, creating losses and slowing everything down. (This is put to good use in ED brakes on trains.) However, a superconductor has the property of conducting current with zero losses, so it can stay airborne forever. The only resistance it will face is air drag.

However, as we all know, even a pure vacuum does not exist (space has background particles), and it would only make an already existing motion continue on its path, never add any _new_ energy (e.g. have net energy gain).

[DanBarlow]

In theory, it would.

Actually not for the Levitron, it is rotating so it is sending out very low frequency radio waves and thus losing energy even if there were no other matter in the universe. Read about pulsars for the stellar equivalent, astronomers can tell their age by how much they've slowed down.

[Laserman532]

In theory, it would. If you ever saw the science experiment of a superconducting disc hovering over a set of magnets -- that's the exact same principle. Lenz' Law states that the eddy currents created in the disc oppose the changes in the external magnetic field, making it float.

In the real world, currents flow through metal, which will heat up as a result of the eddy currents, creating losses and slowing everything down. (This is put to good use in ED brakes on trains.) However, a superconductor has the property of conducting current with zero losses, so it can stay airborne forever. The only resistance it will face is air drag.

However, as we all know, even a pure vacuum does not exist (space has background particles), and it would only make an already existing motion continue on its path, never add any _new_ energy (e.g. have net energy gain).

please keep in mind that we are talking "free energy" or "zero point" energy or "over unity devices" So we are talking that the amount of energy that is produced is more than the amount of energy put in. A superconductor has zero losses, but if the superconductor was required to produce the energy to make the liquid nitrogen it would fail immediately.

In the levitron (which is probably the most efficient "perpetual motion like" machine) would benefit greatly if one could develop "a shield" that would minimize the repel force of the incoming gate, which would make the repel force of the outgoing gate stronger thus allowing longer spinning times. (if that makes any sense) OBTW- the perendev design states that they use rotor shielding on the magnets for this precise reason. The moment all of these devices are put under a load, they fail, therefore there ability to do 'work" simply looses luster immediately.

[Zoof]

once again, the repel force and other magnetic forces, as such, do not _consume_ energy.
Reducing the described gate effect by shielding allows the rotor to spin longer because the minimal speed at which it will still turn is lower, thus as it slows down gradually it can keep going longer before it has reached the speed at which the rotor does not have the momentum to push through the `gate' and stops.

BTW, the levitron does not have those `gates' that are formed by the alternating polarity of magnets placed side by side.
However it does wobble, which induced eddy currents and losses.

The radio waves is an interesting one !