Laser pointer possibly to become offensive weapons to own in the UK

[Eidetic]

The Wicked Laser Spyder III Arctic G2 I received a couple days ago is a dangerous thing. The "smart switch" is ridiculous. A complex method to turn it on, but no way to turn it off quickly with the hand holding the laser. It can't be cycled on and off with the side button. Ridiculous and absolutely unsafe.

The body of it is obviously made to be a handheld device only. No provision like a threaded hole to mount it to anything, no shutter on the front like every other Class 4 laser in the world, and no warning sticker on the laser (though one was included in the box to be applied by the user I guess, it's not the approved design or wording, and there's no room for it near the output aperture).

Obviously designed to be a "pointer" but the instructions advise against using it as such. What then is it TO be used for??? The beam is useless for any technical application I can think of because of the poor beam divergence and shape. This is a device that absolutely should be banned. It's exactly like selling a real gun to children who play with BB guns.

[flecom]

The Wicked Laser Spyder III Arctic G2 I received a couple days ago is a dangerous thing. The "smart switch" is ridiculous. A complex method to turn it on, but no way to turn it off quickly with the hand holding the laser. It can't be cycled on and off with the side button. Ridiculous and absolutely unsafe.

The body of it is obviously made to be a handheld device only. No provision like a threaded hole to mount it to anything, no shutter on the front like every other Class 4 laser in the world, and no warning sticker on the laser (though one was included in the box to be applied by the user I guess, it's not the approved design or wording, and there's no room for it near the output aperture).

Obviously designed to be a "pointer" but the instructions advise against using it as such. What then is it TO be used for??? The beam is useless for any technical application I can think of because of the poor beam divergence and shape. This is a device that absolutely should be banned. It's exactly like selling a real gun to children who play with BB guns.

clearly we should ban things that are bad to children... i recommend next we ban alcohol, because drunk drivers could hit a kid! actually we should ban any kind of motor vehicle, after all in the wrong hands thats definitely a weapon! and we should definitely ban pointy things, because they could put an eye out! and you mentioned BB guns, you can kill someone with a BB gun! we should ban those... and we should ban air-in-a-can and whipped cream because kids get high off of those things... we should also ban the INTERNET because its full of porn... and the bible because its full of murder/incest/other nasties... we should ban ipods/headphones/speakers because if kids play them too loud they can cause permanent hearing damage... we should ban ovens/stoves/soldering irons because they pose a SEVERE burn hazard! we should ban sushi because it can contain high levels of mercury... we should ban over the air radio and TV stations because the RF radiation they emit can be extremely hazardous and easy to go over MPE if your near the radio tower, which kids can easily do if they go play in the area! we should ban fast food, because it can lead to high cholesterol and heart problems...

even easier...
1 we should ban free speech, because someone might offend someone!
2 we should ban guns because clearly they pose a threat... roaming gangs of guns running around shooting people!
3 cant think of a good one for #3
4 we should randomly search peoples houses for said contraband
5 all suspects should be considered guilty if any contraband is found... after all if they weren't guilty why are they suspects?

I could go on...

but thankfully I live in the United States a (mostly) free country...

if you want to go live somewhere where the government dictates how you should live your life feel free to get the hell out of the US...

[DMills]

I really don't have an issue with closing down the stupidly high powered pointer market, but the thing to be very careful of is unintended side effects (as ever with law).

I could see badly written (or badly interpreted) law having a nasty effect on the availability of pump diodes, ktp, lbo, bbo, yag and vanidate, modules....

Actually drafting something that would be effective and that would NOT end up including the wrong kit is kind of hard (Include a couple of M4 threadded holes and "its is not a 'pointer' it is a battery powered OEM lab laser module in a round case....."), equally easy to accidentally go the other way.

As to the whole gun thing, different societies, different laws, what works for the EU probably would not work in the states and vice versa. Legalise gun ownership over here and so few people would be interested in owning (let alone practising regularly with the things (A prerequisite af actually being able to hit anything much)) that the deterrent effect would be near zero while massively increasing availability of the things to criminal types, a net loss. The same argument does not apply in the US where the availability is widespread already, and where a culture of gun ownership exists (At least outside the cities by and large).
Both sides of this one tend to use horriblly mutilated statistics to try to 'prove' their point, and so far as I can see only the true believers on whichever side is arguing care....

Regards, Dan.

[Eidetic]

You missed my point. This laser was designed to be a gun that looks like a toy, marketed to those who play with toys, by an unethical scumbag.

[flecom]

I agree that WL should be carpet bombed, but more laws never help anything

it takes one genius politician to say "wait why not just ban all lasers and then problem solved!"

[gottaluvlasers]

Frank and EF-

I am with you guys and your well stated threads. The only place where i disagree a little bit in the "banning" area is for a device that poses no "real world" realistic use.

Guns= has a VERY definitive real world, everyday realistic use. It can be used for sport, safety, defense, law enforcement peaceful uses, dangerous uses. I am 110% for freedom of gun ownership (i am a proud and responsible gun owner. as is my wife).

1 Watt blue handheld laser= has no "real world" realistic use. Star pointing? ummm....no. lol. light show? nope. holography? nope. security? nope. i mean seriously, what are the *PRACTICAL* uses for a 1W/ blue laser that can be held in your hand and operated like a flash light?

if there was a *legitimate* REAL WORLD use for this type of laser, than any manufacturer would have zero problems incorporating LEGITIMATE safety features into its operation. a LONG delay (30 secs or more). proper labeling. a REAL key operation. a shutter. so on and so forth.

now, am i saying to just outright ban these things? i honestly dont know. 1W blue lasers, green lasers, high powered HANDHELD lasers have no legitimate use other than improper, unsafe and potentially dangerous practices.

Just the very nature of their design poses serious questions as to their intended uses. putting a dangerous technology into a very small and easy to use package suggests and makes *POSSIBLE* mischief and dangerous operation almost a "duuuh."

If the design and technology poses no real world and realistic operational advantages for *GOOD* uses. than what is it designed and being used for? mischief. danger. most likely unsafe situations.

again, guns and almost *ALL* other dangerous items being dicussed here as the contrast of laser pointer bans have a design and a "real world" application. i use guns for sport. I use guns for safety. I use guns for family defense. Guns are used to enforce everyday laws and society.

What are *LASERS* (in general) used for? ok, these days....almost EVERYTHING. security, entertainment, medical, industrial, bla bla bla...you all know.

what are HANDHELD powerful lasers used for? I cant think of 3 REAL WORLD uses. ok, maybe 1- the new military/law enforcement laser dazzlers. but those are not (AFAIK) available to the public.

Back to the gun comparison i guess. Guns are legal here (under proper conditions) However, a *real* gun disguised as a toy gun or disguised as a bouquet of flowers or something is illegal. (or at least EXTREMELY hard to get a hold of and would require some SERIOUS explanations as to why you own one). the only practical purpose for a gun disguised as something it is not is for "not so good" uses. criminal activity, mischief, fear...whatever. If you want to be a RESPONSIBLE gunowner and use a gun for its intended purpose you arent going to be purchasing a gun disguised as something it is not.

If a scientist or a star gazer or ANYBODY wants to use a laser for its MILLIONS of *INTENDED* purposes, than they are not going to be buying a 1 watt blue laser that is disguised as a "pen" or disguised as a star wars weapon and marketed as such.

This is where my big problem with the high powered pointers are. There are no *real world* practical applications for them. At this point, they become a tool for mischief and unsafe operation in almost ALL situations. Do i own one? yep. Have i used it unsafely? YUP! have i burned shit with it? YUP!! we *ALL* have done those things which supports my point even further. They have no PRACTICAL uses except for activities which promote unsafe operation and dangerous practices.

these are a few of my views on it. Im not a big high powered pointer fan. thayre fun for about 20 minutes and then they pose no use to me at all. Ban them? i dont know....figure something out to make them MUCH MORE hard to get and the dangers more known....yeah, i think so!

-Marc

[flecom]

a *real* gun disguised as a toy gun or disguised as a bouquet of flowers or something is illegal. (or at least EXTREMELY hard to get a hold of and would require some SERIOUS explanations as to why you own one). the only practical purpose for a gun disguised as something it is not is for "not so good" uses. criminal activity, mischief, fear...whatever. If you want to be a RESPONSIBLE gunowner and use a gun for its intended purpose you arent going to be purchasing a gun disguised as something it is not.

actually if I had the money I could buy a fully automatic 9mm MP5 with the covert briefcase that has the trigger in the handle with only 2 tax stamps to the government that take about 90 days to come back

I agree that these pointers are bad for everyone/everything... problem is whenever you ban something the law is going to get twisted or written so poorly that I can almost guarantee you we are all going to suffer

[ElektroFreak]

@Marc: Actually I agree 100%.. my post was a little long-winded (as usual) but it's in there.. Overpowered laser pointers are NOT useful for self-defense or any other constructive use that I can see. I simply disagree with the logic behind blanket actions or outright banning something, but I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of overpowered laser pointers going the way of the dodo. Whatever the outcome, care needs to be taken in the methods applied so that we (the whole laser community) don't pay the price...

Personally I'm not overly concerned for the US community since I feel that the obvious course of action is for customs to crack down, and I think that our legislators know that. There's no need for actions that apply to OEM components or any of the parts and pieces we use to build our own systems.

[Eidetic]

This particular laser and others like it with this new diode are already banned. We just need to do what we can to inform the authorities of exactly how Wicked Lasers is skirting the laws. I know I'll be writing some emails and making a few phone calls. No new laws are needed.

[flecom]

This particular laser and others like it with this new diode are already banned. We just need to do what we can to inform the authorities of exactly how Wicked Lasers is skirting the laws. I know I'll be writing some emails and making a few phone calls. No new laws are needed.

yes but the thing is then you are relying on the customs drones to know the difference between a laser pointer and a laser module...