Another Laser Pointer Idiot

[Things]

The searchlight comment earlier is profound.. why aren't there restrictions on searchlights?

Searchlights are still fairly expensive technology. Searchlights of that power won't come under a couple hundred at least, even thousands, and what's the fun of a searchlight?? Idiots would much prefer a "lightsaber" than a bright torch

Building one yourself is possible, but like DIY lasers, people who have the knowledge to build the devices usually aren't the ones being idiots with them. Searchlight require glass bulbs under extremely high pressure (think grenade if you drop one ) and high voltages at high currents. Idiots that try to build them just to shoot at aircraft will soon eliminate themselves from the gene pool at some point.

[mixedgas]

[QUOTE=beamann;164841]Well said Elektrofreak
@ laserchik,
At this time in the U.S. If thair is no aircraft in the sky (air space) and you are not in a laser contorl area Class Brovo "B" air space or near any other airports that have a class Delta "D" Or class Charle "C" YES YOU CAN! A laser control areas are located about 10 miles from the center of air port, the closer you are with your laser the more restrictions you have on using it to the point you can not have it, on at all, outside.
========================================

Does not matter what class airspace your in. Its distance from the airport and exposure levels. Makes me wonder if you have ever submitted the paperwork in the past 10 years?

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi...R/air2901.html

Yes, you can, but NO, you cant. If your a commercial, scientific, or display application and your going into airspace, you had best report. FAA has a directive out requiring pilots to report all observed laser activity. ATC has a reporting form for observed activity. The last big outdoor show I worked on, pilots made reports of the terminated beams. Air band scanners are a wonderful thing

Now,
If your not doing a public show or not working for pay, If your in the middle of no where, well outside the distances mentioned in 7400.G or whatever revision letter it is these days. As a private individual, at low, low, low power, and you pay attention to what you are doing, and do not leave it unattended, No problem, have at it for a hour or two. Rules at that point are murky to non existent depending on what state your in. Just check a sectional chart and voluntarily follow the rules.


Quoting the wiki:

In the United States, laser airspace guidelines can be found in Federal Aviation Administration Order JO 7400.2 (Revision "G" as of April 2008), Procedures for Handling Airspace Matters, Part 6, Chapter 29, "Outdoor Laser Operations".[27] Bright light airspace guidelines are in Chapter 30, "High Intensity Light Operations".[28]


Search lights and other sources come under the rules as well, in chapter 30.

Quote:

"Bright light airspace guidelines are in Chapter 30, "High Intensity Light Operations".

Remember ladies and gents, children, and laserists, Pilots are NOT required to display their lights under certain weather circumstances, so don't assume that because you can't see them, they are not there...

Steve

[White-Light]

@Beamann, you talk of pilots being blinded but in actual fact I think we're nearly always talking flash blinded here as it would take a laser far more powerful than a pointer in most instances to expose a pilot to any kind of un-eye safe levels of laser light due to the distances involved between aircraft and pointer and the divergence of the beam.

That said, I don't downplay the potential dangers of flash blindness just pointing out that there's a lot of eye damage hype out there with regards to pilots and pointers when in reality the distances involved and the divergences are so great, exposure is only a fraction of that found in a nightclub. Event then I find it diffcult to believe that pilots are left unable to read instruments for minutes on end as people can go into an nightclub and be audience scanned (and have been at way over MPE) and yet can still see perfectly in the darkness after the beams has moved.

The only thing I can see posing a serious risk of actual eye damage is an aerial laser display using a pulsed laser (which if done responsibly and legally will be reported in advance to the FAA / CAA for all necessary permits / clearances thereby avoiding any chance of pilot exposure).

That said, overall, I'm not in any way playing down the stupidity of pointing pointers at aircraft. They clearly distract and that alone could cause a crash as could the loss of nightvision, if the beam was to be held permanently on the cockpit. I just don't believe the eye damage claims nor the prolonged loss of nightvision claims from a quick flash from a pointer.

However, I do hate pointer abuse and on distrction factor alone, these people deserved to be jailed if stupid enough to point them in the direction of aircraft.

On the ballon point, I'd have thought something far more dangerous at low altitudes were chinese lanterns.

[mixedgas]

[QUOTE=White-Light;164912]@Beamann, you talk of pilots being blinded but in actual fact I think we're nearly always talking flash blinded here as it would take a laser far more powerful than a pointer in most instances to expose a pilot to any kind of un-eye safe levels of laser light due to the distances involved between aircraft and pointer and the divergence of the beam.

End quote.

Here are some numbers, I'm being a bit conservative on the initial beam quality:


532 nm
1 watt
2 milliradian
1 mm diameter at source.
Visual correction factor, .88

NOHD 106 Meters
SZED 467 Meters
CZED 1420 Meters
LFED 4300 Meters

Steve

[ElektroFreak]

Searchlights are still fairly expensive technology. Searchlights of that power won't come under a couple hundred at least, even thousands, and what's the fun of a searchlight?? Idiots would much prefer a "lightsaber" than a bright torch

Building one yourself is possible, but like DIY lasers, people who have the knowledge to build the devices usually aren't the ones being idiots with them. Searchlight require glass bulbs under extremely high pressure (think grenade if you drop one ) and high voltages at high currents. Idiots that try to build them just to shoot at aircraft will soon eliminate themselves from the gene pool at some point.

True..

However, the context of the statement was that all lasers operating in airspace (including lasers that can ALSO be very, very expensive and hard to DIY) require FAA authorization and approval in the US, why don't searchlights? They would seem to easily be capable of flash blinding a pilot, and according to Steve they are governed by US regs. I don't think fun, DIY ability or "what's cool" has anything to do with why the FAA has these regulations. They've been in place with regard to laser shows since before pointers where any kind of a problem. You are correct that the idiot factor is less prevalent with searchlights though..

[mixedgas]

True..

However, the context of the statement was that all lasers operating in airspace (including lasers that can ALSO be very, very expensive and hard to DIY) require FAA authorization and approval in the US, why don't searchlights? They would seem to easily be capable of flash blinding a pilot, and according to Steve they are governed by US regs. I don't think fun, DIY ability or "what's cool" has anything to do with why the FAA has these regulations. They've been in place with regard to laser shows since before pointers where any kind of a problem. You are correct that the idiot factor is less prevalent with searchlights though..

I've found I can't download all of the the supposed 7400.G part 30 "HIL" chapter, but I did find this guy complying on a volunteer basis, note 2005 date, 5 years back. Not being able to download any FEDGOV paperwork, never shocks me anymore.

http://www.victorysearchlights.com/searchlight1.htm

Then this searchlight company has a member on SAE G-10, which means they are at least concerned:

http://www.sky-view.com/staff.htm

Another firm says they must report when "near airports".

So anyone find 7400.G chapter 30?

Steve

[Eidetic]

So it's illegal to point a laser into the sky anywhere in the Silicon Valley, because you're always less than ten miles to the center of the nearest airport. But here's a question: how about straight up, toward the zenith? Seems to me that a beam going straight up would be the safest. Anything but a helicopter would have all that metal between the pilot and the source. And what's the chance of one crossing that particular path? Still illegal, but a reasonable mitigation?

[beamann]

Thar is no place you can point a laser in the sky with out penetrating air space Class A, B, C, D, E, and G
A, G, and E air space being the most of them, class B which is all major airports and class C, And being military and your smaller airports, Class A, E, G air space fills all the rest that Class B, C, and D don't cover.
I menchend flash blined in my post several times. Here in AZ we had a DPS helicopter pilot flash blinded and was medicaly check out by a flight surgen and was determinde to have permanet damage to his eye as a result of a kid in Scottsdale AZ. The kid and controling parent were arested and are being charged. This happend in the last thirty days. You guys don't seem to be getting the point that it's if it's GREEN or RED laser light, the pilot only sees on comming air traffic that is bright enough to make the pilot look directly into the light to determin were he needs to go to avoide the mid air collision. The laser light being right on his windscreen Big and bright sees an air craft of inmediat impending death! Thats FIRST. Secound he now has been FLASH BLINDED from staring into the laser beam directly trying to determin the inmediat threat and the manuver to make has now got to look at his instruments (at night all pilot rely on thar instruments to fly) now has a FLASH IMPRINT on thar retina and every were they look have bright spot and trying to navagate an aircraft with instrument at NIGHT is now impossable untill the after image of being FLASHED BLINDED wares off 15 - 20 minets. My point being just like the night lights on boat which are the same as the nav lights on all aircraft (which by federal FAA law all aircraft must absulutly must have thar nav lights on at night! Exception is some military air monuvers and only for that piticular manuver with prior aproval) USE these nav light to determine how far, what direction, comming or going in relation to the aircraft the pilot is flying.EXAMPLE OF SENARIO: pilot flying along and out his right side periephral vision he sees a green light he turns his head to see what up with that and now he directly sees a big green light right on his windshield side screen this tells him that the on comming air craft is going roofly the same direction he is and at the same altitude and if the green light is bigger than a quarter he see death a comming and no way to get out of the way in time no matter how fast he reacts. Now put a red laser light in place of the green one now the pilot see death a comming from a head on direction. Yes the pilot will make it to the ground one way or another, if it's a walk away landing, the only mess to clean up is his pants and underware!
I will be laughing at all those who will be cought, any law ,has those who will do it any way no matter what Example: It's illegal to shoot and kill some that is in a non self defence manor and yet every day they put an idiot away!

[Eidetic]

Somebody needs to sober up before typing on the computer!

[beamann]

GET the F***K off the pot man! or what ever your on it's affecting you judgement! now unsuscribed to this thead.