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Thread: Here we go again..... Spacelas question

  1. #11
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    I have a spacelas 500mW RGV projector.. It came with the red diode driver board broken (a loose connection). But they were real helpful and responsive to emails. They offered to fix it for free, or send a new red module, but I managed to fix it by myself. Also the projector was kind of underpowered. It was advertised as 200/100/200 RGB, but it was really about 150/100/140.

  2. #12
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    Bradfo69 is offline Pending BST Forum Purchases: $47,127,283.53
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    Wow. I didn't expect my post to have stirred such passion! I fully agree that safety should be paramount and after spending a weekend at SELEM and Casey Stacks safety seminar, am even more in agreement. It even surprised me that the majority of enthusiasts from this board elected to move to the balcony in the theater and sit in the "scorch zone" of better than a dozen projectors. It IS the best view though! And, I'll admit there is a lot of scarey stuff out there between some of these pointers and crap projectors floating around.

    I primarily asked because I recall seeing the name Spacelas here in the forums and couldn't recall if they were primarily bashed (not unlike Laserworld) or, if they had an o.k. reputation. What I've gotten so far is that customer service is reasonably good and their galvos are not high end but, decent for the money. 2.5 watts for $2,600 plus shipping was just mighty tempting and even if you have to spend $1,000 to modify it to make it acceptable to CDRH you're still thousands ahead of the game based on what exisiting systems from US builders seem to cost. And c'mon... the people in the US seem to be building their systems with many of the parts shipped here out of China! I still think much of the added cost is paperwork/responsibility and the difference in labor rates. For the purists...what should a 2.5 watt RGB projector should REALLY cost these days? Average scanners - not Cambridge.

  3. #13
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    One thing I'd like to interject here is that I recommend checking out LKI: http://www.laserking.com.hk/

    I have one of their systems.. they are usually priced about the same as the other Chinese brands, but they use CNI laser heads. The system that I own is quite decent, especially for what it cost me. Not CDRH compliant, but good quality nonetheless.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElektroFreak View Post
    One thing I'd like to interject here is that I recommend checking out LKI: http://www.laserking.com.hk/

    I have one of their systems.. they are usually priced about the same as the other Chinese brands, but they use CNI laser heads. The system that I own is quite decent, especially for what it cost me. Not CDRH compliant, but good quality nonetheless.

    as far as i can tell the 640nm featuring 1.~ watter is the strongest that laser king makes.

    and sam at spacelas is a great CSR, how is the internal construction of that 500?

  5. #15
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    looks like you're right.. it's been awhile since I visited their site.. they used to have up to 3W IIRC. Too bad if they don't make them anymore.. great little projectors for the money.

  6. #16
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    right, i had requested price sheets/spec pages from them through email, and thats the highest i saw on there... this is the first i have seen of their site.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradfo69 View Post
    2.5 watts for $2,600 plus shipping was just mighty tempting and even if you have to spend $1,000 to modify it to make it acceptable to CDRH you're still thousands ahead of the game based on what exisiting systems from US builders seem to cost. And c'mon... the people in the US seem to be building their systems with many of the parts shipped here out of China! I still think much of the added cost is paperwork/responsibility and the difference in labor rates. For the purists...what should a 2.5 watt RGB projector should REALLY cost these days? Average scanners - not Cambridge.
    This is where I step up onto my soapbox - so apologies in advance.

    Brad do you really think that the difference between foreign manufacturer costs and US manufacturer costs is just a function of paperwork and labor rates?

    The drug analogy here is that a daily pill regimen for a really expensive medication like a protease inhibitor for treating HIV costs the drug manufacturer less then a dollar to make but they charge like $50 dollars for it. The point that everyone misses is that the first pill cost them $100,000,000.00 and thereafter each pill cost them a buck but they would be out of business in a heartbeat if they even charged double what it cost them because they would never recoup their costs much less make any money.

    Taking us a an example more on point, our first laser cost us over $50,000 in R&D, compliance, legal fees, tooling, sourcing, etc. If we amortize that cost over 500 units which it may take us two years to sell of that particular model, we add $100 to the purchase price per unit to do it right. Except in that time there is interest accruing on that money, and payroll having to be paid, and the electric bill, and people to serve the customers who buy it, etc all of which has to be paid while we are waiting to recoup an investment. I am not even going to get into the continual reinvestment that has to occur to stay viable.

    Given the shelf life of technology in this business, which by the way is an average of nine months, that initial outlay has to be recouped and a small profit has to be turned in that window. And that is for a product which can even sell 500 units which is a rarity considering all of the cheap non-compliant crap that takes customers out of the market.

    This is the fundamental problem why American manufacturing is getting beaten up by product from overseas in general, and in lasers specifically. What chance does an American company doing their best to respect our national laws have against those who simply don't and more to the point frequently build products with hidden defects and in a manner far below what US consumers would never accept if they knew better? But, by the time they figure that out, the money is spent and domestic, compliant industry never had a chance.

    Sure, you can find a half-way decently built laser overseas for somewhat less than a domestic one and commit two or three federal crimes (depending on who you ask) along the way. We can all chafe at what laserists and manufacturers go though here compared to those elsewhere. We can groan about the slowness of the variance process and lambast the complexity of domestic regulation, but you don't get to both buy illegal products AND complain, however gently, about the prices of legal ones. You have to pick one. The prices simply do not compare correctly on a business level, on a regulatory level and in most cases on an electro-mechanical level.

    I really don't mean to personalize this the way I am about to but your business has a beautiful parallel to this situation which I think is illustrative.

    Your business is running a catering hall (a very nice hall at that). How many regulations do you need to follow to keep compliant with state and local food service standards so you can keep your business running? How many of them seem foolish but you have to do it anyway because it is the law? How much more do you think it costs you to be compliant with those standards: food preparation, life safety systems in a commercial facility like fire suppression, purchasing goods from USDA certified producers vs. mystery meat from Mexico... and I am sure that the list goes on and on in ways I cannot even imagine.

    Now what happens if a hall opens up down the street from you that looks nice to the guests but is grossly violative of the food and life safety standards you have to uphold (and just for the hell of it let's throw in a staff of illegal immigrants who work for food) and in so doing can charge half of what you do? Guests flock to the lower prices and wonder what you do with all of that "extra" money you are charging. What if that place was then ordered closed by the health department but they continued to remain open for business and guests chose to go there anyway and were STILL wondering why you were more expensive? Would that not seem utterly insane to you?

    What should a 2.5w RGB laser REALLY cost here? Get three quotes from three compliant, domestic manufacturers with similar specifications, take the average and you have your answer. The deflationary price pressures of competition apply to laser manufacturers too as long as they are all playing by the same set of rules.

    I/we have to play by the rules in our businesses just as you have to do in yours and using foreign manufacturers with noncompliant products as a price benchmark is about as reasonable as buying a sack full of wet mice and expecting it to fuel your car.

  8. #18
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    i like the old mindset better.
    Now proudly stocking and offering the best deals on laser-wave

    www.lasershowparts.com
    http://stores.ebay.com.au/Lasershow-Parts

  9. #19
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    Too bad those days are loooooong gone, eh? ROFL!! Love it... LOL!!




  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-Laser View Post
    using foreign manufacturers with noncompliant products as a price benchmark is about as reasonable as buying a sack full of wet mice and expecting it to fuel your car.
    quotes like this make me wish this board had rep hah.

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