Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456
Results 51 to 57 of 57

Thread: Here we go again..... Spacelas question

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Dunellen, NJ
    Posts
    2

    Unhappy Space-Las Projectors

    Hello, I'm a Pangloin user and just got back into creating laser shows again. Since I haven't seen any of my shows since 1998. I thought I could buy an inexpensive projector to get right up and running again. After looking on Ebay the Space-Las series of projectors with their very cheap price tag was very tempting. I pondered for many weeks weather to build one from scratch or just take the easy road and buy the Space-Las unit. Finally, I was sold on getting the Space-Las unit after noticing Ebay's %100 guarantee. So I took the plunge and purchased the 1.5 watt RGB system.
    Well, wouldn't you know, YOU DO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR PLUS MAJOR AGGRAVATION!!! DHL brought the tattered boxed unit to my door and on examination saw some good size gouges on the flight case. I took the unit out and just to keep the story short here, opened the top lid and saw the power supply to the Red and Green lasers was not bolted down causing battered marks on surrounding components and on the chassis inside the unit. After plugging it in and turning it on, the only thing that ran was the cooling fans. The LCD display was blank and everything else seemed dead. So here we go and trust me when I tell you I've gone back and forth many times in sending emails with these people and their logic astounds me. They insist that it's DHL s' fault and I'm to get compensation from DHL. The kind lady at DHL said that they were only obligated to pay $100US since Space-Las ship it with no insurance placing only a $200 value for the contents and we both concurred that Space-Las simply took the cheapest way out. It was shipped in a generic flight-case and then single boxed with no packing, which to me is absolutely ludicrous to be shipping something so fragile and sensitive such a long way. You might get away with this for simple scanners and small DPSS Lasers but not for something at this magnitude.
    Presently I'm in a Ebay dispute with them as their solution is the send the unit back at my cost of almost $700 and receive a %70 refund.
    I've been an Ebay member for a long time and they always done good by me. I'll be glad to post a follow up as soon as this issue is resolved. Dennis..

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Mi
    Posts
    2,433

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    Hello, I'm a Pangloin user and just got back into creating laser shows again. Since I haven't seen any of my shows since 1998. I thought I could buy an inexpensive projector to get right up and running again. After looking on Ebay the Space-Las series of projectors with their very cheap price tag was very tempting. I pondered for many weeks weather to build one from scratch or just take the easy road and buy the Space-Las unit. Finally, I was sold on getting the Space-Las unit after noticing Ebay's %100 guarantee. So I took the plunge and purchased the 1.5 watt RGB system.
    Well, wouldn't you know, YOU DO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR PLUS MAJOR AGGRAVATION!!! DHL brought the tattered boxed unit to my door and on examination saw some good size gouges on the flight case. I took the unit out and just to keep the story short here, opened the top lid and saw the power supply to the Red and Green lasers was not bolted down causing battered marks on surrounding components and on the chassis inside the unit. After plugging it in and turning it on, the only thing that ran was the cooling fans. The LCD display was blank and everything else seemed dead. So here we go and trust me when I tell you I've gone back and forth many times in sending emails with these people and their logic astounds me. They insist that it's DHL s' fault and I'm to get compensation from DHL. The kind lady at DHL said that they were only obligated to pay $100US since Space-Las ship it with no insurance placing only a $200 value for the contents and we both concurred that Space-Las simply took the cheapest way out. It was shipped in a generic flight-case and then single boxed with no packing, which to me is absolutely ludicrous to be shipping something so fragile and sensitive such a long way. You might get away with this for simple scanners and small DPSS Lasers but not for something at this magnitude.
    Presently I'm in a Ebay dispute with them as their solution is the send the unit back at my cost of almost $700 and receive a %70 refund.
    I've been an Ebay member for a long time and they always done good by me. I'll be glad to post a follow up as soon as this issue is resolved. Dennis..
    You should start your own thread for this in the seller review section, as here it will be lost amongst this junk above.
    leading in trailing technology

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    2,063

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ElektroFreak View Post
    Well, that counts me out then.. I've only got the one left after all this time running around stealing business from all the major companies, doing audience scanned shows with my 15 laserscope projectors.. makin' the big bucks baby!! I'm just a sucker for the audience perspective. What's that they say? "No pain no gain"?


    Still waiting on some sort of worthwhile data here..


    *cricket.... cricket*
    Seems like the burden of proof is on you. What reason would anyone have to justify a rule that already exists when there is no threat of it going away?

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,622

    Default

    Dude, read the thread. That's all I'll say. I've already provided as much proof as I have. No one has countered with anything but hearsay. If that's good enough for everyone else, OK.. but it ain't good enough for me. Just because some people say some stuff doesn't make it true or fact. I've posted papers from ILDA that basically say everything I just said, but I've been told that I should believe Steve and x-laser over ILDA, whose take on this is supported by my own research.. Who would you believe? Two guys, or the worlds foremost authority on laser shows? Not much of a question in my book.

    Laser safety affects us all. Being dishonest, or spreading false data takes away from the seriousness of the subject. As I've said before, to me there is little difference between blowing something out of proportion to promote your viewpoint, and outright lying. They are both forms of dishonesty. Even though I've already said this several times, I'm not trying to say that we should all go hog wild and do uncertified crowd-scanning shows with the biggest lasers imaginable. All I'm saying is that I don't buy into the hype that there are scores of illegal lasersists out there in the US doing crowd scanning shows with huge lasers, blinding everyone in their paths, bent on destroying laser shows for the rest of us for 2 reasons:

    reason 1: The people making these claims have a vested interest in them.

    reason 2: Even if true, I don't think there are scores of people being injured, because there would be some proof somewhere.

    Please, if anyone here is so much more knowledgeable about this stuff than I, please tell me what is so far-fetched about that?

    If no one here can do that, then this place is a joke full of people that consider themselves to be a bunch of experts, but in fact is a place where none exist.

    Please, rather than joke about it, put worthwhile input into it. Other people read this stuff from around the world.. just because some folks here think this is a joke doesn't mean everyone who reads this will.

    I know we're a little off-topic in this thread, but this is just like when some of us tried to make a set of guidelines for certification to help people understand safety and become compliant. That thread took about 6 seconds to fall on it's ass, even after I tried bumping it myself with fresh data. Was that a joke too? Why don't we fill it full of pointless crap too. That way we can all say we did the most we could to present factual, honest data so that people can get a real idea of what's involved here.

    You can hate on me all you want. You can accuse me of breaking the law. You can make jokes, but all that all does is prove that I'm right about this place.

    @Gary: What rule is it you are referring to exactly?
    Last edited by ElektroFreak; 10-11-2010 at 14:50.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    320

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ElektroFreak View Post
    I've posted papers from ILDA that basically say everything I just said, but I've been told that I should believe Steve and x-laser over ILDA, whose take on this is supported by my own research.. Who would you believe?
    Laser safety affects us all. Being dishonest, or spreading false data takes away from the seriousness of the subject. As I've said before, to me there is little difference between blowing something out of proportion to promote your viewpoint, and outright lying. They are both forms of dishonesty.

    ...All I'm saying is that I don't buy into the hype that there are scores of illegal lasersists out there in the US doing crowd scanning shows with huge lasers, blinding everyone in their paths, bent on destroying laser shows for the rest of us...
    EF,

    I have been silent for the last few rounds of this but I really deeply object to being called dishonest especially when my words are grossly embellished to invalidate my point.

    Let me restate it simply and clearly:

    I feel that the unchecked distribution of high powered laser products to people who do not know how to use them appropriately presents an unacceptably high risk to the industry. Similarly, I feel that poorly made projectors which lack basic safety features, appropriate user documentation, etc. also present an unacceptably high risk to the industry especially when they are being sold to people who do not know how to use them appropriately.

    That was my thesis and it had nothing to do with with a commercial interest. Point of fact, I do believe and in fact know that there are scores of illegal laserists out there doing crowd scanning shows with high powered projectors. Never did I say that they were blinding everyone in their paths nor did I claim that there were scores of injuries from such activities. In fact, that is the opposite of my second point which was that it had not happened yet but that one major and well publicized injury event would be very bad for everyone.

    Making hyperbole out of my words and then inexplicably taking offense to them is neither reasonable nor does it foster the debate you seem to genuinely want to have.

    I have no objection to anyone with the proper background and safety training doing a show, any show, in a compliant manner. Heck, I cannot even really object to shows above MPE because as you and everyone says they have a good track record with regard to safety. I never meant to put anyone down and I really don't think that I did.

    Your posts are very defensive and I just simply do not understand from where that vehement disagreement comes if you take my words at face value. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. You have been asking for evidence of large numbers of injuries... no one ever said that there were... I did however say that there was strong evidence that would increase the likelihood of such an event. Nothing that I have said, that i know of, contradicts ILDA. In fact Patrick and I had a good discussion about this a few weeks back and we were in general agreement.

    In all, if you disagree with my assessment that the large number of non-compliant products being sold to unvarianced people is a substantial risk to the larger industry then fine and we can have a discussion about it. But never have I proffered false data nor have I in any way been dishonest and I would appreciate it if you would not question my integrity or motivations again. Those are two things that are very important to me and I always try to act to maintain them in the best possible standing in both my personal and professional life.

    I am happy to continue this conversation with you without the recriminations if you like.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,622

    Default

    Thank you for your response, I know that my position is defensive.

    I can tell you are an intelligent person, and patient. I admire that and respect that beyond words. I also appreciate it, and your apparent honesty.

    There is, however, no need to continue this conversation. I have asked the US members of the forum to pony up and make some sort of central resource with the true facts of safety and certification as you know. If PL is really the keystone of the laser show community, they'll recognize the need for that kind of educational resource, and the need for it to be kept 100% factual and verifiable. Either that or the problem will continue. How else can a group like this combat the threat of a black market? Education, Education, Education.

  7. #57
    Bradfo69's Avatar
    Bradfo69 is offline Pending BST Forum Purchases: $47,127,283.53
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    Posts
    5,971

    Default

    Wow! I just happened to come back to this thread as I had forgotten about it. Talk about passion. Just as an update, the Spacelas projector came and went without a second thought from me and, I am in the process of having a properly made, fully compliant RGB projector, probably around three watts being completed to the tune of more thousands of dollars than I have ANY business spending on this silliness because, and, thank you Dan and others, I DO want to do things properly. Some of my newbie purchases in an effort to get into this need to be sold - or at least just used at home for creation work.

    My whole point with this post was 2.5 watts from Spacelas was $2,700 and from a US builder it turns out to be upwards of $8,000. That's a huge spread when in many cases, a number of the internal parts (Dragon Tiger for example), and even the raw case may be coming from a chinese manufacturer, so I simply questioned how much of that is the difference in labor rates AND some paperwork. Didn't entirely think about the fact that the R&D of the first projector had to be amortized over the rest of them to follow.

    Sorry to have caused such a firestorm - especially for you Dan!

    ~Brad
    Last edited by Bradfo69; 10-15-2010 at 10:33.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •