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Thread: Threat letter from casio's attorney - BUTZEL LONG

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by heroic View Post
    Next problem is that C@s10's real problem is that Nichia and their reseller network is super pissed that their stock just dropped in value by 95% and, as a consequence, they're looking to stick anyone who's selling projector parts, regardless if their name is on it. Now, since you've received the letter, you can assume they know who you are, and further assume they're watching you.
    They are not watching me, nor did I receive the letter. is this true? Nichia stocks dropped 95% or are you just speculating?

    Now, you *probably* would get away with it, if you fought it in court. But they have better lawyers than you do. Do you want to find out? Really? Including explaining to the CDRH why it's okay for you to sell diodes since they're not capable of actually lasing? Now, I'm sure you could. But how deep are your pockets?
    I would never have to explain anything to the CDRH. They have no authority in my part of the world.

    If I was selling a Bosch distributor from a GM vehicle, I do not see how GM could stop my from saying it was pulled from a particular GM vehicle. You see this all the time on eBay etc.
    This space for rent.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnar View Post
    Nichia stocks dropped 95% or are you just speculating?
    I meant the value of their (physical) stock of laserdiodes.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnar View Post
    If I was selling a Bosch distributor from a GM vehicle, I do not see how GM could stop my from saying it was pulled from a particular GM vehicle. You see this all the time on eBay etc.
    Thank you for putting together this example illustrating exactly what I was thinking in the context of parts from cars.

    I wouldn't play games with the lawyers, but they've got no leg to stand on.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by taggalucci View Post
    Thank you for putting together this example illustrating exactly what I was thinking in the context of parts from cars.
    I guess the only difference here is that the world is not over-run by pimple faced kids running around pointing automotive distributors at police helicopters, aircraft or blinding innocent bystanders with electronic ignition systems...
    This space for rent.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dream beamz View Post
    We will find out one thing with this auction
    Removing the Casio name. Looks like another seller got the same kind of action and decided to try a different approach

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=260683640658&
    this looks like the way to go

    those who know, are aware of what they are looking for. "what is blue and outputs 1full watt of 445?" so there is no need to mention the trademarked names

    if no mention of the names is made, it is up to them to prove that the part on sale is the one they are talking about. and this is no easy task

    just my 2p

  6. #16
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    Just my own little trade mark story , kind of relevent i think as it shows how deeply protected a trade mark can be in law

    I went o my local wholesaler bought some product , including a nodding dog that looked similiar to a famous brand here called a "churchill nodding dog" , its wasnt a completly fake as such ,looked a bit similiar and was called a CHILL DOG

    Was happily buying and selling online for a few months when all of a sudden i was inundated with a about 6 letters from their lawyers , within 10 mins of the first letter the product was off sale , but they wanted to take me to cleaners for damage to reputation , loss of sales and everything else they could think off , i has only maybe sold 20-30 of them ..it even made the local newspaper ! Yes they were using me to frighten off other people considering selling the product .......YET all i did was buy some to resale from local wholesaler ... i eventually say a ratehr expensive trademark lawyer ( first visit free ) who kind of put it in perspective from me

    The law states though for one product going through the chain they can claim damages from many many people

    The retailer
    The local wholesaler
    the distrubuter
    the importer
    The manufacturer

    this surprised me , the eventually went away when i provided proof of purchase from local wholsaler and detailed small qtys sold , they also wanted me to write to each purchaser to detail although it looked similair to their product it wasnt , that they could get a full refund and where they could buy original trademarked product which i did along with sending them them few units i had left !

    They then chased me again a few years later because i had a link to ebay where people where selling their original product !

    Its not easy getting these letters becuae you just never know if your the one they are going to take all the way to get PUBLICITY to stop other people do anything similar

    i felt totally innocent though , all i did was go to local wholesaler and buy stock like thousands of other people did and put up an ebay link , ut iof your on the net with decent search results your such an easy hit for the lawyers to find and look busy to get fees !

    paul
    In the beginning there was none. Then came the light - #1 UKLEM - 2007
    BUY UK LEGAL LASER POINTER :: NEW - Blue 460nm Laser Pointers

  7. #17
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    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
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    One thing folks, when you retail a laser, you are supposed to post the class sticker in your adverts.

    Two EBAY is a US company or has US Branches, and they learned early on that auctions violating copyright and trademarks cost them dearly. If you look at your user agreement, if your dealing with EBAY USA, your in a US court.

    At some point, selling N diodes requires you to become a manufacturer. N has never really been defined, and that question was asked directly by a certain laser trade association and no answer was given. If your reselling a quantity of a OEM laser part, auction after auction, you are a manufacturer at some point.

    US law may not apply in OZ, but the international trade treaty OZ signed regarding trademarked goods is De Facto OZ law. It works both ways, OZ products are protected under US law.

    I just got a quote and requested samples from a major US diode maker, and this has had a backlash. The NDA is required and I cannot tell you anything about the diode in the product if you asked, other then the laser safety data on the unit if your handling it. Even if I dropped the product development, I would have to send the diodes back or destroy them.

    Who got hurt on the blues, well a sample diode was about 2400$ from Japan, and you could only get them in the US from two or three VARS, value added resellers. The VARS made their money by attaching a power supply and housing to the diode, and by advertising the product, The VARs cannot be very happy about the lab and industrial sales they lost to 70$ diodes on EBAY.

    I was not thrilled, I came within microseconds of plonking down the 2400 hundred for the company I was working for. Then microseconds of plonking down 700$ for a Ebay diode when they first came out. Two weeks later they were 70, and then they got to 35$ in the group buys, A 34:1 markdown on a product's value is not fun.

    Consider that a certain big laser company probably paid beaucoup dollars to be the exclusive blue entertainment diode reseller, and they cannot be happy about the sudden flood of commercial 1 watt blue projectors.

    Was it unfair to keep the pricing structure that high, possibly, but those who wanted them cheap did not pay for the gigabucks of RandD that went into the development.

    If your going to tell me this is price fixing, tell me if your married and the former miss whatever accepted Cubic Zircon for her rock on the ring. Then tell me when your 40 that your happily living on the legal minimum wage. ECON 101 in both communist and capitalist economics says you sell at what the market will bear.

    Cheap, subsidized goods, have murderous effects on the companies bottom line, unless your BigBoXMART.


    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 10-28-2010 at 06:21.

  8. #18
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    But (just wondering), once i buyed the projector, it is mine, right ? And, if it is mine, i can do anything i want with it, right ? And also, if i decide to mangle it, and to harvest the diodes, and to sell them as bare diodes, without mention their name in the sale, they can do nothing legally, cause i already paid them the projector, and with my own property, i can do all that what i want (when i do not break laws), and laws does not prohibt me to sell bare laser diodes (not pointers), right ? I think they have a strange concept about rights :P

  9. #19
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    There is a very simple answer to this guys:

    You buy a gun: you absolutely cannot do anything you like with it including just re-selling it however you want.

    You buy a licensed copy of Windows: you can't break into the code and use it for your own needs.

    There are tons of examples in the world of things you buy that have restricted uses after you have purchased them AND that does not even take into account uses that while legal would be injurious to other parties. Just as free speech does not extend to infinity neither does using a patent pending assembly after breaking open a C4510.

    They have a legitimate claim here from both a liability and intellectual property standpoint and would continue to even if you did not identify their brand name.

  10. #20
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    You buy a licensed copy of Windows: you can't break into the code and use it for your own needs.
    Sorry, software is a poor analogy here as it is governed by a license of use.

    Physical products generally are not.

    However, as was shown by the courts when they decreed that modding playstations was unlawful (you own it but may not do as you please with it) its not cut and dried. Didn't stop them making non-hardware workarounds though...

    All this will do is drive it underground and out of public view. I cannot see how they will ever stop diode harvesting unless they make it physically impossible to remove them without damage, and even then people may still use the modules whole like Andy did in his moving heads.

    Some things simply cannot be fought efectively and I believe this is one of them.

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