Recomended DAC?

[eric343]

I think that if Pangolin were to produce "beginner" software aimed at the hobbyist, with an interface similar to the existing software, you'd do a good job of both reaching a new market and getting people used to the "Pangolin Way" (so they buy the real stuff when they can afford it). I think we're seeing the beginnings of a major expansion in the hobby-laser field due to the advent of cheap lasers and cheap galvos, both from China. It's now possible to spend $300 on galvos, $265 on a laser, and $100 on a parallel port DAC to have a 15K-capable 100mW 532nm green system running Popelscan -- where before the galvos were $1000, the laser similarly pricey, and Pangolin the only serious game in town. The proliferation in green and souped-up green pointers is bringing tons of interest in the high-power laser field which used to be a rather limited domain. I suspect that Pangolin would easily take over the field if they brought the Flashback in with some show-authoring software (such as you seem to already have for live shows) for under $500. The 128mb of storage and extra intensity channel would be entirely unnecessary -- perhaps even the blue channel could be dropped.

[Pangolin]

Hi Eric,

Good point. You might be right about what is going on in the hobbyist sector. I am not so sure about "major expansion", but expansion nonetheless. And you might be right about the major factors being that the laser and galvo expense coming down.

Regarding the "beginner software" and a sort of pathway with a similar interface, that's kinda what we intended with the utility software that comes with the Flashback with USB. It looks, works, and acts a whole lot like LivePRO. As such, when it comes time to upgrade, either to LivePRO or other Pangolin products, there is hopefully an inherent comfort due to the familiar look and feel.

I guess we will just have to see what develops in this hobbyist sector. Up until now, we have concentrated heavily on the professionals, and this market remains going strong.

Thanks for all of the great thoughts!

Best regards,

William Benner
Pangolin Laser Systems

[buffo]

I think it`s nice that they give away that amiga software for free...
But damn........ if you get a man to start using a amiga in the year of 2006 you made a crime !!! :twisted:

Careful there liteglow... I'm an old Amiga fan from way, *way* back... Don't make me come over there!!!!

Seriously though, the Amiga version of the Pangolin software doesn't support blanking of ANY kind unless you have one of the zorro-II Pangolin controllers, which haven't been manufactured in a LONG time... (over a decade)

So while the free software is nice to play with, you really can't just pick up an A500 and start doing laser shows with it. (And even if you get an A2000, you still need to find a QM-32 Zorro-II board to make it work...)

I agree that a lower-cost version would probably be attractive to hobbyists though...

[buffo]

The proliferation in green and souped-up green pointers is bringing tons of interest in the high-power laser field which used to be a rather limited domain.

Ugh. The souped-up green pointers (and the pointer-jockey crowd they seem to attract) are probably doing us more harm in terms of an unsafe image and increased regulatory oversight than they are by increasing overall interest in lasers. But I agree with the rest of your post...

Basically the Chinese are copying all the sucessful designs and selling them for a fraction of their normal cost here. Sometimes quality is an issue, but not always. (These Dragon Tiger DT-40 galvos are darn near bullet-proof!)

And I agree that the hobbyist market is on the verge of a tipping point. Spec has posted about this before. Do a search on E-bay for "rgb laser" and see what you find. Some of the systems are *incredibly* affordable. When they start including 40kpps galvos for the same price as the 10-12 kpps units listed today, LOOK OUT! (I know Astroguy was considering buying one anyway, and swapping out his DT-40's and amps for whatever the projector came with... Don't know if he's actually done it yet though.)

I suspect that Pangolin would easily take over the field if they brought the Flashback in with some show-authoring software (such as you seem to already have for live shows) for under $500. The 128mb of storage and extra intensity channel would be entirely unnecessary -- perhaps even the blue channel could be dropped.

That seems to be the route that some of their competitors are taking... And I'd probably give Pangolin a whirl if it were more affordable. (At the very least you'd have a huge body of experts to ask questions of...) I have to admit that Bill's posts about the Flashback unit have piqued my curiosity though...

[eric343]

The proliferation in green and souped-up green pointers is bringing tons of interest in the high-power laser field which used to be a rather limited domain.

Ugh. The souped-up green pointers (and the pointer-jockey crowd they seem to attract) are probably doing us more harm in terms of an unsafe image and increased regulatory oversight than they are by increasing overall interest in lasers. But I agree with the rest of your post...

Oh, the likelyhood that they'll bring negative attention on laserists is quite high. But there's also a definite side effect -- once you have that 40mW nuclear pointer or that 150mW flashlight of doom, you gotta DO something with it. Laser shows are a darn good way to justify having spent $800 on something that you just realised is way too bright to excercise even a cat with laser goggles on. Or even better -- or worse -- once you have that 40mW luke-I-am-your-father-keep-that-out-of-your-eyes lightsaber in a pen, the urge to upgrade will likely bring you either here or to alt.lasers. (Or the desire to get above certain drooling masses at the CandlePower Forums.)

I have to admit that Bill's posts about the Flashback unit have piqued my curiosity though...

Yeah, no kidding. I wish I had $700 to drop on them, but my budget at this point allows one thing: a power supply for my bILDA board!
Even if I hadn't already dropped $200 on two AOMs, $500 on a laser, $50 on the bILDA board and parts, $800 on the DT-40s, and everything else, I still would be more than a little wary. Why?
a) $700 seems LOT for a DAC and software, even particularly nice hardware and software. Yes, I'm a cheapskate and if I had more money then it would likely be worth it... oh to be employed and with stock options
b) The frame storage is nice, especially if I was going to make a projector for a particular application. Very useful to be able to, say, control shows from a Palm Pilot. But as a hobbyist, my primary goals are to SEE COOL BEAMS AND GRAPHICS as soon as possible and as cheaply as possible, and the various OEM features seem to be getting in the way of the latter goal

[Pangolin]

Hi guys,

Just a few quick comments. First, on the pointer thing, I believe it is a serious issue. Every time some idiot shines a laser pointer into the cockpit of an airplane, it puts us all at risk. Events like this are unfortunately highly publicised on TV and in the news. Everyone gets nervous, the pilots unions start complaining to FAA, which starts complaining to SAE-G10, which tries to stop the whining, but then if they are not successful, it goes to CDRH which may shut down all outdoor laser lightshows (like they did for a year in Las Vegas around 1995).

As a result of the rash of pointer incidents in late 2005 and early 2005, Pangolin funded some studies (one of which is still under way) and we funded the publication of a few information pages. The results can be seen here:
http://www.pangolin.com/resguide09c.htm

and here:
http://www.pangolin.com/resguide09d.htm

The thing we all have to watch out for is what I would call "guilt by association" that happens when there is any kind of bad PR for lasers.

Second, regarding the comments Eric made about $700, I think it is $600 (or actually $599) not $700, right? Did I make another misprint somewhere?

Best regards,

William Benner
Pangolin Laser Systems

[eric343]

The mistake is almost certainly mine, as I've been running on way too little sleep lately.

[buffo]

As a result of the rash of pointer incidents in late 2005 and early 2005, Pangolin funded some studies (one of which is still under way) and we funded the publication of a few information pages. The results can be seen here:
http://www.pangolin.com/resguide09c.htm
and here:
http://www.pangolin.com/resguide09d.htm

Bill,

I have to admit that it's been a while since I really explored the Pangolin site. Clearly, you've added more stuff since the last time I was there. I keenly enjoyed reading the new material, and in particular I'd like to give you kudos for putting up the FAQ about lasers and airliners. That's not something that's going to generate any revenue for your business, but it's a great resource nonetheless.

So, thanks!

Adam

[eric343]

Ditto. I was really impressed when I read that.

(Actually, I'm really impressed by what you guys have managed to do in general.)

Commence Pangolin love-in!

[Pangolin]

Thanks for the kudos guys!

We actually do a lot that does not directly put money into our pockets. But we believe in Ronald Reagan's idea of "trickle down theory". If we help out a PCAOM company, or scanner company, or laser company, and help them to make products that are better and less expensive, it helps everyone which in turn hopefully increases sales for us at some level (as well as increasing sales for our competitors). Likewise, if we help to get good information into the industry (and into the media) it will hopefully cut down on any kind of negative reports coming out when people abuse pointers.

Just trying to keep the trickle down flowing

Best regards,

William Benner
Pangolin Laser Systems