Want to buy cheap 20~30k ILDA laser projector

[Admin]

kiyoukan pretty much nailed it. There are multiple paths to get to the same goal and not all of them are equal or can be effectively plotted on a cost-benefit curve.

Also: There is an adage you need to be aware of: "Good, Fast, Cheap; Pick any two."

This is especially true here. You can't have all three. Sacrifice one to get the others or sacrifice two and really make something memorable.

Another thing I have noticed here in this thread... Every time someone proposes something that isn't what you have already decided you want you dismiss their input and go right back to where you started... That is rude.

These people that are trying to help have spent a very long time trying to shortcut the process and finding ways to lower the barrier of entry... If there was a "magic solution" It would have already been posted, argued, beat down, evaluated, resubmitted, and reevaluated against any new information available. It's the nature of progress through the scientific method.

If you want the *most cost effective* way to find out if "it's your thing" or not, heres what you need:

A 445 diode assembly and dr lava driver board *or* a cheap 532nm unit, a galvo pair, a DAC, software, some shim stock, wire and an evenings worth of your time. That will get you to the point where you can display beams in a controlled manner and then decided if it's "right for you" - While the initial investment will be higher than a spazz and flail box(mostly due to the software/dac), you will have in your possession a very basic wholly functional projector.

Worst case scenario: You decide it's "not your thing" and then sell off the components and not be out very much money. However if you buy a spazz and flail box you will rapidly find out that there is no real resale market and be out quite a lot more money.

Want fast and cheap? Spazz and flail.

Want good and fast? Offer an established company like CTLasers $50k or call Kvant and tell them you have a blank check.

Want good and cheap? Incrementally purchase the best components you can afford and then build up your rig over a long time.

Are any of these ideas *exactly* what you want? No. But at least the way I proposed will recover a majority of the financial outlay in the event you decide to jump ship.

[borgqueenx]

kiyoukan pretty much nailed it. There are multiple paths to get to the same goal and not all of them are equal or can be effectively plotted on a cost-benefit curve.

Also: There is an adage you need to be aware of: "Good, Fast, Cheap; Pick any two."

This is especially true here. You can't have all three. Sacrifice one to get the others or sacrifice two and really make something memorable.

Another thing I have noticed here in this thread... Every time someone proposes something that isn't what you have already decided you want you dismiss their input and go right back to where you started... That is rude.

These people that are trying to help have spent a very long time trying to shortcut the process and finding ways to lower the barrier of entry... If there was a "magic solution" It would have already been posted, argued, beat down, evaluated, resubmitted, and reevaluated against any new information available. It's the nature of progress through the scientific method.

If you want the *most cost effective* way to find out if "it's your thing" or not, heres what you need:

A 445 diode assembly and dr lava driver board *or* a cheap 532nm unit, a galvo pair, a DAC, software, some shim stock, wire and an evenings worth of your time. That will get you to the point where you can display beams in a controlled manner and then decided if it's "right for you" - While the initial investment will be higher than a spazz and flail box(mostly due to the software/dac), you will have in your possession a very basic wholly functional projector.

Worst case scenario: You decide it's "not your thing" and then sell off the components and not be out very much money. However if you buy a spazz and flail box you will rapidly find out that there is no real resale market and be out quite a lot more money.

Want fast and cheap? Spazz and flail.

Want good and fast? Offer an established company like CTLasers $50k or call Kvant and tell them you have a blank check.

Want good and cheap? Incrementally purchase the best components you can afford and then build up your rig over a long time.

Are any of these ideas *exactly* what you want? No. But at least the way I proposed will recover a majority of the financial outlay in the event you decide to jump ship.

hey there admin...I dont thing i was being rude since i specificly asked for a cheap 20~30k ilda laser projector, and stated my budget.

Thanks for trying to recommending me something better, but i just dont have the money for something better. And want to try before i make this my hobby. i can expand my budget only when i know this is the thing for me.

maby il try upgrading a cheap chinese projector if i like it(if thats possible to every projector?). but i am a very noob in all electronic work so i am afraid i might fuck something up. for example upgrade galvo's to real 30k's...But if i see the photos of ebay of those galvo's, without a casing...im afraid i WILL kill something in the projector.

and again, i dont seek to do anything on a professional level... just a cheap small show created by me and my notebook. If i can let it show a text of my own with a effect, im already happy. i have a fog machine for my laserpointer collection so thats alrady 1 thing i own for the hobby.

sorry if i sounded like a arse but i really want to give this hobby a try. But again let me tell where i got to the point of trying a projector:

LPF thread openened with cheap laser projector - 22 dollars shipped on ebay.
I thought "HEY! these arnt so expensive as i thought them to be!"
so i went to dealexreme, youtube, other sites and found out i wanted to buy a 50 dollar projector from DX. but i doubted and asked LPF for advise. they said it couldnt do shows you created. Only builded in patterns. "you should buy somethign with at least DMX" they said. so i searched again. youtube dealextreme other chinese sellers...ebay...And found more. so i asked again what to do, and they said if i wanted to do some descent shows i should have at least a galvo, with 20k.
And now i reached my limit. First 22 dollar, then 50 dollar, then 100 dollar, and now 450 dollar. Sorry but thanks for your recommendations of buying something more expensive.

And you can ask me to concentrate on one color, or speed, or something else, but that leaves the awesomeness of another, so i still wont know if its something good. Thats why i search something with all stuff...but then with all stuff being run on a low level.

hope you understand.

[White-Light]

Just understand there's no such thing as a cheap good projector or not that I've seen anyway. NRG seem to be about the cheapest projectors I've seen with decent build and credentials. Although I've never seen anything from Audiovisual above in fairness to him.

However generally, most cheap projectors are usually cheap for a reason, usually because they use cheap components or take quality shortcuts to keep costs low eg overdriving lasers.

18 months ago $1,500 would have been a bargain for a 2ND HAND RGB of between 500mw-1W.

The picture has somewhat shifted with the new cheap blues that are out there but red or green laser modules still cost lots of bucks as do decent scanners. With scanners, in many instances what is claimed isn't always delivered.

On the subject of control, at the cheapest end you're looking at Spaghetti which is Gary - John Yahas (from on here) 's baby. To that you'll need to add a soundcard DAC which will require soldering and modification on your behalf. I don't know but think Spaghetti is around $50 then you have the soundcard and any additional component costs.

Climbing away from Spaghetti to something more sophisticated, there's ishow off ebay which will set you back around $200 and I think it fair to say it isn't very well respected here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/iSHOW-LASER-LI...item19bbb7ef1e

There the RIYA DAC and LDS (Laser Design Studio) which I think comes in around $400 for both.

The for the arguably the best control, there's Pangolin QS / FB3 (a high end consumer / semi pro level product) that I believe has a US retail of $599.

If you're not already getting the picture, then to put it bluntly, to get PC control of your laser, you're probably looking at a minimum $200 if you don't want to do any DIY.

To get really good control, budget for Laser Design Studio or the choice of most on here, Pangolin which is the dogs.

As others have tried to explain, lasers are not a cheap hobby.

Take a look at component costs on Marc's site and you'll soon realise what you're up against with that budget:

http://www.ctlasers.com/purchases/

150mw 532nm green laser stand alone (no case, no scanners, etc) is the amount of your entire budget.

[borgqueenx]

Just understand there's no such thing as a cheap good projector or not that I've seen anyway. NRG seem to be about the cheapest projectors I've seen with decent build and credentials. Although I've never seen anything from Audiovisual above in fairness to him.

However generally, most cheap projectors are usually cheap for a reason, usually because they use cheap components or take quality shortcuts to keep costs low eg overdriving lasers.

18 months ago $1,500 would have been a bargain for a 2ND HAND RGB of between 500mw-1W.

The picture has somewhat shifted with the new cheap blues that are out there but red or green laser modules still cost lots of bucks as do decent scanners. With scanners, in many instances what is claimed isn't always delivered.

On the subject of control, at the cheapest end you're looking at Spaghetti which is Gary - John Yahas (from on here) 's baby. To that you'll need to add a soundcard DAC which will require soldering and modification on your behalf. I don't know but think Spaghetti is around $50 then you have the soundcard and any additional component costs.

Climbing away from Spaghetti to something more sophisticated, there's ishow off ebay which will set you back around $200 and I think it fair to say it isn't very well respected here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/iSHOW-LASER-LI...item19bbb7ef1e

There the RIYA DAC and LDS (Laser Design Studio) which I think comes in around $400 for both.

The for the arguably the best control, there's Pangolin QS / FB3 (a high end consumer / semi pro level product) that I believe has a US retail of $599.

If you're not already getting the picture, then to put it bluntly, to get PC control of your laser, you're probably looking at a minimum $200 if you don't want to do any DIY.

To get really good control, budget for Laser Design Studio or the choice of most on here, Pangolin.

As others have tried to explain, lasers are not a cheap hobby.

Take a look at component costs on Marc's site and you'll soon realise what you're up against with that budget:

http://www.ctlasers.com/purchases/

150mw 532nm green laser stand alone (no case, no scanners, etc) is the amount of your entire budget.

so the software box i buy must contain a soundcard(called DAC) or i will miss what?
or is the box a DAC?
If i like the projector's capabilities, i probaly would not be afraid of giving another ~300 dollars or so on software+the box with DAC.

however i dont want to talk about software yet, first the projector.
But i do wanna know if the software box contains a sound card, or if i need to get a projector with a sound card. me soldering? if things needs to be teared apart, sure!

[kiyoukan]

The sound card dac is a very easy mod.
There are about 8 or 9 wires that you have to solder on.
Good tutorials exist, and then you need correction amp.
You can get a sound card and correction amp for under 70$ kit or 100$ assembled.
(for the correction amp you might want get a new dc to dc converter to give you better results.)
But if you want to do a scanner for that price you are going to have to diy.
It would be best if you get your location and meet someone who builds them in person.
That way they can show you everything before you pay any money.
And if they are nice they will let you make a laser show.

[White-Light]

What you need is a Digital Analogue Convertor (DAC).

This can be as simple as a modified soundcard or it can be a dedicated professional component.

Most commercial laser show software programmes have a dedicated DAC although some can use different manufacturers DAC's.

For LDS many people use RIYA.

Pangolin QS comes with its own propietory DAC the FB3-QS and cannot be used with any other DAC.

[borgqueenx]

Dont think much people from the netherlands - overijssel are registered here
If i could id give it a try.
But please answer my other question. For example ishow comes with a box, is there a dac in that thing? Anyways the projectors im buying already have a mic so they must have some sort of sound card to to let the mic detect sound?

[Stuka]

Dont think much people from the netherlands - overijssel are registered here
If i could id give it a try.
But please answer my other question. For example ishow comes with a box, is there a dac in that thing? Anyways the projectors im buying already have a mic so they must have some sort of sound card to to let the mic detect sound?

Actually, we have a lot of PL members from the Netherlands:

http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...php?groupid=10

You might want to try to get in touch with some of them before you buy anything -
I'm sure someone in that group would be glad to give you a hands-on demo with various types of hardware.

Most commercial laser projector controllers (DAC's) are going to be sold as complete units, to include the hardware and at least the basic software you need to run it.
If you look up ishow on the manufacturer's web site, it should give you some idea of what is included.

In all honesty -
the few people who have posted about that particular package here are usually trying to solve problems they are having with it or looking for another controller package.

Concerning the hardware you're looking at -
Generally, if a mic is included, that is used to trigger some of the built-in patterns included in the onboard controller.

[mophead]

And....Just in case you don't know:

Even though ILDA 25pin connector "looks like" a regular PC type cable, there is no place to plug it on the back of your computer. That is what the DAC is for.

If you want your own text/graphics coming out of your box, DMX alone will not cut it. (unless you burn it on the onboard controllers Eprom). There has to be a DAC in the line somewhere.

You can't just buy a 450 dollar projector and *your* creation come out of it.

[norty303]

It sounds to me like you need to go away and read up some fundamentals that go to make up a working laser show system... from projector, to DAC to show/content creation software, and understand the place they have in the chain, and what the various options are for each piece.

Simple distinctions between ILDA and DMX control would also be useful.

At that point you may start to understand the budget issues a little better