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Thread: Mega RGB via KTP / Dye / 445... Discuss...

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by goninanbl00d View Post
    Only problem here is, once they get pumped up into said triplet state, they are no longer capable of lasing, and instead begin absorbing the lasing wavelength.

    Hence the need to get them out of the beam path as fast as possible.
    The thing is, the emission from Ru(bpy)3 comes from the triplet state and that triplet state probably does not absorb 450 nm nearly as well as the ground state molecule (bleaching).

    I don't see any reason why it should not be able to lase.

    I suspect that you should use a different solvent than water though, to prevent rapid degradation of the dye.

    With metal-free organic dyes the triplet state is probably bad most of the time, since it is too low in energy to emit visible light.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tocket View Post
    The thing is, the emission from Ru(bpy)3 comes from the triplet state and that triplet state probably does not absorb 450 nm nearly as well as the ground state molecule (bleaching).

    I don't see any reason why it should not be able to lase.

    I suspect that you should use a different solvent than water though, to prevent rapid degradation of the dye.

    With metal-free organic dyes the triplet state is probably bad most of the time, since it is too low in energy to emit visible light.
    The problem is, in the triplet state, the emission mode is different.

    When pumped into the singlet state, it emits via fluorescence. The dye is more or less transparant to the lasing wavelength, and can lase.

    When pumped into the triplet state, it emits via phosphorescence. The dye is now opaque to the lasing wavelength, and light emission cannot be controlled (or stimulated).

    The dye molecules can both be overpumped from the singlet state, or be pumped from a lower-energy singlet state (before it returns to the ground state). Either way, it is imperative to keep the dye moving, and moving FAST.

  3. #23
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    Hey there G...

    Quote Originally Posted by goninanbl00d View Post
    So you have your hands on one of these? Awesome
    Yeah, but I guess I should have said '..have two, working...' I'll take a pic of the one, here, kicking-out ~10W of Red, just for you, next time I'm in the shop, and have time to fire it up for a bit...

    Quote Originally Posted by goninanbl00d View Post
    Problem is, so far, Allen's the only one who's got photos of one of these beasts running. Even though there's sure to be more out there, he's the only one who has one working, and has photos of it. That's assuming the photos are his, and not stolen.
    Hah! Well, his 'last three' shots, there, he 'stole' from me / my-posts, the hack!... I didn't post his pix, he's posting ours of one of our working ones...(the two I posted above were taken in our NY shop, in ~2008...) The other shot, of the 'on-deck set-up', is Steve Janders' mod... *not* Allen's werk.. Oi... ...though, I guess he's just 'posting' not claiming it's 'his work'... unless he did (?) ...if-so, I'd really have to LOL...

    ...as-for his 'earlier' shots, and the 'long-distance beam' shot in his garage (?) I dunno, I suppose they're his... But, lol - "...Outputting 12 Watts of Red", yeah, *right* - showing only 24W of Pump?!! ...and thru a fiber?!... that kid is just so full of guano!!! Oh, well ...who cares...

    Oh, in case you might have missed this little gem from 'Prodj Satire'...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DJ_LazerTitz..jpg 
Views:	59 
Size:	906.1 KB 
ID:	21756

    Quote Originally Posted by goninanbl00d View Post
    And yeah, I'm still at school. Although $1500 isn't much (considering a new Coherent 899 system costs upwards of 100G), it's not money that I can dig up at a moment's notice, unfortunately.
    I hear ya... I'm actually looking to sell one of ours, for 'cash-flow' reasons, as-well... it's slated to go (pending) to a Client of ours in Ecuador, that has a KTP, and has been wanting one of these, for awhile... We'll see...

    I actually am planning to-be making a trip 'down under' early next year... if I do (and depending where ya live - I'll be near Sydney....) I could 'probably' bring ya one... ...that-is, if ya have the slightly-important 'other-half' (a KTP...)

    Anyhoo, backup is done, so I'm gonna let you Gents continue your fine-conversation, without any-more indigestion-inducing 'DJ-stickyfingers' chat...

    cheers...
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsli_jon View Post
    Hey there G...



    Yeah, but I guess I should have said '..have two, working...' I'll take a pic of the one, here, kicking-out ~10W of Red, just for you, next time I'm in the shop, and have time to fire it up for a bit...



    Hah! Well, his 'last three' shots, there, he 'stole' from me / my-posts, the hack!... I didn't post his pix, he's posting ours of one of our working ones...(the two I posted above were taken in our NY shop, in ~2008...) The other shot, of the 'on-deck set-up', is Steve Janders' mod... *not* Allen's werk.. Oi... ...though, I guess he's just 'posting' not claiming it's 'his work'... unless he did (?) ...if-so, I'd really have to LOL...

    ...as-for his 'earlier' shots, and the 'long-distance beam' shot in his garage (?) I dunno, I suppose they're his... But, lol - "...Outputting 12 Watts of Red", yeah, *right* - showing only 24W of Pump?!! ...and thru a fiber?!... that kid is just so full of guano!!! Oh, well ...who cares...

    Oh, in case you might have missed this little gem from 'Prodj Satire'...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DJ_LazerTitz..jpg 
Views:	59 
Size:	906.1 KB 
ID:	21756



    I hear ya... I'm actually looking to sell one of ours, for 'cash-flow' reasons, as-well... it's slated to go (pending) to a Client of ours in Ecuador, that has a KTP, and has been wanting one of these, for awhile... We'll see...

    I actually am planning to-be making a trip 'down under' early next year... if I do (and depending where ya live - I'll be near Sydney....) I could 'probably' bring ya one... ...that-is, if ya have the slightly-important 'other-half' (a KTP...)

    Anyhoo, backup is done, so I'm gonna let you Gents continue your fine-conversation, without any-more indigestion-inducing 'DJ-stickyfingers' chat...

    cheers...
    j
    Oh wow, what a nob. This is the same kid who thinks he can build a flashlamp pumped 473nm laserscope. I was wondering why there was little to no consistency in any of his pictures. Asked him, said it was his dye cell.

    12W of red with a 24W pump just isn't physically possible. With a 699 or 899 (heck, even with a 599, but you'd be pushing it), yes, but with this cell, no. 50% or thereabouts efficiency isn't unheard of, it's certainly possible, but only under the right conditions.

    Anyway, thanks for the pics in advance. I look forward to seeing them.

    I'm in Sydney, along with quite a few other ol' boys from the 'other forum' who might be interested in seeing the beast in action that's alright with ya.

    If my plans to get an RGB scanner fail miserably, I'm gonna buy one of those Q-Switched tattoo removal machines. Sure, it's not the best option, but it'd be enough to get something out of it. So, maybe, there will be another half.

    I'm out too. 11pm, and I've got school tomorrow. Excuse me while I pass out on my keyboard.

  5. #25
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    So, is there anyone who ever pulled off pumping a dye laser with a diode, instead of a solid-state (KTP) or ion head?

    I guess it would be more or less for the 'because we can'-factor, since all of the primary colours are pretty affordable, but it could also be interesting for exotic colours like yellow.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by goninanbl00d View Post
    The problem is, in the triplet state, the emission mode is different.

    When pumped into the singlet state, it emits via fluorescence. The dye is more or less transparant to the lasing wavelength, and can lase.

    When pumped into the triplet state, it emits via phosphorescence. The dye is now opaque to the lasing wavelength, and light emission cannot be controlled (or stimulated).

    The dye molecules can both be overpumped from the singlet state, or be pumped from a lower-energy singlet state (before it returns to the ground state). Either way, it is imperative to keep the dye moving, and moving FAST.
    So you're saying the absorption spectrum of the triplet state completely overlaps its emission spectrum? I don't think that's true. There may of course be partial overlaps sometimes, but you can get that with singlet and ground state as well.

  7. #27
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    All due respect K4Q but he would not be pumping a dye with 1064 to get blue, Stokes law prevents the classical dye from emitting a wavelength shorter then the pump. He might have been running a non linear crystal chain off of a Qswitched 1064, but not a dye. A 1064 nm pumped dye would be emitting 1100 nm or longer, and if your going to try that route, there are much easier methods using solid materials.


    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 11-29-2010 at 13:15.

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    There is a good reason why I gave Jon bottles of Kiton Red and DCM.

    PDT lasers seem to use a mix of two dyes. At least the ones I have scrapped. More then one of the pdt patents refer to a mix of two dyes. Please note, I only scrapped dye lasers when large frame ion was so expensive as to be unobtainium, this was a decade or more ago.

    It has been my experience that PDT mixes were referred to as only available as a factory mix. They did not tell you what the mix was, the dye manual usually says order bottle of powder mix X from the factory and use it with Y solvent. One unit I scrapped came with a manual that mentioned a dual dye mix, and what was in the unit was not looking like any member of the rhodeamine family.

    I do have SP 375 dye laser in the barn with a dye pump. It is loaded with Rhodamine plus a triplet quencher mix.

    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 11-29-2010 at 13:22.

  9. #29
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    For Stoney

    --------------------------------------Quote_____________________________________-
    We describe experimental results of cw laser operation using a red (670 nm) laser diode pumping two near-infrared dyes (Rd-800 and Rd-700). Red diode lasers operating with 300 mW cw power were characterized, paying particular attention to beam quality. Collimating optics and a highly astigmatic focusing system were designed and demonstrated, producing an approximately 50 μm diameter focal spot, resulting in over 15 kW/cm2 pump intensity (per diode). The resulting diode/ optical system was used to pump a commercial Coherent Model 599 cw dye laser utilizing a flowing dye jet.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    End quote.

    NOTE the 50 uM required spot size in a 7000$ dye laser module, designed for ion pumping. If you can get me a 50 uM spot out of a salvaged video projector blue diode laser, let me know, and I will use it to circularize the beam to a degree hither to unseen. I'd need 3.6 watts of it just to THRESHOLD the dye in my 599 to a few mW, let alone recover any power.

    I did find a journal listing a experiment where a blue diode with a Tem00 mode structure was overdriven with a nanosecond pulse, and used to threshold a dye. 320 mW of peak power got them 2 mW of peak yellow power for .5 nanosecond. The dye was in a structure that recirculated the pump light, but that DFB structure is impossible to make outside of a thin films lab, and probably cost 30-50 K$ of research time to make it.

    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 11-29-2010 at 13:55.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedgas View Post
    Jon, PM me off list about the 40 watt pcaom trick.
    Its cheaper/easier then you think.

    The reason the Scope-KTP dye will not run CW is triplet state quenching, the Laserscope dye design does not flow the dye fast enough for CW, but KTP in CW would pump a classic jet dye. There is a major difference operating parameters in in cell dye vs jet dye vs flash lamp pumped dye.

    Will 445 ever pump bulk dye?, No, most likely not with current 445 nm Diodes.

    1359/3 = 464 blue.. 1371/3 = 457 nm blue.

    Steve

    Thanks for that Steve, I must have been busy when the "dye-cell" info rolled in..

    I kinda "assumed" flourescent leaky beast.....

    My old one now needs new optics ... after sleeping behind a cupboard for 20yrs the alluminium on the mirrors is shot to hell and looking for new optics to revive a dinasoar......

    Cheers

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